This build does involve an Alignment change. It can easily be integrated into a back story (captured and converted Spy). This build takes advantage of 3 stackable buffs. Bull Strength from BG and Dex/Cha from the Harper Scout. This should be nice on a low magic world in order to reach the +12 cap on Stat buffs.
It has the following advantages:
IKD Dev Crit Unarmed DC 39 Stunning fist DC 31 SR 32 Speed +70% 4d6 Sneak attack Immune to mind spells 50% concealment Smite Good Improved Evasion Dark Blessing + 2 Eagle Spleaders = much better saves Better damage than a regular Monk (smite/sneak) Glowing Evil eyes!
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Cons:
Not the best Monk AC around due to being a STR based Monk. Not the best smiter around.
=========== First M/BG/HS build according to Pulse Cap! woot!
Comments are welcome and invited.
Why are you taking your HS levels pre-epic? Take them post-epic for the EPIC FEATS.
Interesting, though I have to say your AC is low, you'll barely be able to increase it unless you play in a high magical world and you will fight naked (it bugs my mind that you state armor/shield AC), I once made a similar build, Monk/BG/WM, and even though he killed fast the AC was brutally low, a little bit lower than this... resisting damage might be possible to you thanks to the Concealment. Harper Scout isn't adding much in here, your CHA is very low and your DEX is not protected by some Uncanny Dodge, so I don't find much power reason for HS other than flavor.
But I won't tell you to drop HS, that's just boring, to improve your HS profit I recommend, as avarielo, to take HS is epics, you gain 1 BAB and you can take 2 Great CHA as bonus feats for +1 saves and +1 smite AB instead of Favored Enemies, I'd also drop initial DEX to 8 to increase CON and CHA to 14, +80 HP, -2 reflex, +3 fortitude, +1 will, +1 AB on smite and -3 AC (AC is already too low, HP will protect you more at this rate methinks), now that you have 14 CHA you can also change Extra Smiting (or you chose something else, like Luck of Heroes) for Divine Might and make even more damage (you'll end with 16 CHA, which isn't too bad, and now your HS CHA buff will get a considerably practical use), kill faster to avoid recieving damage is the best way not to die when you use this kind of low AC builds.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 01/18/07 04:15
The HS was taken pre-epic because this was mainly a theme build. A Good Spy Gone Bad. There is only one Alignment transition (From LG to LE). I didn't want to flip flop Alignments to much. I wanted to start off Good, and end on an Evil note.
With the double Eagle Splender and Double Cat Grace I thought it could make up for the lack of initial stat.
Dex boost of (1d4 +1) + (1d4+1) = 4 to 10 increase. Wisdom for another 2-5
HS has a 3/4 attack rate which isn't to bad really. My AB is 16 @ lvl 20.
I don't think I can change Luck of Heroes for Divine Might since that feat is not open to Monks.
The tradeoff with having more CHA and less STR is hard of course. Do I sacrifice AB/Damage and Dev Crit DC for more smite damage (limit on use per day) and a few more save points? *shrug* pros and cons for each.
I don't think dropping DEX to 8 is a good idea since that would be a 3AC deduction and 3 less Reflex save (improved Evasion is still in this build).
The chance to get 12 more dex is pretty good because of the stacking so that would raise dex to (potentially) 26.
(quote) wiki
A monk wearing armor loses their Wisdom and level based armor class bonuses, their movement speed, and their additional unarmed attacks per round. [\quote]
You could always put some armor on and still be a dev crit puncher. I would not recommend it.
Any Str based Monk will lack AC compared to the Dex Based one.
Harper Scout class was selected for style points and to take advantage of the stacking stat spells. It takes away 5 very handy levels from either Monk of BG, that is true. But it does add it's own flare to the build concept.
+2 on saves for 5 rounds Invisibility +2 saves vs traps +2 saves vs mind affecting (until you become immune of course)
Hitpoints are pretty darn low, I guess he can run out of battle and use a heal kit or two. His skill at healing is good.
