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Prefer More Death Attack DC and/or more skills instead of ESF: Discipline?
This build has been optimized for PvP.
If you prefer an extra death attack DC (i.e., Nat. DC 41 (47 int.cap), as opposed to ESF: Disc., or simply prefer more skills (for enhanced playability PvM, and helping out your party), then drop strength to 10 and starting dex to 16 (picking that dex right back up at lev. 39, instead of ESF: Discipline), and put those 2 starting points into int. for +1 death attack DC, and +43 skills (305 final skill points), as follows:
STR: 10, DEX: 16 (36), INT: 16
As to those skills, might I recommend the following arrangement (enabling you not only to set all deadly traps (as is currently the case), but to also fully and completely detect and disarm all such traps, with nothing more, no buffs or equip’t neces., while upping your locksmith skills):
Disable Trap 31(36), Discipline 43(43), Hide 43(56), Move Silently 43(58), Open Lock 15(28), Search 19(22), Set Trap 30(45), Tumble 40(53), UMD 41(40)
Impr.Crit (or IKD) or Ranged (PvM Adjustments)?
Alternatively, if you want impr.critical (or IKD), keeping in mind sneak doesn’t multiply on a crit (or IKD, being unnecesary PvP and won’t help too much PvM (so far as Halflings can’t down a dragon, but could w. IKD down giants etc.), drop str. to 10, start dex to 15 (pick it back up on level 39, as above), pump two points into starting con (for 404 HPs w.o the need of toughness), drop toughness for impr.crit. or IKD, or as you want, and/or pick up/switch out to a ranged weapon – as a Halfling, racial bonus “good aim” gives you an addit’l +1 AB to ranged automatically, and w. magical ammunition (blunt, fire, etc.), very nice pvm etc. to have.
And now back to our regularly scheduled program – the build
Defense:Quote:
* Acid Blob single creature 18d6 acid (and chance of paralysis, 5 rounds)
* Electrical, 7 creatures/15 ft, 30d6 electric (60d6 epic)
* Fire, All/10 ft. radius, 25d6 fire (50d6 epic)
* Frost, single creature, 8d4 cold (40d4 epic) (& chance of paralysis, 4 rounds)
* Holy, single creature, 8d4 (12d10 if undead) divine damage
* Negative, single creature, 9d6 negative (and chance of -1 level drain)
* Sonic, All/10 Ft., 8d4 sonic (40d4 epic) (and chance of stun, 4 rounds)
* Spike, single creature, 25d6 piercing
* Tangle, All/10 Ft., chance of slowing, 5 rounds
* Gas traps inflict poison to all creatures within a 15 foot radius.
For more information, see: http://www.nwnwiki.org/Trap
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Similar Builds:
There are 11 builds that use this class combo; surprisingly, very few are assassin-heavy builds, and of those, only 1 shares this same level split, namely: Talamier’s Shadow Stalker (Ranger 10 / Shadowdancer 2 / Assassin 28) Click Here , which looks to be a cool “party-friendly sneak” (thus differing from Night Talon as to its focus, and therefore its feats).
The others are: Dark Centurion’s Silent Assassin (Ranger 9 / Shadowdancer 1 / Assassin 30), Click Here , and Andymax’ (Ranger 9 / Assassin 30 / Shadowdancer 1), Click Here .
