This is my first build, so I am sure it could use the advice of more experienced builders. The object was to get a powerful spellcaster with some good innate defensive capabilities and saving throws. A paladin could be taken to much the same effect without needing cleave or 5 cross-classed ranks in hide, but it would be far less entertaining RP-wise IMO and it would also be harder to work in tumble without a late game disposition switch.
From an RP perspective you can have a lot of fun with the whole evil sorcerer/anti-paladin bit. And the rogue level at the end may be a bit cheesy, but I have an explanation. After rising through the ranks of the Black Chain Knights, our sorcerer achieved his final victory through betrayal of the then lord, anticipating that his Dark God would be pleased rather than angered at the plotted destruction of his supposedly "favored" minion. Our sorcerer was of course correct, and the Dark God(of your choice) bestowed upon him a final blessing and the rank of Arch-Lord of the Black Chain Knights. Yay. Enough with the justifications, and on with the build.
Similar builds:
Arcane Blackguard of Vhaeraun (Sor 37 / BG 2 / Bard 1)by Zhoreb. All credit to my build goes to this thread. The build itself and the following comments are really what I am basing this character off of. Still, there are some very key differences in leveling and feat progression, and I feel that this build adds enough changed content to be listed as a seperate build.
Divine Evil (Sorcerer 35/Blackguard 3/Assassin 2) by Killer Kensai. A similar build as far as level distribution goes, to be sure, but there are many key differences.
Accursed Magus (SOR 34/ROG 3/BG 3)by Cinnabar Dun. Well, I saw this after writing out this build, and I must say that the similarities make a seperate build a bit superfluous. Still, like the builds previous, my feat progression and leveling works out a bit differently. Hopefully different enough that some will see the merit in a different, if similar, build.
Alright, now I'm really done with the justifications.
Race: Human Alignment: Any Evil Levels: 1-40 PvM, PvP - I am somewhat new to this, so you may be a better judge of where to use this build.
1 1S: Expertise, Imp expertise 2 2S: 3 3S: Power Attack 4 4S: 5 5S: 6 6S: Extend Spell 7 7S: 8 8S: 9 9S: Maximise Spell 10 10S: 11 11S: 12 12S: Empower Spell 13 13S: 14 14S: 15 15S: Cleave 16 15S/1BG: 17 15S/2BG: 18 16S/2BG: Still Spell 19 17S/2BG: 20 18S/2BG: 21 19S/2BG: Auto Still Spell I 22 20S/2BG: 23 21S/2BG: AutoSS II 24 22S/2BG: AutoSS III 25 23S/2BG: 26 24S/2BG: ES-Epic Warding 27 25S/2BG: Greater Charisma I 28 26S/2BG: 29 27S/2BG: GC II 30 28S/2BG: GC III 31 29S/2BG: 32 30S/2BG: GC IV 33 31S/2BG: GC V 34 32S/2BG: 35 33S/2BG: GC VI 36 33S/3BG: Divine Shield 37 33S/3BG/1R: 38 34S/3BG/1R: 39 35S/3BG/1R: GC VII 40 36S/3BG/1R: GC VIII
*The Great Charisma feats are largely interchangable. If you wish to have spell focus in a school or more epic spells, feats such as GC and Maximise Spell are a good place to start. Charisma even ends up on an odd number so you wouldn't be sacrificing much to get a single extra epic spell if you feel you need it, though keep in mind that odd number can be good for Eagle's Splendor.
BAB: 18 Sor + 3 BG = 21(?) You should have three attacks, as BAB should be +11 at Lvl 20 (9 sor + 2 BG), if I calculated that right, that is. . .
Lets face it, with 18 pre-epic levels of sorcerer you're going to need some outside help to hit anyone with decent AC consistantly. Especially if you're using Imp Expertise like you ought to.
Saving Throws, no boosts:
Fortitude: 6 Sor + 3 BG + 9 Epic + 11 Char + 2 Con = 31 Reflex: 6 Sor + 9 Epic + 11 Char - 1 Dex = 25 Will: 11 Sor + 9 Epic + 11 Char - 1 Will = 30
Buffs like Cat's Grace, Owl's Wisdom, etc ought to help even further, and the obligatory Eagle's Splendor will boost all of them 2-3 points. With proper buffs and equipment you should shrug off any half-hearted attempts against your saving throws, and they should give you at least something of a fighting chance to make a save against the real specialists. It would be nice to have a really excellent throw in there, but all around they're not too bad.
