Singing and Cursing, Slashing and Casting, and Severing Souls PvM (1-40) and PvP
PALE RIDER (Angel of Death) BY (in alphabetical order): I...Samphus & "Tyr" Templar
*Note to Readers: what happens when Tyr and Samphus, both self-professed admirers of Bard, join forces to build not just another (evil) fighting bard, but our shared vision of a high-performance, epic master-maestro? Our build we post for you below; but first we proudly present to you our character’s story (written by Tyr based on concept devised by Samphus, whose helpful review is also acknowledged).
WHEN DEATH KNOCKS: A New Leaf in Life By Deborah “Tyr” Templar
It was a dark and frozen night, and a mortal lay dying, surrounded by snow and ice, his blood gushing from mortal wounds he suffered but only a little while ago, and it reddened the snow. Shivering in the dark and eerie silence, in a dark and lifeless forest, he was now alone, having nothing but the snow and barren trees around him for company; he knew the end was near.
Death was all around him.
In immense pain, and unable to stop the bleeding, his weak and frozen hands clutched instead at his blood-soaked cloak, fastening it tightly, desperately, around his weak and aching body, in an effort to at least stop the biting cold. He was fast drifting off to unconsciousness, so very cold and alone, when something fell onto his head and startled him; it was a leaf, a moist and living leaf, but which had fallen from leafless trees, in the dead of winter. How could this be? He queried, and then he laughed. He took it as a sign of hope when suddenly, in the distance, very faint at first but getting louder, came the unmistakable sound of approaching horse steps.
He thought that he was dreaming, but it was no dream. Someone, or something, was approaching. Too weak to reach for his dagger, he reached out instead at his burlap sack which was filled with gold; gold he had earlier stolen from a merchant whose shop he had broken into, only to be subsequently stopped by a gang of highway robbers demanding his loot. When he refused their demands and elected to bolt through the forest in an effort to escape them instead, the robbers fired after him with their arrows. Although he had somehow managed to out wit and out run what he supposed to be nothing more than a mindless gang of marauding thieves, their arrows had hit their target, and he now lay dying in a pool of his own blood. Yet this sack of gold gave him comfort.
“Tah-ta-Tump, Tah-ta-Tump, Tah-ta-Tump . . .”
Struggling, so very weak, so very cold, he desperately reached out for the gold, his memories flashing back to when he was a child, born to a family of poor farmers who had toiled the rocky dirt in order to scratch out a bare subsistence for themselves.
“Tah-ta-Tump, Tah-ta-Tump ...”
As a boy, he was determined to do better in life than did his parents, who had worked themselves to the bone, dying long before their time and while he was still a child; it was then that he made a vow, promising himself that when he grew up, he would move to town and become a merchant, selling over-priced tools and farming implements to poor and hungry farmers, as the town merchant had done to his family and neighboring farmers; he vowed to carve out for himself a better living. But this was not to be his fate, for he found that he could carve out an even better living, a little luxury in fact, not by becoming a merchant, but rather by simply stealing from the merchants instead. And that is exactly what he did.
“Tah-ta-Tump ...”
He thought about this and the irony of it all while reaching for his sack of gold, when suddenly a hooded figure donning fine polished black leather boots appeared before him, standing directly between him and the gold.
“Get away,” the man cried out to the hooded rider. “It’s my gold, mine!”
Looking up at the stranger, he saw not a human, but a deathly-pale, hooded figure, with what appeared to be many eyes and many tongues. His horse, a large black steed, stood quietly beside its pale master, who held a scimitar in one of his hands, with what appeared to be an ancient book in the other; its pages were yellow and faded with time, but the book was otherwise in shiny, pristine condition. The dying man could not be certain of what he saw, however, since he was cold, terribly weak and nearing delirium after all; but the Pale Rider did not appear interested in the gold; of at least that the dying man was certain.
“I am Death, and I have come for you,” the stranger spoke, in a calm yet deep and gong-like booming voice.
“But I don’t want to die,” the mortal cried. “I’m not ready.”
“Ready?” the Pale Rider responded. “It is your time, and you will follow me.”
“Please, I’m not strong enough,” the mortal begged. “I’m afraid.”