Although quite different (but similar in spirit, and hence worthy of an honorable mention) is Dark Slayer (Assassin 20 / Ranger 10 / Shadowdancer 10) , by Mithdradates, Click Here (which takes the ED/defensive path); while str-based and utilizing ftr. instead of ranger, there’s Grizzled’s Assassin King, (Fighter 14 / Shadowdancer 1 / Assassin 25), Click Here (thus, a totally different build, but dates 2005 and as such appears to be one of the very first heavy-assassin builds in the guild, thus worthy of an honorable mention)
Edited By TyrTemplar on 07/28/07 22:43
Nice, simple DEX based assassin with HiPS and ITWF, it's pretty cool even though I'd prefer Fighter instead of Ranger, because... Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Two Weapon Fighting are only three feats, and you already get the DEX pre-requisite, changing 10 Ranger levels for 10 Fighter levels make you end with 2 more feats (counting that you used the epic feat of Ranger 10), EWS comes to mind. Favored Enemies on a level 10 Ranger are no big deal, and Ranger spells can be surpassed just by your UMD, plus, as a Fighter you could drop WIS for more DEX or STR...Quote: Mundane Dagger(s):
• AB 44, +2 Cat’s: 46 (-2 dual-wield)
• Damage: 1d4+1, +3 FE* (19-20/x2), 14d6 sneak
Total: 10-28 (18-46 FEs) (crit: 19-20/x2), 84d6 sneak
Assuming DEX/STR, +5 keen Talons (1-6 cold enhancement) and haste:
• Single Wield (AB): 55/50/45/40/55 * Dual Wield (AB): 53/53/48/48/43/38/55
• Damage:
o Main: 1-4+(12-17), +3 FEs (17-20/x2), 14d6 sneak
Round Totals: 65-105 (80-120 FEs) (crit: 17-20/x2), 84d5 sneak
o Off: 1-4+(9-14), +3 FEs (17-20/x2), 14d6 sneak
Round Totals: 20-36 (26-42 FEs) (crit: 17-20/x2), 84d2 sneak
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 07/29/07 05:43
Quote: Posted 07/29/07 05:37 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia
Nice, simple DEX based assassin with HiPS and ITWF, it's pretty cool even though I'd prefer Fighter instead of Ranger, because... Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting and Improved Two Weapon Fighting are only three feats, and you already get the DEX pre-requisite, changing 10 Ranger levels for 10 Fighter levels make you end with 2 more feats (counting that you used the epic feat of Ranger 10), EWS comes to mind. Favored Enemies on a level 10 Ranger are no big deal, and Ranger spells can be surpassed just by your UMD, plus, as a Fighter you could drop WIS for more DEX or STR...
Its all over very good, and a lot more powerful than any sneaker build I ever managed to put together, but there is one thing I curious about:Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Edited By K U R T H on 08/04/07 12:01
I'd say 2 Rogue levels. Still gives you Evasion as well as 1d6 sneak attack (and will allow you to deal with epic traps).Thanks, everyone; such wonderful compliments, questions, and comments all around -- indeed, there is something very satisfying about playing a good assassin, almost as satisfying as coming home from a little R&R to see all of you here and your great comments - thanks!Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Quote: OK, FTR and “hitting”: (thanks, Thax and Galeab, and nice to see you) - yep, need 13 levels of it to cross-train hide & m/s bef. qualifying for assassin, plus 1 more epics for skills/disc., leaving only 24 levels of assassin which in turn would cost -2d6 sneak, a bunch of skills (cut into traps for e.g.), loss of an assassin bonus feat (i.e., lose a grt.dex), and less death DC to (10+int.mod+assassin level=) 36 (or 37) -- in other words, while ws/ews is nice, I would generally agree, but not worth it here (got traps and umd for that), and really detract from the build; you need lots of assassin for assassination benefits, incl. your death attack of course, as here: DC 40 (or 41), int.cap: 46 (or 47). At this DC, Talon's paralysis makes it all worthwhile (and what works pvp works great pvm, too of course)
Paralysis & Stealth/HiPs:
For the benefit of newer members, lasts 1 turn (10 rounds)/assassin level (in this case, 280 rounds for you to enjoy your 14d6 sneak, plus any weaponry/umd enhancements you add of course – in other words, wave goodbye to your foe – in the assassination biz, that’s “target terminated” –or- “package delivered”
also, traps and umd for non-sneak damage, among so many other things, lets you enhance your weaponry to BioCap (which here, is AB 70 (-2 dual) – but the best thing about being an epic assassin of course, apart from the sheer fun of it all (and all those great options of course, like ManyKamas and Kurth says: options = fun, fun, fun (thanks, guys: appreciate your comments, and nice to see you); That said, and as Thax says (thanks), ITWF/HiPs to sneak, you’re already strong, this is very true; and if you’re patient …
Remember, when you “patiently” attack from stealth/HiPs or launch from darkness and wait a few secs, ‘til your foe isn't "in combat" anymore, your target is primed not just for sneak, but for paralysis. Also, and either way, you gain a whole whack of effective AB in which to strike/sneak. This effective AB boost comes in the form of denying your opponent all their dex AC (barring uncanny), and loss also of dodge and tumble AC -- in the case of a melee'r/WM for instance, that's (at least) +10 to your AB, and not accounted for in the above equation – and when your foe is paralyzed, heh heh they’re sitting ducks; So, go forth and paralyze/death attack, then sneak away at your leisure; for those who are paralysis immune (or make a lucky fort roll), they still take your sneak, generating more through stealth/HiPs – hence, paralysis and Hips, far better than KD, though always nice to have options: to paraphrase Shakespeare (or was it his evil twin who wrote): “Oh, how do I carve thee? Let me count the ways!