HP: 36x6(sor) + 3x12(BG) + 8 (rogue) = 260
With 36 total levels of sorcerer focusing on Charisma, what do you expect? Getting hit will hurt, but between your AC, saves, Epic Warding, spell mantle, and other spells hopefully you can avoid getting smacked around too much.
Skills: 174 total
Hide: 5, cross classed. Take these before you get to your BG levels, of course. Concentration:42 Spellcraft: 43 Tumble: 40 Discipline: 39
I went for the most directly defensive choices possible. Rogues have access to UMD, and Blackguards have access to taunt, so if either of those appeal to you you may want to consider exchanging points in discipline and/or concentration to get taunt or UMD up to an appropriate level.
AC: 10 base + 8 plate + 3 TShield + 8 Tumble + 10 expertise - 1 dex= 38 AC without buffs or enchantments.
38 AC + 2 dex + 14 divine shield + 5 natural armor + 5 deflection + 5 enchanted armor + 5 enchanted shield = 74 AC with some basic buffs and good enchanted equipment.
Not too shabby. If you really feel the need for more than 1 divine shield spell you will need to rework the BG levels to give yourself an extra turning feat. Hardcore warriors will still be able to hit you, of course, but hardcore warriors rarely have great will saves .
Anyway, I think that about covers it. Now watch as it is taken apart .
A nice build, to be certain. I play a build similar to this on my PW, except 35 Sorceror, 4 BG, 1 Rogue. The 4th Blackguard is taken so I can net divine shield pre-epic.
Some things to consider:
Taking 2nd Rogue nets you evasion, while 36th Sorceror only gains 1 level on SR checks, dispell checks, and spell durations.
Certainly drop at least one Great Charisma feat for Greater Ruin, Hellball, or Epic Mage Armor. Having an odd number of charisma is not useful. Epic Mage Armor may be favorable on PWs that do not have +5 gear, or even worlds with a +5 cap on equipment, so that you can wear non-AC items, further increasing saves, etc.
Taking Monk over Rogue would be favorable IMO, since you do not even use UMD. You could take one Monk pre-epic and remove the need for cleave, freeing up a feat of your choice. The second could be taken at 37+ to max discipline/tumble(40).
Finally, you should note that on most modules, expertise/improved expertise casting is disabled.
Hmm, two levels of monk is actually an excellent idea. With two monk levels I could grab all three blackguard levels and divine shield pre-epic, which would shift my freed up feat from cleave to an epic feat, which I could use to grab greater ruin maybe(mage armor doesn't seem all that useful with good AC equipment and divine shield). Then I could get both discipline and tumble on the monk level right at then end as you suggested, so I wouldn't need that late blackguard level. Thanks, that's just the creative advice I was looking for.
I didn't know about expertise not working while casting. I saw a number of build suggesting it, and no one before that I saw said as much . Oh, well I'll just have to keep that in mind.
Edited By Stuflames on 03/09/07 23:36
Quote: Posted 03/09/07 23:27 (GMT) -- Stuflames
I didn't know about expertise not working while casting. I saw a number of build suggesting it, and no one before that I saw said as much . Oh, well I'll just have to keep that in mind.
Bioware default allows you to cast in expertise/improved expertise afaik, but a lot of mods you come by have it disabled.
Quote: Epic Mage Armor may be favorable on PWs that do not have +5 gear, or even worlds with a +5 cap on equipment, so that you can wear non-AC items, further increasing saves, etc.
Whoops, I totally missed that line, and that was a good point too. I'll have to think about it.
So, using mantis3's advice, I've come up with this:
Human, Lawful Evil
1 Monk: Expertise, Imp Expertise 2-15 Sor: Still Spell, Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Maximise Spell 16-18 BG: Divine Shield 19-20 Sor: 21-36 ESor: Auto SS-I, II, III, ESpell: Epic Warding, Epic Mages armor, GC-I, II, III, IV, V, VI 37 EMonk: 38-40 ESor: GC-VII, VIII
Again, the Greater Charisma feats are easily substituted. I suppose the saving boosts are increased a bit too by the monk levels. I think Monk also works better than rogue from an RP perspective.
Quote: Posted 03/10/07 03:16 (GMT) -- Stuflames
So, using mantis3's advice, I've come up with this:
Human, Lawful Evil
1 Monk: Expertise, Imp Expertise 2-15 Sor: Still Spell, Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Maximise Spell 16-18 BG: Divine Shield 19-20 Sor: 21-36 ESor: Auto SS-I, II, III, ESpell: Epic Warding, Epic Mages armor, GC-I, II, III, IV, V, VI 37 EMonk: 38-40 ESor: GC-VII, VIII
Again, the Greater Charisma feats are easily substituted. I suppose the saving boosts are increased a bit too by the monk levels. I think Monk also works better than rogue from an RP perspective.
