Hi Guild! So this is my first posting at the guild (I joined 2 hours ago) and I am very curious about your ideas about my build. For the fluff: I think monk and assassin fit good together. I made him lose his master and order, so the assassin became a ronin, an outcast, wandering through the world with no one left to understand his view of the world (and judging him as evil (-> lawful evil) ). So he gets his ranger levels (there were some people who couldn't imagine an evil ranger).
After reading Syarul's Assassin Guide (GREAT guide!) I tried to make a halfling Version of Syarul's Reverend Assassin, which minimizes xp penalty. I wanted to take a halfling make him become a good assassin by starting as a monk and get 6 attacks per turn at level 20 becoming a ranger and get improved two-weapon fighting So please start criticizing!
I didn't find a Monk/Ranger/Assassin-Combination but maybe CrispyCritters Shaolin Assassin is a similar build (it's a halfling too): Click Here
I start with following attributes:
Str 8 Dex 18* Con 10 Wis 14 Int 16 Cha 8 *always increase dexterity (to 31 at level 40)
Dexterity and intelligence must be high. Wisdom 14 is not too expensive (dex and int raising would be much more expensive) and as monk I gain AC from wis. Some useful skills are modified by wis, too. (search, spot, listen, e.g.)
So the progression would look like this: 1: blooded monk (to get monk AB progression) 2-5: 2 lvls of monk and Ranger each, must have hide and move silently 2 lvls each 6-10: 5 lvls of assassin (to get the main assassin advantages) 11-12: 2 lvls of ranger (to get Ultravision) 13-17: 5 lvls of assassin (you have 5 attacks at lvl 17) 18: 1 lvl of monk (you will have 4 lvls of monk. Its a nice 4-level-package of this 3/4-BAB-progression class.) 19-20: 2 lvls of Ranger (to get 6 attacks at lvl 20, this costs a xp penalty of 20% up from lvl 20-21: 5000 pts) 21: 1 lvl of monk (to end xp penalty) 22-27: some lvls of ranger and monk each, to get improved two weapon fighting at ranger lvl 9, monk will have lvl 8 28-40: assassin To take out some stations of his developpment:
Halfling: (Fearless, Good Aim, Lucky, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Move Silently, Small Stature) M 01: Monk(1): Blooded, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist} R 02: Ranger(1): {Dual Wield} M 03: Monk(2): Weapon Finesse, {Deflect Arrows} R 04: Ranger(2): DEX+1, (DEX=19) M 05: Monk(3) As 06: Assassin(1): Weapon Focus: Kama As 07: Assassin(2): {Uncanny Dodge I} As 08: Assassin(3): DEX+1, (DEX=20) As 09: Assassin(4): Blind Fight As 10: Assassin(5) R 11: Ranger(3) R 12: Ranger(4): DEX+1, Improved Initiative, (DEX=21) As 13: Assassin(6) As 14: Assassin(7) As 15: Assassin(8): Thug As 16: Assassin(9): DEX+1, (DEX=22) As 17: Assassin(10) M 18: Monk(4): Combat Casting R 19: Ranger(5) R 20: Ranger(6): DEX+1, (DEX=23) M 21: Monk(5): Superior Initiative M 22: Monk(6): {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown} R 23: Ranger(7) M 24: Monk(7): DEX+1, Epic Weapon Focus: Kama, (DEX=24) R 25: Ranger(8) M 26: Monk(8) R 27: Ranger(9): Epic Prowess, {Improved Two-Weapon Fighting} As 28: Assassin(11): DEX+1, (DEX=25) As 29: Assassin(12) As 30: Assassin(13): Blinding Speed As 31: Assassin(14) As 32: Assassin(15): DEX+1, (DEX=26) As 33: Assassin(16): Great Dexterity I, (DEX=27) As 34: Assassin(17) As 35: Assassin(18) As 36: Assassin(19): DEX+1, Great Dexterity II, (DEX=29) As 37: Assassin(20) As 38: Assassin(21) As 39: Assassin(22): Great Dexterity III, (DEX=30) As 40: Assassin(23): DEX+1, (DEX=31)
Death Attack DC 37 (at lvl 11: 19, at lvl 18: 24), paralyzation lasts 23 turns, darkness lasts 4 turns 10 attacks per turn with the 6 attacks from lvl 20 on, haste (+1), flurry of blows (+1) and improved two weapon fighting (+2), and so we get 4 death attack possibilities for the first flurry if we attack hidden
As equipment i suggest the same as Syarul's Assassin Guide, mainly Int- (Darkness lasting and Death Attack DC), Dex- and Wis- (additional Spell Slots - a wis +6 - item would free a ranger lvl 1 slot (it would give Wis 20), a +7 would add a free lvl 2 spell slot (Wis 21)) boosting equipment, but i think a sequencing item for additional darkness spells would be great.