Generating Paralysis vs. KD:
As noted, KD generates “limited time” sneak opps (to which rogues, base class, are predominantly limited), but KD doesn’t generate the conditions for paralysis (i.e., prone, but not out of combat); that said, nice to have anyway, and as to how it works, that’s a great question Cerolill. Basically, if your attack roll (adjusted) beats your opponent's discipline, they're knocked. It's a two-part test, and here's the formula for you on that:
"To-Hit"
1. Standard Test: Attack Roll (d20+AB (here, 44 (+2 cat's) / BioCap: 70) vs. Opponent's AC (melee'r/WM in +5 world (10 base + 1 dex + 4 tumble+ 8 plate= 23 (26 shield), +5 items: 43 (48 shield), less your stealth advantage -10 AC (as expl. above, to deny as follows: -1 dex, -4 tumble, -5 dodge (boot slot); note: didn't add haste, since typ. melee'r barring a perma-haste item don’t have UMD for haste scrolls, but even if s/he did, it's dodge and would be denied via stealth anyway), meaning: you HIT. (note: in the case of KD, your attack roll for purposes of a KD is penalized -4 for other halflings and gnomes, and -8 for med.sized PCs (everyone else), but as you can see, your stealth alone (when you catch ‘em out of combat; or in combat if they don’t have BF btw, negates penalty, and traps effects do a beautiful job of this, too ... Hmmm, seems size doesn’t matter afterall
2) second part, simple enough: having hit, next part kicks in as follows: if your attack roll (d20 + AB (naked 44 / Biocap 70) less the kd adjustment (-4 or -8) (but not the stealth adj), beats your opponent's total ranks in discipline (taking the melee warrior, whom we'll give a high STR 32, so 54 disc., + 6 str.cap = 60, but -4 disc from darkness (just another benefit, btw -- guess what? (for pvp, don't need IKD; helpful in pvm, as will let you down ogres and giants I agree (but never dragons ... w. that in mind, there's an option above under level guide should anyone want it (and should feel free of course to do so).
The Reverse:
Now, let's do that in reverse (i.e., someone trying to hit and/or KD you), shall we? Using the 'good warrior" standard AB 45 / 56 w. str. and +5 weapon (note: again, warriors don't typically have umd, so sorry, no true strike or other enhancements for them)
So, their attack roll (d20+AB 56) vs. your AC (70 w. shield -- note: only penalizes stealth btw a mere -2 which, totally up to indiv. players of course, but really, Talon more than covers off such a minor penalty (i.e., halfling race bonus gives +4 hide, +2 m/s for free, plus ranger spells (cat's, one.w., camou., and also UMD), not to mention impr.invisibility
-adjustments: stealth/invis. - they can't hit what can't see; darkness, -4 ab (they're blind; wait a sec, w. patience, they're put out of combat by darkness, too ... go paralyse ... opps, sorry, getting ahead of meself); in a straight up fight let's say, one-on-one, they gotta roll to hit to beat your AC, like normal; assuming a high roll, that’s not enough! For they not only gotta hit you, but also get around your impr.invis. (which is invisibility, only better, since it doesn't end when you attack, but becomes 50% self-concealment (that’s SC-V); meaning, half of the hits that would have hit you do not in fact hit you (and if no hit, ...