Quote: Posted 01/18/07 06:28 (GMT) -- Bromium
The HS was taken pre-epic because this was mainly a theme build. A Good Spy Gone Bad. There is only one Alignment transition (From LG to LE). I didn't want to flip flop Alignments to much. I wanted to start off Good, and end on an Evil note.
You could also start Monk20, then 5HS, then top out with BG and 2 more Monk. Still good gone bad, plus you get 2 extra epic bonus feats. Still just 1 alignment change. Also get all of the Monk goodness going early for you, too, like speed, SR, Improved Evasion, AC and Empty Body.
Or you could go bad to good, and go 12Monk/8BG, then 2 more BG, followed by all Monk and HS. You would end up being Monk25/HS5/BG10. You swap the BG bonus feat with a Monk bonus feat, and still get 2 epic bonus feats and only 1 alignment change-- say L/N to L/E.
I'm not suggesting a change, just alternatives for those who would like to get those Epic Bonus Feats. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
A 20th level Monk get's glowing eyes based on Alignment. Do they change color when his alignment changes?
The 20 Monk + 5 HS + 13 BG + 2 Monk does meet the one shift only criteria and provides more Epic feats. Worth pondering.
I guess I just had in mind the "stacking" effect of the Str, Dex and Cha buffs were an advantage that should be taken sooner rather than later. But than again, those Epic Harper Scout feats are tempting too...
Quote: Posted 01/18/07 16:08 (GMT) -- Bromium
A 20th level Monk get's glowing eyes based on Alignment. Do they change color when his alignment changes?
That's a really good question. It would be too cool if it did. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
They do.
Quote: The HS was taken pre-epic because this was mainly a theme build. A Good Spy Gone Bad. There is only one Alignment transition (From LG to LE). I didn't want to flip flop Alignments to much. I wanted to start off Good, and end on an Evil note.
Ok, Alignment changes is a decent reason... but not one that can't be sorted out.
Quote: With the double Eagle Splender and Double Cat Grace I thought it could make up for the lack of initial stat.
Dex boost of (1d4 +1) + (1d4+1) = 4 to 10 increase. Wisdom for another 2-5
Sure, but Divine Might makes your CHA buff like 5 times more profitable, and I repeat that you can be flanked easily so I would trust more HP than DEX AC, it won't be considerably less playable as you'll have more Monk pre-epic and Monk is a good growth class as for playability.
Quote: HS has a 3/4 attack rate which isn't to bad really. My AB is 16 @ lvl 20.
I never said it was bad, I said it can be improved, I'm a powerbuilder, so I'm kind of psychotic about maxing stats
Quote: I don't think I can change Luck of Heroes for Divine Might since that feat is not open to Monks.
If you don't take luck of heroes you simply move all the feats into lower levels and take Divine Might at a Blackguard level, no problem about it.
Quote: The tradeoff with having more CHA and less STR is hard of course. Do I sacrifice AB/Damage and Dev Crit DC for more smite damage (limit on use per day) and a few more save points? *shrug* pros and cons for each.
I don't think dropping DEX to 8 is a good idea since that would be a 3AC deduction and 3 less Reflex save (improved Evasion is still in this build).
The chance to get 12 more dex is pretty good because of the stacking so that would raise dex to (potentially) 26.
I agree, do not lower STR for CHA, that's why I suggested to lower DEX. Improved Evasion works to avoid half damage when the save fails, it isn't completely bad, it is a downside to lower Reflex, yeah, but your overall saves would end higher you will of course not lose DEX buffs. BTW you would lose only 1 Reflex not 3 since you're increasing ending base CHA to 16 (+2 to all saves) but you would lose the 3 AC.
Anyway, I don't have to make you change your build, I just thought that those changes will make it stronger, but you can ignore my ranting at any point.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 01/19/07 01:44
Thax, your build comments are always welcome and appreciated. I always find myself having to re-look at builds from others viewpoint.
I am not a strong Paladin builder. My niche is Shifters. This and Torm's Envoy were two builds that I had in mind. This build was to be the evil version of Torm's Envoy.
you will of course not lose DEX buffs. BTW you would lose only 1 Reflex not 3 since you're increasing ending base CHA to 16 (+2 to all saves) but you would lose the 3 AC.