Looks good, but you lack Power Attack which is a pre-req. for Divine Shield. As I only see 4 feats from 2-15 Sorceror, I'd assume your fifth is Power Attack.
Wow, nice catch. I guess sometimes two wrongs really can make a right.
Quote: Posted 03/09/07 22:44 (GMT) -- Stuflames
This is my first build, so I am sure it could use the advice of more experienced builders. The object was to get a powerful spellcaster with some good innate defensive capabilities and saving throws. A paladin could be taken to much the same effect without needing cleave or 5 cross-classed ranks in hide, but it would be far less entertaining RP-wise IMO and it would also be harder to work in tumble without a late game disposition switch.
From an RP perspective you can have a lot of fun with the whole evil sorcerer/anti-paladin bit. And the rogue level at the end may be a bit cheesy, but I have an explanation. After rising through the ranks of the Black Chain Knights, our sorcerer achieved his final victory through betrayal of the then lord, anticipating that his Dark God would be pleased rather than angered at the plotted destruction of his supposedly "favored" minion. Our sorcerer was of course correct, and the Dark God(of your choice) bestowed upon him a final blessing and the rank of Arch-Lord of the Black Chain Knights. Yay. Enough with the justifications, and on with the build.
Since when did Rogue get an alignment restriction? Disposition switch for paladin??? hmm..
I know you are new here, but several months ago we had a discussion on pal/rogues. People seem to have the idea that rogues cannot be LG. This isnt true!! Rogue is a class that is so diverse, unlike blackguard. THe whole thing with rogue is that the class allows freedom to do anything you want, hence no alignment restriction. Oh, your idea is that because they get pickpocket they must be neutral or evil?? LOL
Rog/pals are VERY rpable. You just have to let go of your narrow idea of what a rogue is. I am not sure if you can even find Finn's post he did a long time ago, but he posted a link to a website that askd questions to help see what kind of dnd class you would be (rl). You just got posted by a lg pal/rogue
Good point, but either way I think I'll be going monk now for purposes of this build. Still, I'll keep that in mind.
Quote: Posted 03/09/07 22:44 (GMT) -- Stuflames
1 1S: Expertise, Imp expertise 2 2S: 3 3S: Power Attack 4 4S: 5 5S: 6 6S: Extend Spell 7 7S: 8 8S: 9 9S: Maximise Spell 10 10S: 11 11S: 12 12S: Empower Spell 13 13S: 14 14S: 15 15S: Cleave 16 15S/1BG: 17 15S/2BG: 18 16S/2BG: Still Spell 19 17S/2BG: 20 18S/2BG: 21 19S/2BG: Auto Still Spell I 22 20S/2BG: 23 21S/2BG: AutoSS II 24 22S/2BG: AutoSS III 25 23S/2BG: 26 24S/2BG: ES-Epic Warding 27 25S/2BG: Greater Charisma I 28 26S/2BG: 29 27S/2BG: GC II 30 28S/2BG: GC III 31 29S/2BG: 32 30S/2BG: GC IV 33 31S/2BG: GC V 34 32S/2BG: 35 33S/2BG: GC VI 36 33S/3BG: Divine Shield 37 33S/3BG/1R: 38 34S/3BG/1R: 39 35S/3BG/1R: GC VII 40 36S/3BG/1R: GC VIII
WOW! I cant believe i missed this. You have to take warding at lv 31 or later. It has spellcraft of 34, which if my math is correct, 26 +4 <34.
please ask a mod to adjust this in the OP so we wont confuse anyone. Please, next time post a LEGAL build. One that has been tested, at least through a trainer mod. _________________
I think avado answered your question like no other could...
Not to mention that AutoStill has a Spellcraft 27 prereq. Can't be done by 21st level. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Ouch!
Test your builds [u]before[/u] posting them. Send me or any of the other moderators the edits after you have tested. Do not fail me again, young padawan, or i will send my ninja familiar to harvest your soul. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
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A nice build, to be certain. I play a build similar to this on my PW, except 35 Sorceror, 4 BG, 1 Rogue. The 4th Blackguard is taken so I can net divine shield pre-epic.
. Oh, well I'll just have to keep that in mind.
Wow, nice catch. I guess sometimes two wrongs really can make a right.