The Pale Rider thought for a moment, looking down on the dying man, before responding: “Death has come to you, to release you from your pain. You are not strong enough for the pain, and Death will end your fears. In Death, there is no pain, no fear, and no hunger. Death is like gold, more sacks of gold than your frail, weakened soul can possibly imagine, since you’ll want for nothing. Death will release you from fear, from the insecurity and torment of this world. Do you like the pain? Do you like being afraid? Is it not Life that is to be feared? In Death, there is security, and there is peace.
“No, I am . . . I mean,” the mortal thought, confused, not knowing next what to say. “You are toying with me, confusing me, I do not want to live in pain, but I am afraid to die.”
“And did you not cause pain to the merchant whose gold you stole today, gold that was meant to provide food for his family, which you denied them, as you have similarly denied to so many others whom you so callously robbed?” the Pale Rider asked.
“But, but I was only trying to live, I meant them no harm,” the man retorted. “I needed to eat, and to feed myself, and to survive; I only did that which I needed to do, to survive. I . . . I didn’t hurt anyone.”
“Ah, but you did, by your actions, you have caused nothing but pain and suffering to other mortals, which you do not now deny,” the Pale Rider responded, while turning a page in the book he was holding. “Do you now deny that in Life you were cold, a cold hearted thief who caused nothing but misery and suffering; cold and suffering such that you are now feeling? Perhaps, it is fitting that I shall leave you to live as you are now, exactly and forever as you are, so very cold and in dire pain, eternal suffering without recovery, without release: a Life of nothing but pain, just as you are.”
“No, I don’t want to suffer. I don’t want this pain, this dreadful aching and terrible pain. Please, please don’t leave me to suffer,” the mortal cried. “I didn’t hurt anyone. Why do I now feel so much pain? Please, if you can, release me from my pain. End my suffering.”
At that, the Pale Rider smiled and closed his book, raising instead his scimitar. The mortal man watched, in sudden horror, as the Pale Rider flashed his teeth, which were more like fangs, and they glistened on catching a glimpse of the moon light.
“I shall do as you command, mortal” the Pale Rider laughed. “You have been judged by me, whose duty it is to judge. In the book of Life and Death, which I hold in my hands, it is written that you were a bad person in Life and, therefore, in severing your soul, I shall release you from Life, but only after I rip out your soul in such a way as to cause you the utmost excruciating pain; a pain you have never known before in Life, and shall for all eternity remember in Death,” Pale Rider continued, while lowering his scimitar onto the flesh of the horrified mortal.
“I am Death, and I have come for your soul ….”
Edited By TyrTemplar on 10/25/06 06:08
Presenting … Pale Rider (the Angel of Death) By (in alphabetical order): I…Samphus and TyrTemplar
Combining our forces, we worked hard and long, searching high and low, for the Angel of Death and managed to convince him/her to make an appearance on the boards; this, to bring you the undeniable – and undispellable – casting, singing and cursing power of an epic level bard, having the panoply of immunities (and defense) of pale master, and also the dark blessings and combat prowess of blackguard … in other words, Pale Rider,the Angel of Death.
Strengths and Weaknesses: while not the sole member of its kind in terms of the class combo chosen, Pale Rider differs from the eight others in at least 3 important respects: 1) this is a “laster” who achieves his/her LI power right out of the epic gate (most useful both solo and as a member of any party); and 2) s/he has not just a fighting bard’s (very good/highly buffable) combat prowess, but one that is bolstered by exceptional taunting power. Finally (but not lastly) this fighting laster is the first of his/her kind to be undispellable!
That said, Pale Rider’s saves and HPs could be better, but are decent (and also buffable by his/her ample access to sixth level bard spells, epic bard song/curse song, and also UMD, not to mention the BG Dark Blessings and PM immunities); no matter which way you sever that soul, accordingly, this character makes (we believe) for a high performance maestro, being non-dispelable and immune (among others) to crit. hits and sneaks, and having the potential to cause some rather exciting damage of differing types.
