Ok the concept here came as I was reading the manual and under Half Elf's it say's that "they are outsiders among both culture's" so I thought why not a evil hitman style guy who worked against both of his parents race's. My Favorite Enemies for roleplaying purpose's are humans and elves. I offer to the build gods....
Build Name: The Synergy Of Seven Gender: Builder preference Race: Half Elf Alignment: Chaotic Evil Playable: pvm or party Ranger5/Assassin 13/Blackguard 22
Stats Starting/Ending Str 14 /Str 16 Dex 12 Con 12 /Con 14 Wis 12 Int 14 Cha 14 /Cha 24
Nacked AC 21 with mundane plate and tower shield AC 32
HP 398 (no rerolls)
Saves For 31 Ref 27 Wil 24
bab: 28 ab unarmed: 32/27/22/17
Quick Pros: Death Attack (+7d6) Sneak Attack (+7d6)
Quick Cons: Low hit points (around 400) will saves could be higher
Before you start the object of the build after the before mentioned concept was to get 7 to both sneak and death attacks and then also for the divine feats (cha. 24 = 7).
Ok let the constructive criticism begin.
_________________ Spirit, It is the hero's strength, the mother's resilience, and the poor man's armor. It cannot be broken, and it cannot be taken away. This I must believe. ~ Drizzt Do'Urden
Edited By sbtedarknight on 07/30/07 08:17
First off, I like the combo of Ranger/Assassin/BG.
However, I'm a little confused as to the aim of the build. I assume that you are using a melee weapon as you list stats with plate and shield, but I see no weapon focus feats, or any other way to do damage to an opponent. You state the unarmed AB, but I take it that you won't be using fists as you have no monk levels and hence attack progression/improved unarmed strike, etc. On top of that, you have only 16 strength; you're not going to hit anything.
You have plenty of potential damage, (most notably from sneak attacks/death attacks) but no way to deliver it. Even if you find a way to hit things, you can't expect to land sneak attacks with only 10 hide/MS, unless you rely entirely on KD (which would require yet more AB that you don't have); These skills are drained even further if you wear the plate and shield you list in the stats.
I also question the usefullness of only 13 assassin. Your death attack DC will suck, and the 7d6 damage bonus from death attacks can be made up for by rogue which would add the same amount from increased sneak attack damage as well as granting more skillpoints and 2 rogue bonus feats.
If assassin were to be replaced by rogue, then the use of ranger would be questionable, apart from the few buffs that drain your precious stats to cast. I would personally take fighter, for the bonus feats.
Overall, the best choice IMHO would be to go fighter 5/rogue 13/BG 22 or fighter 8/rogue 10/BG 22. I would take human, drop Divine might and charisma for strength and hence AB, take the points out of wisdom and put them where you want, I would suggest intelligence for more skillpoints. Or alternatively go dex-based for increased AC and stealth but a hit to damage, as well as going elf.
Hope these suggestions help.
All over very interesting concept. I understand that you wish to keep the entire 7 thing going, but for usefullness: Drop assassin to 10 (taking 10th assassin level on lv 37 for skill maxing) and get 25 BG levels. This gains you one more epic bonus feat (weapon focus), +1d6 sneak and improved fiendish servant. However, you lose 2d6 death attack and 6 skill points.
You dont dual wield, and you dont even get improved two weapon fighting, so taking ranger above fighter seems rather useless to me, taking fighter instead postpones your assassin levels until lv 15, and BG levels until lv 9.
But I agree with Kurth that rogue would be better in your place, even though you lose all of the assassins goodness and bonuses.
5 fighter pre epic and lv 6 on lv 21 gives you both weapon focus and weapon spec, and both in epic that this low str build needs.
I mean, 32 as max AB is almost illegally low for a melee, tho you can raise it by 2 with your bulls strength.
And the total maxed hps of this build is as follows: 22 blackguard: 1d10=220 13 assassin: 1d6=78 5 ranger: 1d10=50 Con modifier: 2=80
428 hps maxed, if my (in head) calculations are correct.