I have some questions regarding assassins: I read somewhere that an assassin should have 25 sin-lvls minimum. I think this should ensure a high Death Attack DC (10 + 25 + INT) (vs. fortitude save). So I would like to know if a high Int could qualify this lvl-23-assassin for a full-time-assassin, or would he have to rely more often on UMD and special magic gear or higher STR as suggested? I am now thinking about just taking assassin-levels after character-level 21 (so level 22+ will be assassin levels). The character would drop improved two weapon fighting (isn't level 27 with the Ronin-Built too late anyway?). Are 10 attacks maximum necessary, or are they just necessary for using primarily attacks from stealth mode? Does anyone has experience with assassins death attack with ranged weapons? And at last: I experienced very annoying problems with the darkness spell at ground which is not perfectly flat. The darkness area expands and contracts and seems not to work, rendering every assassin useless. Is this a bug? Is there any way to deal with this problem?
Edited By CashaManykamas on 07/23/07 16:20
Nice idea, but I see a few issues. The first issue is that a dex-based halfling sneak deserves to have Epic Dodge. While you attain 50% Concealment, having that Epic Dodge makes up for low damage output.
Also, I'm not sure what the Ranger Dualwielding is doing for you since Kamas are medium weapons for halflings, and thus slashing your AB by -4 per Kama, per hand.
Now, I see that you are trying to keep Monk and Ranger within 1 to avoid XP penalty, but you might be better served by going Monk10/SD5/Assn25. What you'll need to do is drop those Initiative Feats (you're Dex-based anyway so you'll beat most things). Pre-epic feats should include Dodge, Mobility, Ambi, TWF, ITWF, Finesse, Weapon Focus. You could also drop Wisdom to 10 and raise Str to 12 just so you can do some damage in those early levels, as well as carry loot and traps.
Going Monk8/SD4/Assn8 pre-epic will set you up for Epic Dodge by Level24. I would drop Blinding Speed for ED. Also the two added Assn levels would then increase DA DC, sneak, and give you another Great Dex Feat to end with a Dex32 (instead of 31, which you currently have). This, along with Monk10, will give you two more points of AC (and 1 AB), and thus make up the AC you lose by dropping the 14Wis. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
If you wanted to keep these classes, you should atleast get Monk 9 for Improved Evasion. Monk 9/Ranger 9/Assassin 22. Dwarflord makes nice suggestions. If you dont mind having a last dump for discipline, I like Monk 9/SD 5/Assassin 26 for another bonus feat.
I'd take Elf over Halfing here, since it will give you higher AB dual-wielding kamas.
Why Combat Casting? you aren't even a caster, drop that feat and another to get yourself Toughness and Improved Critical, I don't know why you place so many Initiative feats, they're so unnecesary.
And what happened to your bonus feats!? you get additional bonus feats at Assassin levels 14, 18 and 22, you forgot to add those. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
And what happened to your bonus feats!? you get additional bonus feats at Assassin levels 14, 18 and 22, you forgot to add those.
Heh, I glossed right over that, mostly because I assumed he took those 3 Great Dex feats along the way. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Thank you all for your feedback!
Ok, I don't know how exactly initiative works and so how important it really is, but I followed an advise by Syarul's guide about the Blooded-, Thug-, Improved Initiative- and Superior Initiative-feats: "This is the super most important feats you need to take if you plan to make a truly terrifying deadly Assassin. While dealing Death Attack, with all Two-Weapon Fighting feats, the first attack of the Assassin usually react before the victim can make their attacks. To improve chances executing Death Attack, you should spend feats on Blooded, Thug, Improved Initiative and Superior Initiative (epic feats). With these you'll ALWAYS get the higher opportunity dealing most of your attacks as Death Attacks since your victim is yet not in combat mode."
Epic Dodge only works with Defensive Roll. But I need to have a Rogue or Shadowdancer for Defensive Roll. Kama is a medium weapon for halflings but I can use a tiny weapon as side weapon. Even with Improved Two Weapon Fighting at level 27 I would get just 2 attacks with the side weapon, so it's not necessary to get the Weapon Focus bonus for it, the bonus would do it for the 6-8 attacks from the main hand weapon (with Flurry of Blows and Hasted). If you experience problems, hitting your target you should drop the weapon anyway and find some potions, scrolls and items that you can use with UMD to raise AB.
