SKILLS Discipline- 43 (44) Spot- 43(45) Tumble- 40 (50) Set Trap- 38 (48)[[could be exchanged for hide/ms]] UMD- 25 (29) 0 leftover
LEVELLING GUIDE 01: Ranger (1): Weapon Finesse, Favoured Enemy: Halflings 02: Ranger (2) 03: Ranger (3): Weapon Proficiency: Exotic 04: Ranger (4): Dex+1 (18) 05: Ranger (5): Favoured Enemy: Elves 06: Ranger (6): Power Attack 07: Ranger (7) 08: Ranger (8) Dex +1 (19) 09: Ranger (9): Improved Critical: Kukri [[You now have Improved Two-Weapon Fighting]] 10: Ranger (10): Favoured Enemy: Humans 11: Ranger (11) 12: Ranger (12): W. Focus: Kukri; Dex +1 (20) 13: Ranger (13) 14: Ranger (14) 15: Paladin (1): Extend Spell [[You now have an XP penalty]] 16: Paladin (2): Dex +1 (21) 17: Paladin (3) 18: Paladin (4) Divine Shield [[Knockdown if you don't think CHA is enough to really matter.. just remember, self-buffed you can get 22 Cha]] 19: Paladin (5) 20: Paladin (6): Dex +1 (22) 21: Ranger (15): Epic Prowess, Epic Weapon Focus: Kukri 22: Ranger (16) 23: Ranger (17) 24: Ranger (18): Armour Skin, Wis +1 (14) 25: Ranger (19) 26: Ranger (20): Favoured Enemy: Dwarves 27: Ranger (21): Great Dex I (23) 28: Ranger (22): Dex +1 (24) 29: Ranger (23): Bane of Enemies 30: Paladin (7): Great Dex II (25) 31: Paladin (8) 32: Paladin (9): Dex +1 (26) 33: Paladin (10): Great Dex III (27) 34: Paladin (11) 35: Paladin (12) 36: Paladin (13): Greater Dex IV (28); Dex +1 (29) 37: Paladin (14) 38: Rogue (1) [[Max Tumble and put points into UMD now]] 39: Paladin (15): Divine Might or Improved Knockdown/ Knockdown.. i took Divine Might just because the +8 damage if you have +12 charisma seems nice when dual-wielding. If you play on a low magic server and didn't take Divine Shield you may want to get IKD. Also, if you take KD or IKD here you might want to swap this level with the last, so this is rogue, delaying your 40% XP penalty one more level 40: Ranger (24): Dex +1 (30)
BAB: 37 Unarmed AB: 41 [[+2 when fighting Humans, Elves, Halflings, or Dwarves]] Mundane Kukri AB: 44 [[+2 when fighting Humans, Elves, Halflings, or Dwarves]] + 1 bless + 1 aid + 1 prayer + 5 divine favour + 5 holysword or gmw = Buffed AB: 57 (shield equipped) [[+2 when fighting Humans, Elves, Halflings, or Dwarves]] AC (naked): 30 AC (tower shield): 33 AC (Self-buffed CHA, Divine Shield,naked): 36 AC (Self- buffed CHA, Divine Shield, tower shield): 39
Spell Resistance: 16 Pros -Can dual-wield pretty well -With buffs, nice damage for a dex-based build -Extended divine favour, prayer, aid, and bless -Pretty nice AC with a shield -Holysword.. even though it's cheap in PvP, it can be helpful if you're feeling devilish,and is a free +5 enhancement in a low magic/solo area -Kukri crit range -Nice buffs overall, especially on a low-magic/solo server or campaign -A nice pet to help with levelling in the beginning
Cons -No KD or IKD -Not particularly great saves -Not enough Discipline to resist most KD's or Disarms in a PvP server -Not too much HP -20% XP penalty at 15, then 40% at 38 or 39 -Again..no KD/IKD :[
I made this build because i hadn't made a dual-wielding build in forever and I'm fond of paladins. It can also hold its own pretty well while using one weap and a shield. Also, when I searched the builds, I found none that were too much like this.[[There are FinneousPJ's Ranger/Pally/Harper and Mithdradrates' Ranger/Pally/Fighter, but mine isn't quite the same as theirs, mainly because it's dex-based]].. I thought about dropping rogue for bard, but I'd rather have 1d6 sneaks than bard cantrips.. You could easily drop the favoured enemies if you intend on mainly playing PvE. This is a PvP build though; hope you enjoy it, and good luck.