Without further adieu, please meet the Pale Rider (Angel of Death)
Pale Rider (the Angel of Death) – Overview Bard(26), Pale Master(10), Blackguard(4) Human / Chaotic or Neutral Evil (Theme: Chaotic Evil)
I. Character Attributes: STR: 16 (30) DEX: 8 CON: 14 WIS: 8 INT: 12 CHA: 16
II. Level Guide Level Guide 01: Bard(1): power attack, cleave 02: Bard(2) 03: Bard(3): extend spell 04: Bard(4): STR+1, (STR=17) 05: Bard(5) 06: Bard(6): blind fight 07: Bard(7) 08: Bard(8): STR+1, (STR=18) 09: Blackguard(1): weapon focus: scimitar 10: Blackguard(2): {Smite Good} 11: Bard(9) 12: Blackguard(3): STR+1, still spell, (STR=19) 13: Bard(10) 14: Bard(11) 15: Bard(12): toughness 16: Bard(13): STR+1, (STR=20) 17: Blackguard(4) 18: Bard(14): curse song 19: Bard(15) 20: Bard(16): STR+1, (STR=21) 21: Bard(17): epic weapon focus: scimitar 22: Bard(18) 23: Bard(19) 24: Bard(20): STR+1, lasting inspiration, (STR=22) 25: Pale Master(1) 26: Pale Master(2) 27: Pale Master(3): epic prowess, {Darkvision} 28: Pale Master(4): STR+1, (STR=23) 29: Pale Master(5) 30: Pale Master(6): great strength I, (STR=24) 31: Pale Master(7) 32: Pale Master(8): STR+1, (STR=25) 33: Pale Master(9): great strength II, (STR=26) 34: Pale Master(10) 35: Bard(21) 36: Bard(22): STR+1, great strength III, (STR=28) 37: Bard(23): epic skill focus: perform 38: Bard(24) 39: Bard(25): great strength IV, (STR=29) 40: Bard(26): STR+1, epic skill focus: taunt, (STR=30) --
III. Skillpoints (230) Concentration 38(40) Hide 5(4)* (BG Prereq.) Perform 43(56), +9 Song Spellcraft 24(25), +9 Song Taunt 43(56) (+9/+12 Song / +12 Curse) Tumble 40(39) UMD 37(40)
Note: Song adds +9 all skills (+12 w. Eagle’s)/Curse reduces all enemies’ skills by -12 --
IV. The Basics
a. Hitpoints: 394 (428 Song, Eagle’s)
b. Saving Throws Fort: 24 (28 w. Eagle’s, Song) Will: 23 (30 w. Eagle’s, Owl’s, Song) Reflex: 23 (29 w. Eagle’s, Cat’s, Song)
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +5 (+6/+7 Song)
Other: BG Dark Blessing (adds Cha. Bonus to All Saves, enhance w. Eagle’s, etc.); Immunities – Pale Master: critical hits, sneak attacks, stun, hold and paralysis; Bard: mind-effects (clarity), elemental resistance (energy buffer), etc.
V. Combat Vitals (Mundane Scimitar):
a. Attack Bonus BAB: 26, Natural AB: 40 (No Buffs) +2 Bard Song +5 Curse Song (reduces enemy AC) +6 Taunt (reduces enemy AC) +4-5 Stacking Bard & BG Bull’s +2 War Cry +5 Greater Magic Weapon -- AB (Self-Buffed, Hasted): +65/61/56/51/65 +5 Smite Bonus (w. Eagle’s), or: Total: AB +70
Capped AB (assuming +20 weaponry and Str./Cha. capped): AB +86
b. Damage (mundane scimitar): 1d6 +10 (crit: 18-20/x2); Keen: 16-20/x2 +5 GMW +4-5 Stacking Bull’s +2 War Cry +3 Bard Song +4 BG Smite Damage -- +1d6 BG Sneak Damage -- + Haste and Keen
c. Other Damage (examples only): • Curse Song (34 Damage, all enemies in area or effect) • Bard Ice (3d6 Bludgeon, +11d6 Cold, or: 84 Damage all enemies in area effect) • Wounding Whispers (1d6 +26 “on hit” Sonic) • In addition, can call in / summon reinforcements (i.e., graft arm, create undead, etc.)