-In a mid-to-high magic world (+5 environs-plus) note: while ESF: Disc. useful in low magic (and reason why it’s there, as a precaution; but not neces in higher magic settings, as you can see (see level guide for alt. options, as in more death attack DC/skills (there you go); and/or Epic Trap setting w.o the need of any rogue-skilling gear (note: at 45 ranks +10 ESF: set trap=55 ranks, add +4 one.w., and +6 dex.cap only, et voila: 65 ranks (epic traps). As to those traps, heh heh: thanks ManyKamas – yeah, once Kail talked me into playing w. em, well, they’re great! And I never take any sneaker build (nor any dex-build even for that matter) out w.o ‘em – indeed, highly recommended (and thanks)
Special PW Question (for those places where assassins get free HiPs):
Thanks, Kurth (and long time no see, btw -- yeah, I’ve heard there are PWs give HiPs to Assassins for free (supposed to be rangers, rangers in D&D get free HiPs, but heh, either way, free HiPs? Sounds good to me, too! ) – makes SD unnecessary then (except for evasion), in which case, I totally agree with both Cinn and Thax, depending on your PW and whether you want playability, or Level 40 only
Playability Considerations:
If playability, listen to Cinn—re: rogue – 2 is just the right number to get your evasion, + another sneak die, so 156d sneak (or: 906d damage/round!), a few more skill points even, and is the only class as Cinn says (and nice to see ya, Cinn!) that can specialize in disabling/recovering epic level traps – I’d def. recommend rogue for playability (no xp burdens, and no changes whatsoever otherwise, just two free feats (where dodge and mobil are) for you to pick up ranged foci (like dem darts (mighty) or sling (bludgeon), or otherwise enjoy as you want)
Level 40 (PG Considerations):
Level 40: conversely, if looking for a straight Level 40 build, then Thax’s suggestion re: monk is a really good one: 1 monk gives evasion (would net a nasty xp penalty though; avoided by taking at level 40, which would also enable you to take another assassin level (as in, Death Attack DC 41 (or 42) (47 (48) int.cap) – (note: for this, simply bump ranger up for a pre-ep split ranger 10/assassin 10 (+1 BAB/AB, so same AB as now if go for the extra DC option (under level guide); alternatively, enjoy both +1 AB and +1 on your death DC (29 assassin/10 ranger/1 monk) by staying as is otherwise, grab EP instead of ESF: Disc (nets you another AB overall, so: Naked AB 45 (+2 cat’s/-2 dual), taking Exotic Weap. Prof. as one of your freed-feats (for kama, but also other exotics you find – like shuriken, whips, etc.), the remaining feat for as you want (IC: kama, IKD or as you want), picking up an extra assassin level and end with monk at level 40 for the disc. etc. (i.e., free cleave, and monk AC (wis.) boost to boot); would even net you another FE )
While Halflings can’t dual-wield kamas, most certainly can and would enjoy the monk’s attack progression (6 apr progression at -3 (instead of 6 apr ITWF on standard warrior’s table); that said, could put ITWF and monk table to use w. a dagger in the off-hand (works fine, so long as have a kama in main hand, and bring on that flurry, too – and that monk AC boost (that’s sweet, too!) (heh heh; guess Thax doesn’t like to be late for lunch! (just teasing – he knows I like the way he thinks; so, IF on a pw where assassins get FREE HiPs, goin’ level 40 and don’t mind goin’ LE (level 40, folks) …
Edited By TyrTemplar on 08/07/07 18:12