-Apples
Edited By applesaremybestfriends on 07/17/07 06:46
Hmm, since you're only going 1 Rogue, I'd consider taking a Monk level instead - that would net 2 AC (potentially +8 with enough WIS gear), and would give you the option of going kama over kukri. Basically, trading the crit. range for the APR.
Or, if you're set on UMD - you definitely should go 3rd Rogue for Uncanny Dodge, since you're a DEXer. Maybe 21 Ranger 16 Pally 3 Rogue... along those lines.
--mantis3
Quote: Posted 07/17/07 06:49 (GMT) -- mantis3
Hmm, since you're only going 1 Rogue, I'd consider taking a Monk level instead - that would net 2 AC (potentially +8 with enough WIS gear), and would give you the option of going kama over kukri. Basically, trading the crit. range for the APR.
Or, if you're set on UMD - you definitely should go 3rd Rogue for Uncanny Dodge, since you're a DEXer. Maybe 21 Ranger 16 Pally 3 Rogue... along those lines.
--mantis3
That does make sense, but the server I play gives easy access to +5 tower shields, which would be equivalent to the monk wis AC bonus.. the kama(s) would definitely be nice though
And yes, I am pretty much set on UMD for the server I play on. Going to a fight with no Imp.Invis, See invis, G.Stoneskin, Flame Weapon, Neg. energy prot., Mage armour, or flesh to stone scrolls more than often ends badly.
If I went 3 rogue, I would have to drop 2 Great dex's in order to keep bane of enemies.. Which would also allow me to take Knockdown and ESF:Discipline, and those two would probably help quite a bit, even with the -1ab/ac.. So yeah, going for the uncanny dodge would probably be best.
Thanks for your input ^^
Edited By applesaremybestfriends on 07/17/07 07:14
If I went 3 rogue, I would have to drop 2 Great dex's in order to keep bane of enemies.. Which would also allow me to take Knockdown and ESF:Discipline, and those two would probably help quite a bit, even with the -1ab/ac.. So yeah, going for the uncanny dodge would probably be best.
Another option would be to go 23 Ranger 15 Pally 2 Assassin. That is, if alignment changes are possible. This route would not cost you any bonus feats.
Yeah, Uncanny Dodge is quite important, if you're leveling the build playing it for real it would be of use to take Uncanny earlier than level 38, UMD is also very useful for playability, concerning potential losses sometimes losing a feat is not important compared to be stronger sooner and make the build easier to play.
Also, I'd take Divine Might a lot sooner, you need damage sources as a dexer or you won't get to level 39. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Also, I'd take Divine Might a lot sooner, you need damage sources as a dexer or you won't get to level 39.
Yeah, but i made it from the view of my server (Badlands 3125) which allows you to get 1d10 fire, 1d10 cold, 1d10 elec., 1d10acid, keen, and 1d10 massive criticals on a weap by level 23 or so, and you can usually find a party easily enough.. for PvE/solo getting divine might probably would be best earlier on
Quote: Posted 07/17/07 12:45 -- (GMT) mantis3 Another option would be to go 23 Ranger 15 Pally 2 Assassin. That is, if alignment changes are possible. This route would not cost you any bonus feats.
Alas, alignment change = not possible on my server. Although this would definitely be better for someone that has access to alignment changes, which i hear are quite common on most servers.