VI. Defense Vitals: 23 AC (naked) +8 mundane plate +3 mundane shield -- 34 AC +4 Haste +5 Song +4 Mage Armor +2 Cat's Grace +2 Curse Song (lowers enemy AB) ------ 51 AC (Does NOT include any Magical Equipment)
In addition, has access to: ghostly visage, displacement (50-% concealment), darkness, improved invisibility, etc. (see, spell casting, below)
VIII. Other Abilities: o Use Poison o Create Undead, Turn undead (5+2d6), Summon Greater Undead
Edited By TyrTemplar on 10/25/06 06:01
I'd get the Divine Feats maybe. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Quote: Posted 10/25/06 12:34 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
I'd get the Divine Feats maybe.
Maybe Divine Might. The only feat I see that could be tossed would be Extend. I'd probably still keep Toughness. Unless I gave it up for Empowered. Empowered would probably go better with Divine Might.
But, on the other hand, I think it's fine as is. I don't think this character lacks in any way. I think some would be tempted to drop 6 Bard levels for 6 PM levels for +4AC and Epic Warding. But we got lots of those already. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
This might be a stupid question.... Why no Discipline?
This might be a stupid question.... Why no Discipline?
*raises hand*
I know, I know! Oooo, oooh, pick me, pick me! _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
I agree with taking Divine Might. In many worlds where you have access to cha gear you can easily cap cha at 28, making the DM work with a +9 bonus. That's especially easy if you can empower eagle's splendor.
I play a character quite similar to this on Anchorome PW, still only Bard/BG and currently at lvl 18. I have chosen Still spell as metamagic. I just hate the stripping routine before casting. After you have reached 14-15 bard lvls the only spells you really need to extend are the short term buffs you cast when running into battle, and at that time I really don't want to strip. _________________ The curve is more powerful than the sword -- BG courtesan
Edited By Mick Dagger on 10/25/06 15:31
Similar builds aren't posted anymore?
Quote: Posted 10/25/06 17:01 (GMT) -- Bearke
Similar builds aren't posted anymore?
Didn't occur to you that you might do it, if you know one? _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Here we go:
Hell’s Jester /Bard 20/Blackguard 4/Pale Master 16 by Bearke Paragon Of Vice /Bard 16/Blackguard 8/PM 16 by FinneousPJ
Deb, please, don't forget it next time!
Cheers, Kail _________________
Quote: Posted 09/25/06 11:58:10 (GMT) by xitooner
I find its better to be flexible, THINK, and know your enemy.
Thanks, Finn, GD, everyone (on behalf of Samphus and myself)
Oh, the excitement -- how wonderful! Just a quick note (I'm at work at the moment, severing those souls) but just wanted to address quickly the issue as to so-called builds, and promise that Samphus and I will get back to everyone on all those great comments and questions (thanks, again).
Kail, actually, we didn't forget, as there aren't any similar builds to ours. None. As we stated at the outset, while there are seven (7) other builds that use the same class combo (plus my recent Minstrel of Doom which makes for eight (8) total), none of them (with the exception of my recent Minstrel) are solo fighting bards. Not a one.
(Well, with the exception perhaps of Finn’s cool Paragon of Vice, who set out not to create an undispellable AB monster, but an AC monster instead – a very different build from this one (and my Minstrel); at only 16 bard, Paragon's also not a laster like our Rider is; ah but it ‘tis a cool angle, Finn, and we do likes )
That said, there are only two other lasters, namely: my recent Minstrel of Doom (a combat bard with the usual, attendant feats, but no esf: taunt, and at only 20 bard he is subject to dispel, unlike the Pale Rider, and thus quite different); the only other laster is Bearke’s Hell’s Jester, which is a cool PvM build, with only 38 ab, no taunt power, and also fully subject to dispel (at only 20 bard and no LI until the very end), it is (as Bearke says): “a party player, not a loner” -- & looks fun
Will be back .... just as soon as I (we) deliver this soul
ps. great to see you, Finn!
Edited By TyrTemplar on 10/25/06 19:50
i have to admit, i am also curious. why not discipline for a solo char?
i have to admit, i am also curious. why not discipline for a solo char?