Combat Casting and the not too low concentration value should help using the Assassin's spells in combat, which are always emergency situations: so you will be able to cast Darkness and Invisibility (does it work with scrolls too? this would work well with UMD). So i can sneak in, attack and paralyze one enemy, cast darkness if there are too many other enemies and a) get sneak attack bonus against an target within the darkness area or b) run into the darkness to hide and sneak towards the next opponent to try the paralyzing attack (when he isn't in combat mode anymore). I took the Ranger not only for his free feats for Two Weapon Fighting (so that I can use the initiative feats) but also for his Ultravision spell, which you could use well with the Assassin's Darkness. Shadowdancer would get 3/4 BAB-developpment, Ranger gets Fighter-BAB, so you would lose (1) AB if you take Shadowdancer (you would regain the BAB with Great Dex in later levels, but you couldnt exploit the monk to get the 6th attack with the main hand at level 20). I think the Shadowdancer-version would get some additional defensive potential, but you would lose one attack and Ultravision, not to mention level 2 spell Cat's Grace and a loyal hawk
As variations of this build I am thinking about several options which you can combine how you prefer a) taking Scribe Scroll to produce Darkness scrolls b) skipping Monk and Ranger levels after level 21 ,so that you can get 29 lvls Assassin, you would lose Improved Two Weapon Fighting c) as mentioned before, increasing Strength (10), and perhaps increasing Intelligence, too, maybe at lvl 4 and 8 each, so you would benefit from one additional skill point per level (32 skill points at lvl 40), enabling your assassin to accomplish more rogue tasks and your Death Attack paralyze DC would be a little bit increased d) mentioned anywhere else: take at least one point in skills that need training, like Animal Empathy, Pick Lock, Set Trap and Disable Trap because there are some items that boosts your ability in this skill, making your assassin more versatile..
At singleplayer roleplaying campaigns, I would follow c) and d) and boost Persuade, Disable Trap and maybe Pick Lock at multiplayer I would boost Heal and Disable Trap
As tactic I would advise using ranged weapons (halflings get +1 AB with slings, you just need to hit for paralyze attack) to try the first paralyzing attack. You would be able to either cast Darkness or flee, wait and get additional opportunities for paralyzing attacks.
Hey grizzled_dwarflord and galelabriel, what about a compromise: I follow your advises and take Monk lvl 9 to get Improved Evasion, and I will take Great DEX in epic levels to qualify for some Self Concealment Feats to get more defensive capacities with level 40: Level 28 would be Monk 9. Level 33, 36 and 39 would get Self Concealment..
P.S.: Another Halfling Assassin would be Click Here. The build also shows the usefulness of traps for assassins.
Edited By CashaManykamas on 08/02/07 14:48
Self Concealment is very useless unless you take all 5, and you can get just the same effect by just casting Improved Invisibility from a scroll, so it's also a waste of feats. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Well, the problem with that is you already get a nearly undispellable Improved Invis from your Assassin class, which also will last all day long and into the night. I don't think getting the SC feats will do a whole lot at this point. If you don't think Epic Dodge can make the build without breaking the build, I would still switch Ranger for Fighter. 8 Fighter levels will get you your ITWF feats and WS/EWS for better damage output. You could easily go Monk9/Ftr8/Assn23, grab Improved Evasion, WS/EWS, ITWF, and still maintain the same Death Attack DC and damage dice. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Self Concealment is very useless unless you take all 5, and you can get just the same effect by just casting Improved Invisibility from a scroll, so it's also a waste of feats.
Depends on your environment, Thax. Where I play, the Imp Invis scrolls would be an inferior solution, as the mobs love to open up combat with a Dispel (and they're not shy about dispelling a little later either), which puts paid to a lot of scroll and potion based buffs. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Heh heh, true, scroll based spells are easily dispellable, good catch.
Ok, thanks! I will try the deadly dodging shadowdancing Assassin! (bye bye 10th attack. )
). So he gets his ranger levels (there were some people who couldn't imagine an evil ranger).
Heh heh, true, scroll based spells are easily dispellable, good catch.
Ok, thanks! I will try the deadly dodging shadowdancing Assassin! (bye bye 10th attack.