Forgive me for asking, but where's the 16 SR coming from? _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 07/17/07 20:08 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Forgive me for asking, but where's the 16 SR coming from?
I had no clue where that came from, either.. it might've just been something I accidentaly put on an item in the test mod I used, but when fully buffed it said I had 16 SR on my char sheet. Taking into consideration the source of that info it would probably be best to just ignore it.
Edited By applesaremybestfriends on 07/17/07 20:27
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Yeah, it adds 16 SR. Also (which isn't on the sheet), it adds +1d6 Divine Damage vs. evil aligned mobs.
Ahh.. I never knew that holysword gave SR... chalk one more under "Reasons why HS is uber" i guess.
Dude, if you can add so much stuff to your weapons them take Monk for the kama APR. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
I would rather have UMD than the extra APR, and monk's wis AC bonus would be the same to not as good as a tower shield. Paladin spellcraft unfortunately doesn't really give access to any good enough scrolls to drop rogue and UMD for me. Taking monk would do more justice to the name, with faster attacks, but for the server I play on I would rather not have a character that doesn't have UMD or some useful spellcraft.
Monk would definitely be better if you do not particularly need UMD or don't want to go for uncanny dodge, but I'll stick with my rogue-ness.
Holy Sword adds SR? This is news to me... _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Yes, Rogue over Monk, but even so, this boy needs some Uncanny Dodge, or he's no Mongoose. Ranger21/Paly15/Rogue3. Unfortunately, at that point it's pretty much a Level 40 build. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Yeah.. it still shouldn't be too hard to level without uncanny dodge until 37-39, with divine shield early on making up for tumble and Keen Senses + spot or listen keeping most meanie HiPSers at bay, just be careful to not be caught prone until then.
Edited By applesaremybestfriends on 07/18/07 05:30
just be careful to not be caught prone until then.
You mean Flatfooted. Prone would just be one instance of being flatfooted. I think I go flatfooted at least once per battle. It's just too hard to avoid. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
You mean Flatfooted. Prone would just be one instance of being flatfooted. I think I go flatfooted at least once per battle. It's just too hard to avoid.
Oh, I always thought prone and flatfooted meant the same thing xD. I never really knew going flatfooted was that much of a problem, I only tend to do it if there's too many enemies and they block me from the one I was attacking or if I don't have see invis. and someone goes invis.. which is why purge is useful if you don't have ii. But then again, I only got past the training part of the OC and then debug'd, set my level to 40, gave my char uber stats then killed everyone i could that was there
When playing on PW's where you generally just go PvM, flat-footed isn't a big deal since most of the mobs won't kill you that fast.
But play in a PvP environment vs. run-shooting monk archers, HiPSing (or CSing) sneaks, and you'll definitely know the difference between having uncanny dodge and not having uncanny dodge.
Quote: Posted 07/18/07 17:07 (GMT) -- mantis3
But play in a PvP environment vs. run-shooting monk archers, HiPSing (or CSing) sneaks, and you'll definitely know the difference between having uncanny dodge and not having uncanny dodge.
Hehe, guess I'm kinda lucky in that way, my server has basically no archers at all, and the people that do have them are usually on bards or monks. HiPS would be a problem, but if you can't see them already and happen to have access to a nice bard friend, it shouldn't be much of a problem... and even with uncanny dodge, if someone is spamming HiPS and you can't see them you'll probably be dead soon enough.
Not saying uncanny dodge isn't great, but like Ithacan said earlier, "Build to taste."
Quote: Posted 07/18/07 17:07 (GMT) -- mantis3
When playing on PW's where you generally just go PvM, flat-footed isn't a big deal since most of the mobs won't kill you that fast.
But play in a PvP environment vs. run-shooting monk archers, HiPSing (or CSing) sneaks, and you'll definitely know the difference between having uncanny dodge and not having uncanny dodge.
