Hey.
First of all let's clarify that this build is feat starved.
You get all you need, but nothing more, and you get it late.
It is not really playable until epic levels; it's designed
for the high-end content of a medium magic server where AC is very important and all the bosses have true seeing.
But on the contrary to the epic dodge/SC5 dex builds this one still does some noticable damage without having to rely on sneak attacks which won't work on lots of enemies.

I decided to go dex-based, cause dexers achieve more AC than strenght-builds.. as i said, AC is really important.

Overall this build should be pretty good at soloing tough monsters or bosses (try it in a module for example).

Well you'll see this one is really total crap until level 30+, don't say i have not warned you!

note: you can't really change the order in which levels or feats are taken, or else the build will be pretty much screwed up. You will lose an attack per round or won't meet certain prerequisites.
It was a little tough to work this out...

Starved Bard - Bard 23 / RDD 10 / Weapon Master 7
Playable from 30-40, PvM (might work in PvP), works best on "World of Amon".

Human, non-lawful alignment

starting Stats (ending stats):

str: 12 (20)
dex: 16 (26)
con: 12 (14)
wis: 8
int: 14 (16)
char: 14 (16)

1) Bard - dodge, mobility
2) Bard
3) Bard - weapon profiency: exotic
4) Bard - stat increase: dex
5) Bard - (make sure to have 8 ranks in lore)
6) RDD - weapon focus: kukri
7) RDD
RDD - stat increase: dex
9) RDD - spring attack
10)RDD -
11)RDD
12)RDD - expertise, stat increase: dex
13)RDD
14)Bard
15)Bard - whirlwind attack - (intimidate 4)
16)Weapon Master - weapon: kukri, stat increase: dex
17)Weapon Master
18)Weapon Master - improved critical: kukri
19)Weapon Master
20)Weapon Master - stat increase: dex
21)RDD - ambidexterity
22)RDD
23)Weapon Master
24)Weapon Master - TWF, stat increase: dex
25)Bard
26)Bard
27)Bard - weapon finesse
28)Bard - stat increase: dex
29)Bard
30)Bard - epic weapon focus: kukri
31)Bard
32)Bard - stat increase: dex
33)Bard - curse song
34)Bard
35)Bard
36)Bard - ITWF, stat increase: dex
37)Bard
38)Bard
39)Bard - improved expertise
40)Bard - lasting inspiration, stat increase: dex

skills:

perform: 43
discipline: 43
UMD: 43
taunt: 43
intimidate: 4
lore: 8
tumble: 40
spellcraft: 42 (modified rank with bardsong is 50ish, which means +10 to saves versus spells)
16 points left over

i won't bother writing down the unbuffed stats, since this guy is a self buffer and all his buffs last long because of the 23 bard levels.

stats, equipped with 2 non-magical kukris, buffed with: warcry, resistance, haste, mighty magic weapon, keen edge, cat's grace (random roll), bull's strenght (random roll), protection from alignment, mage armor, improved invisibility, bard song, curse song (due to 23 songs a day each lasting 100 rounds i count this as +2AB/AC):

AB dualwielding: 36
AC dualwielding: 30
saves: 21/29/21

naked AB: 49/44/39/34/29, 49/44 - 7 attacks per round
damage 1-4+6+10 (crit on 10-20, x3 multiplicator)

naked AC: 47 (+2 vs evil)
with tower shield and improved expertise 60 (+2 vs evil)

50% concealment.

please keep in mind what's this build purpose while tearing it apart.

greetings
dusty

Edited By Grimnir77 on 04/02/07 21:22

You have used 6 of your 7 epic feats with normal feats. WHile i see what you are doing here, it is a waste because you loose out on 6 gr dexes or what have you. Otherwise, nice first attempt.
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Quote: Posted 07/24/06 22:47:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ

You should listen to avado

Well, here's my critic:

When you make a build, in general you have to focus on a certain thing of the build, when you try to gain too many stuff like here, your build weakens a lot, because by gaining an increased multiplier, you sacrificed a lot of feats for WM, and kept sacrificing even more feats for ITWF with an Exotic Proficiency, plus the required levels of Bard for Lasting Inspiration, the wanted RDD (which is probably the only add-up that doesn't presents a truly sacrificing investment), and the fact that you're pumping DEX while RDD boosts STR.

So, in short, trying to do everything at the same time makes it ultimately weaker, everything works so-so, but when you focus on a given characteristic (say, one or two, not five) you can excel on it and that's what can make you truly powerful.

Quote: naked AB: 49/44/39/34/29, 49/44 - 7 attacks per round

Eh... you tested this? because... how the heck do you get that high AB with such a low DEX and BAB (not even having Epic Prowess, it shouldn't even reach 40), I suppose it's a fully buffed AB score (yeah, I guess that makes sense now), yet how do you get a mainhand fifth attack at +29?

Altogether it's not that bad, but I'd drop Weapon Master completely for Fighter to get a bunch of feats, I consider EWS and full epic feat selection will serve better than an exceeding critical range and multiplier (critical threat range will not work effectively on rolls of 10-20 unless you can hit the opponent on such rolls, only a roll of 20 counts as automatic hit, if you miss on, say, rolls of 10-12 having such a critical threat range is useless). After the feat investment in opening WM you really should take more than 7 levels to make proper use of what it can give you. The trouble is in doing so will impact hugely on your Bardic capabilities (LI, Bard and Curse Song, Loss of an epic feat, etc.)

I echo others thoughts here regarding the dropping of WM in favour of A. N. Other class.