-cs
*jumps up and down raising hand*
Oooo, ooooh, I know, I know! Pick me, pick me!
Yes, Griz, is there something you'd like to tell the class?
*picks GD*
Solid battle-bard, very nice. Strong offensively and defensively both. And eeeeeeevil. Always a plus. And right on time for halloween. Good job!
I might be one of the few who'd argue against divine might, though in this character's case, you'd probably benefit from the added damage over shield's added AC. The divine might/shield feats are tricky to figure out if they are worth it or not, because of their limited durations and limited uses/day. And they both pull those uses/day from the same pool. And Might still needs a decent AB to matter or you'll just miss with its extra damage - but charisma builds where it'd do a ton of damage, don't have good AB).
Non-cha builds (like this one) will usually benefit more from Shield IMO, because increasing your AC by +9 will help you avoid more damage than +9 to damage will help you deal, but this build already has a high AC... so it's a good candidate for Might.
Extend Spell probably does less for you than Still Spell would, turning away from the divine feat discussion - with 26 caster levels your buffs will last long enough for most people to be quite happy with them. Still spell, however, will let you cast Stilled Mind Fog, Stilled Cloud of Bewilderment, and Stilled Cure Critical Wounds... as some examples.
EDIT - I also have a pretty good idea about why there's no discipline _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Prof. Tyr, seeing student's hand in the air, about to fall out of his chair: Yes, GD?
Edit-thanks, Xylo (from both myself and Samphus, who will be responding shortly; and yes, still spell is def. a must, indeed! Never take a battle-bard out w.o it, we agree (and why it's there at level 12 Ah, but first, we must let GD respond, we just must .... just way too much fun (thanks, guys)
Prof. Tyr, seeing student's hand in the air, about to fall out of his chair: Yes, GD?
A-hem! Thank you. There are several reasons why Discipline was left from the build.
1. The most obvious was that she ran out of skill points. Builds look sexier if they have Taunt, UMD, TUmble, etc., all maxed out.
2. But my real guess is that Discipline was given the boot since it is probably the most easy to simulate, of all the skills, via a magic item that grants Knockdown Immunity--something that I've seen ranging from high to low magic environments. Granted Disarm and Called Shot would still be a factor, but not so popular by bad guys in PvM.
3. The 3rd possible answer is she simply forgot. I'm still going with #2.
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
GD, no. 2 is def. a factor, but not quite the answer (ie., there are indeed many items out there providing immunity to knock, thus makin' disc. of all skills the easiest to compensate for in most environs, you're most right on that, and oh so close We made a delliberate choice, w. a certain something in mind
As to taunt and UMD, it's not only "sexy" but practical -firstly, having a taunt check of over 80 (as against a conc. check, being a skill melee'rs not only just don't take, but some can't skill in it even if they want (ie WM); taunt not only fits the build theme, but ESF taunt (add epic song + curse) is for us a guaranteed +6 AB (by lowering enemy AC). Tumble and UMD both are just plain necessary; & w. UMD max'd like this, can use everything in the game. Of course, with high AC, 50-% concealment, not to mention improved invisibility ...
But, hmmm, apart and aside from all that, as to disc. ... can anyone think of a situation, any situation at all, where we might not actually want to fully buff up, and invite a knock?
*OK, Xylo - explain it to the class*
Edited By TyrTemplar on 10/26/06 01:08
My answer is that you've got a high AC and improved invisibility, and immunity to sneak attacks.
Knockdowns, called shots, disarms and so forth all impose a -4 (or worse) penalty to the attack roll, so the odds are you're only going to get hit, by the average enemy, on a 20 anyway. And that 20 also has to beat your improved invisibility... I'm not sure how that would work with blindfighting, in fact - would it have to roll a 20 twice in a row if the first roll failed its concealment check?
Either way... the odds of a discipline-checking attack actually hitting you is pretty low, and you still get to roll your strength bonus vs their hit, so it's conceiveable you might resist it on that 20-hit if it does land.
Further, the drawbacks of being hit with a KD are fairly minor because of your immunity to sneak attacks and the likelihood that even after you're KD'd, more KDs won't hit you so you'll spend 1 round down then get up and continue fighting.