You can't always take PvM as crappy mobs, any group will be hitting you frequently without Uncanny Dodge, even with weak enemies, your low HP would drop just too fast for consecutive fights, resting too much is kinda boring. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
You can't always take PvM as crappy mobs, any group will be hitting you frequently without Uncanny Dodge, even with weak enemies, your low HP would drop just too fast for consecutive fights, resting too much is kinda boring.
Well, if you needed Uncanny Dodge earlier on, and didn't particularly want Bane, you could take 20 ranger/15 pally/4 rogue.. getting Uncanny as early as possible in Epic levels and getting the 4th at 37 or so for a skill dump. Or, if you didn't think you would need maxed tumble and wanted bane you could go 21 ranger/15 pally/3 rogue and just take the 3 rogue levels at 21-23.. you'd lose 3 AC from tumble, but it should be worth it if Uncanny is so important. Both of these routes would lead you to a much more painful xp penalty a lot earlier than it would be. You could also always do 23 ranger/14 pally/3 rogue,and get some WIS gear for holysword.. you'd lose 1 ab and damage from divine favour, possibly not get divine might, and I think gmw would only be +4, but it's always a thought.
Yes, HP is a problem.. I always hate it if I can't get around 12 CON from the start, but it's something you have to live with. :s
Going assassin like mantis said would definitely be best if you can manage an alignment change.
Edited By applesaremybestfriends on 07/19/07 03:22
...and didn't particularly want Bane, you could take 20 ranger/15 pally/4 rogue...
I lol'd when I read that.
hehe... you never know ;P
If you didn't want Bane of Enemies... then you can take out Ranger altogether for something better dude. Not taking Bane of Enemies on a Ranger is like having loot in front of you and not taking it. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Neat build.
A dex-version of Finn's, Mith's or me Wildwood gang's Lionheart (26 ranger/15 paladin, Click Here but, yeah, he's also str. based!
Love the concept of dual-wield pally (as you can see) but must question the efficacy of ranger here ... at least, as a dexer w. only 4 FEs (and b/f you say you've access to lots of magic, well then, so does everyone else then, right? so, won't do you much good).
Apples, the idea is to build w.o thinking about oh what goodies can magic gear give me (since, as noted, it's avail. to all your enemies, too - as in, whatever you can get, so can they, hence, no further ahead than where you started right?); that said, if your intent is to build a support character, that you've done ... but I'm thinking you want more, yes?
OK, w. that in mind ... (and don't take it the wrong way, just trying to help, which is what I assume you're here for, at least if you wanna have any shot whatsoever pvp (or to solo pvm). Not trying to be mean, I'm not; but you really need to ask how useful *really* as a dexer is taking bane against only 4 enemies (w. totally dispellable pally buffs, no uncanny, low saves, no KD, no Blind Fight, and hence, no damage .. AND so few HPs? Oh yeah, and no ED either (what, half-orcs, gnomes, half-elves are banned on your world? Dude, you're missing about half the races, not to mention, regardless of race, what any WM worth his/her salt, any arcanist w. bullrush/mord's/IGMS, a bard who is gonna taunt/sing/curse, a sneaker, a smiter, all mongoose slicers.
OR, Odin help you, Badlands you say? Saw a build here, a focussed disarmer -- might even have been a half-elf; but does it really matter? As a mongoose (cool name btw), wld really like to see you take out the snakes
Seems to me you're spreading yourself way too thin, and hence need to focus -- do you want to be a ranger w. some pally support? in which case, take ranger to 26 (2 more fes), rogue to 3 as suggested (that's great advice, Apples), BF instead of extend (you need BF, too) and forget about the divines (yes, they're sexy, but that cha you're relying on to make it work, dispellable, ... and no good anyway if you're KD'd/bullrushed, right? Yes, Holy Sword is sexy too, but when you've only one helping on one kukri for such a short duration per day, one must question it's efficacy, right?
then again, if you love pally, if your goal is a dex-based, dual wield pally, w. a litte extra 'oomph' then, better off going 26 Paladin/6 Ftr/8 Rogue (goin' human, far better skills and more feats, more damage (WS/EWS, and 4d6 sneak), more HPs, more AB actually than what you've got (as in, 45 naked, bring it up w. undisp. pally buffs), blind fight, knockdown, better saves, did I mention undispellable buffs, and ... uncanny -- oh, and planned right, no xp burdens either ...