One other thing, as it is DEX based you may find a few problems as you do not have the Uncanny Dodge Feat (Barb, Assassin, SD and Rogue can all provide that).
Quote: Posted 03/21/07 02:03 (GMT) -- dust7

naked AB: 49/44/39/34/29, 49/44

I think you're about 13 AB off there. I see 36. Unless this is his non-nekked AB.

Quote: please keep in mind what's this build purpose while tearing it apart.
Will do. But this build looks painfully server-specific.
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE! thanks for the input.

as i mentioned, i wrote down the naked but buffed AB, since all the self-buffs are lasting quite long with that much bard levels.
i've listed all the buffs used before writing the AB.

as for taking fighter instead of weapon master, i don't really see how i can still do damage with it...

this build's damage comes from a 55% critchance (on rolls of 10-20) and hasted 7 APR combined with the x3 multiplicator.
and testing it in the novice to epic character maker it pretty much killed everything but the prismatic dragon.

but maybe you can show me how not losing that much dmg when taking another class instead of WM.
going str-based all the way might lose too much AC.

Edited By dust7 on 03/21/07 12:29

You are required to list unbuffed AB and AC. I assume your saves and skills are already listed unbuffed - if not, please PM those as well as the AB/AC to me or another mod and they will be edited.

Personally I don't see the point in this build, but it's still legit, so as long as you supply all the required information I'm willing to keep it posted.
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Star Wreck BTW, wanted to add illegal feat taken at Level 10. Move that to 12.
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: Posted 03/21/07 12:27 (GMT) -- dust7

thanks for the input.

as i mentioned, i wrote down the naked but buffed AB, since all the self-buffs are lasting quite long with that much bard levels.
i've listed all the buffs used before writing the AB.

as for taking fighter instead of weapon master, i don't really see how i can still do damage with it...

this build's damage comes from a 55% critchance (on rolls of 10-20) and hasted 7 APR combined with the x3 multiplicator.
and testing it in the novice to epic character maker it pretty much killed everything but the prismatic dragon.

but maybe you can show me how not losing that much dmg when taking another class instead of WM.
going str-based all the way might lose too much AC.

Allow me...

Your mainhand deals 1-4 +6 +10 buffed (says you, I have no idea where that +10 comes from, GMW adds only +5, that +6 is buffed STR I guess), critical X3, (17-20, critical 51-60) and offhand deals 1-4 +3 +10 then, since STR gets halved for the offhand.

Now then, take in consideration some points:

Critical immunity; all construct and undead types (I think shifts of them as well, ask Bromium) are immune to critical hits, on high magic worlds there are even items that give such thing.
Criticals actually hitting; you normally don't net 55% critical hits, you first need to be able to hit the enemy with your AB and roll, if you miss the critical won't work, and you could increase some AB and AC with Great DEX if you take out Weapon Master; excess critical threat range can also be solved changing weapon for, say, shortsword, and gaining the feat spent on Exotic.

Fighter allows you to take Epic Weapon Specialization, which nets +6 damage to all hits, both main and off hands, as well as a feat at level 1, 2, and every 2 levels, which means you can take ITWF without feat problems and have space to take a lot of Great DEX, and Epic Prowess, increasing AB and AC.

Of course if you play in an environment where critical immunity is too rare and you can add magical bonuses to weapons, the multiplier might be worth it, but I'm thinking on PvP here, you'd go better with a higher base damage, AB and AC for PvP.

Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 03/22/07 04:48

sorry for not posting unbuffed stats, i thought they were of no interest.

unbuffed stats (no bard song, nothing)
AB dualwielding: 36
AC dualwielding: 30
saves: 21/29/21

Thaxll'ssyllia:
thanks for your input.
this char is not meant for PvP, i've not even tested it in PvP.
the world i play on has high AB bosses which are usually sneak-immune and is medium to high magic, but not 'uber'.. lets say +8 to +10 weapons are considered high-end.
you should aim for about 80-90 AC at least as a meleer.

of course there are dex-based bard/rdd/PM builds around that hit about 120 AC with the best items... but all they can do is not getting hit (except by the strongest creatures that are supposed to be fought with a huge party)

mobs are usually 'hitable', a buffed AB of over 50 (including equipment) should work on most enemies.
because of this most players take improved expertise.

which way would you go regarding this circumstances?

edit:
i've tested it in a module now, selfbuffed AB ist 46-47 depending on bull's and cat's rolls(without curse song).

Quote: I have no idea where that +10 comes
this is buffed of course.
the character sheet says:

1-4+7 (10-20 x3)
+ 5
+ 2
+ 3

greetings
dusty

Edited By dust7 on 03/22/07 11:30

First of all, this is not a forum for server-specific builds. Secondly(and even in your world), this build could work okay if you go STR and drop dual-wielding altogether. I don't think your AC will be much lower with armour and shield, if any at all. Your AB will def be better and damage too, even though you forego 2 attacks. Go Bard 23(or 26)/RDD10 and fighter for the rest and we have a winner. But the fighter variants have all been done.

If you really, really want DEX and Dual-wield, well let's face it. WM ain't gonna cut it. Fighter will out perform it in each and every setting I can imagine.

In short:
Bard/WM/RDD go STR and no dual-wield.
If you want DEX and dual, well, Bard/RDD/fighter for sure.
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Sons of Odin fights to die and live again Even if you go Bard/Fighter/RDD and make it Dex-based, you still don't have Uncanny Dodge... Something that's worth to consider IMO.