Lastly... well, you might want to scroll buff with recipricol damage shields and let people beat on you intentionally. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
In spite of AC and PM immunities, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Discipline. There's the entire pre-epic portion of the career which is completely vulnerable, and the PM portion doesn't really kick until the 30s. While you can still squeak by in some environs without it, there are a some you won't. Perhaps some Discipline investment pre-epic, or until you got LI, would be wise in this situation. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Any decent archer will have "Called Shot" and spam it at you. So, you'll be moving real slow or take AB penalties.
Otherwise, I love the build. The beaty of this forum is that you can easily tweek any of the build here and customize for your settings.
Just wanted to thank you and the many others whom have posted their builds here. You're the only reason I still have NWN installed on my PC.
Any decent archer will have "Called Shot" and spam it at you. So, you'll be moving real slow or take AB penalties.
Otherwise, I love the build. The beaty of this forum is that you can easily tweek any of the build here and customize for your settings.
Just wanted to thank you and the many others whom have posted their builds here. You're the only reason I still have NWN installed on my PC.
Brings tears to my eyes, it does It's good to know someone cares for what we do! _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Well forgive my late arrival! Time has been at a premium this week.
Nice to see such an active response to this one, we had a lot of fun sorting this one out. Got to hand it to Deb though, she sure has a way with words.
We had started with Divine Might originally, but had overlooked Curse Song, which is a must in any Bard heavy build. The extra 3 (to 9 with CHA boost) divine damage was nice, but bearing in mind the build is STR based, with a stackable Bulls STR, Bard buffable with early LI and Power Attack too we did feel there was enough damage output to lose that little extra. Bearing in mind with Haste, you've got 5 APR anyway. On a personal note, 9 rounds is not a very long duration IMO.
As to Discipline, if you can find a way of boosting your starting INT to 14, without sacrificing anything else in the build, I'd like to hear it. Believe me it was difficult. Something had to give unfortunately, that was the safest option really.
Thanks to all for the comments and critique.
Samphus, welcome: was wondering when you'd get around to popping by our build
Indeed: Disc. was the skill to go, the least necessary (and in fact, totally unnecessary in the overall scheme of things, in light of high AC, PM immunities, improved invis, etc. etc. etc., as Xylo points out (*tossing Xylo a soul* and to GD a soul as well for his response, (although, really GD, me thinks you worry too much (you know we appreciate you for it!!!)
Remember, though, this one's sneak immune and, with 26 bard (that be some nice wounding whispers), and not just imp. invis, but also displacement. Also, by level 12 has all his 3rd level spells in tact (i.e., all the major buffs, and also displacement (50% concealment which can't be purged), invisibility sphere, and wounding whispers! Now, combine this with his access to UMD, and ethereal visage (concealment + DR 20/+3, etc. etc ... well, we told you that this one was "evil"
Seriously though, as is the case with all characters, it will always necessarily depend on one's particular world and play style, and players should of course feel free to adjust. Once again, we appreciate all the great interest, comments & critiques on this one: thank you!
And Anguish, a special thanks also to you for your most kind words about Samphus' and my build: it is players like you that are the reason why we build (and it is Samphus and my sincere pleasure to be able to do so -- please do enjoy, and a happy, happy Ol' Hallow's Eve to you (and to all): thanks everyone! ~ Deb "Tyr" Templar
Edited By TyrTemplar on 10/28/06 08:36
I know this is an old post but it's new to me so....
Why not drop CON by 2 to start and add it to INT, thereby allowing for a maxed DISC skill? I hate being KD'd and I firmly believe DISC is the most important skill of all.
Just my 2 cents.
Quote: Posted 05/26/07 19:38 (GMT) -- Markus Tarek
I know this is an old post but it's new to me so....
Why not drop CON by 2 to start and add it to INT, thereby allowing for a maxed DISC skill? I hate being KD'd and I firmly believe DISC is the most important skill of all.
Just my 2 cents.
Well, read the thread, it's been thoroughly discussed in 10+ posts. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
It's good to know someone cares for what we do!