Either way, there's some great advice here, Apples, and people are only trying to help you better what otherwise is a neat concept.
That said, welcome to the guild. I'd be happy to help you, if you like (I'm a huge pally and ranger fan, too!). If so, just send me a pm.
Cheers, Tyr
Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/19/07 06:31
Hehe, thank you for that, Tyr.
I realise that I'm not near as good as most of the people here, which is why i figured I'd post. [[Bigby's bullrush is disabled on Badlands, along with Divine power, the sanctuaries.. IGMS also only does 1d6 damage each misile, and theres some other stuff I can't really think of right now, just for info.. also, once someone brings a mage into PvP the "war" is usually over, no one wants to just get owned over and over by a Gnome with healkits or a 38wiz Elf with mord's and bigby's grasping and a friend that pickpockets you]] Yes, the lack of the other races as FE's might be a nuisance, but gnomes/half-elves are barely ever picked, on my server at least, and Half-orcs... well I can just hope they won't have as much AC as a halfling or elf. I realised after I made it I would never use it for Dual-wielding, when you're fighting people with 60+ AB 67 or so AC is not good. [[+5 gear, +12 dex/cha]]. When I built this I really was just trying to get Bane, pally buffs, and divine shield... One of my main flaws is when I build a character I only focus on one or two things about it, my best all-around is probably my disarmer as well[[27 ranger/12 monk/1 wiz]]. I always try to get blind-fight because the boss monk gloves on Bads give On-hit: Blindness DC=26 Duration:75%/1round, which also make you go flatfooted when you initially roll the 1 that everyone hates.
This was also the first build I thought of after about a 8 month break from NWN, so yeah. The +1 STR bonus is better than most my dex builds [[usually -2 or -1 STR mod]], damage is not really a problem or really thought about, and with pally buffs I assumed it would be pretty nice-ish for a dex build, but apparently not. Pretty much all disarmers on Bads are halflings, either ranger/monk/wiz or pally/monk/wiz, the better ones are usually rangers... Pallies get nice AB for longer, but less AC and when truestrike'd usually don't have as good AB as a ranger... Although there has been a strange increase with people using unarmed dwarf 28barb/2bard/10rdd's with terrifying rage to disarm, and if they fail switching to a heavy flail for the +x bonus depending on your weap.. but when your half-orc with ESF:Disc and 82 discipline [[+8 from items, +12 str]] is getting disarmed, it pretty much means unless you're an uber bard and str-based, or str-based and have an uber bard friend, you'll be soon weaponless or eating the floor if the person really wants you to.
With +12 cha gear the divine shield is helpful enough, ~76 AC will get you KD'ed by a few people, or truestrikers. Then again, that is what the sheet says, and we all know about the sheet's love of lies and trickery. I also wouldn't intend on using holysword unless someone brought a mage, as soon as I used it I would promptly be disarmed [[basically everyone on Bads also believes holysword is too powerful and some completely refuse to use it, no matter what, and spam-disarm/pp/KoS people that use it too much.. They only don't disable it because it's one of the things that make pallies pallies o.o]]
I seriously appreciate the help, and look forward to posting another build [[hopefully better]] again sometime.
Yeah, Uncanny Dodge is quite important, if you're leveling the build playing it for real it would be of use to take Uncanny earlier than level 38, UMD is also very useful for playability, concerning potential losses sometimes losing a feat is not important compared to be stronger sooner and make the build easier to play.
Dude, if you can add so much stuff to your weapons them take Monk for the kama APR.
When playing on PW's where you generally just go PvM, flat-footed isn't a big deal since most of the mobs won't kill you that fast.