I agree with everything said. What I look for are where the stats are placed and where feats are taken. Like it was mentioned, you str at 16 isnt very useful. WHy add 2 to con? then to str then to charisma! In the past, I have built charisma builds with HUGE charisma investments (much more than 24), but in this build, it seems more important to take more str. leaving charisma at 20 with +12 will give 32! Even at 18 you will have 30 or +20 dam or def (which you may want to drop if you use a shield). The choice in Great cleave.. While not going for Dev crit, DONT BOTHER! Wasted feat. You could take toughness in its place to get same HP that the 2 con give +1 to ab and damage!! WOOT
From what I have seen, you are trying to do too much. The reality is that you cannot do everything in ONE lv 40 build. There is NO such thing as the UBER build. Every build has its weaknessess. Trust me on this. I have a cleric with an evo dc on implosion of 47 at lv 22 (i play prc server almost exclusivly for those that do the math and wonder HOW the F#$k!!) and yet, when it comes to mages, he sucks! I also have a HUGE dev critter with insane dc and yet, sucks vs constructs!
imvho, decide what you want and design for it. DONT try to do too much (which is what is done here). Your build, in the end will be sucky.
Thank You for the replies, after reading them I think this probably say's everything best.
Quote: Posted 07/30/07 19:49 (GMT) -- avado From what I have seen, you are trying to do too much.
Anyways to K U R T H thank you for the input and Im glad you like the concept. The aim was an Half-elf hitman type that only did contracts on humans and elves. O and there was no weapon focus just using whatever's handy (except exotic weapons)
to Cerolill: thanks it is a interesting concept if I can just refine it more. As for the ranger levels the 5 give me 2 favored enemies (Humans/Elves) while still allowing for enough levels(35) to achive both 7DA and SA . Also I don't want to sound unappreciative to either kurth or you but if I had wanted a rogue/fighter/blakguard its what I would have tried to make.
to avado: I agree that there is no such thing as a completley uber build (there are however extremely powerful ones) I wasn't trying for uberness just trying to build a unique character that others might help me refine.
Just for comparison this is what the original looked like.
build name: unnamed (original to s.o.s.) Gender: Builder Preference Race: Half Elf Alignment: Chaotic Evil Ranger 10 / Assassin 11 /Blackguard 19 stats starting/ending Str 14 Dex 13 / 18 Con 12 Wis 11 / 12 Int 14 Cha 14 / 18
Naked Ac 24 W/ mundane scale Ac 28 Hp 352(as always no rerolls)
Saves For 27 Ref 27 wil 27
Bab: 28 Ab unarmed: 33/28/23/18 with dual short swords main hand 32/27/22/17 off hand 28/23
Total Skills: 220 Placement: Disable Trap(dt) 30 discipline(di) 30 HIde(hi) 20 Listen(li) 15 Move Silently(ms) 15 Open Lock(ol) 30 Tumble(tu) 40 Use Magic Device(um) 40
As I said before: Thank You for the replies.
_________________ Spirit, It is the hero's strength, the mother's resilience, and the poor man's armor. It cannot be broken, and it cannot be taken away. This I must believe. ~ Drizzt Do'Urden
Edited By sbtedarknight on 07/31/07 02:33
I know you aren't going for "uber" power, but a 33 AB with his chosen weapons is pretty low. You are also wasting a lot of epic feats on stuff he doesn't need - ESF: Open locks, Epic Reputation, Iron will, etc.
He has lots of sneak damage, and he is designed to attack humans and elves, not undead or other sneak-immunes, so skip Divine Might - another 4 points isn't going to make a difference. I would start with Str 13, Dex 15, Con 10 (or 12), Wis 12, Int 14, Cha 10 (or 12). Pump Dex at every level up. You can pick whether to boost Con for HP or Cha for the save bonus.
In Epic, I would drop Divine Might, Divine Shield, both ESFs, Iron WIll and Epic Reputation for Great Dex. You should end up with Dex at 32.
I would rearrange the levels - take more BG/Ranger pre-epic and more Assassin in Epic. Pre-epic, go Ranger 9/BG 7/As 4 - this will get you to 19 BAB. To be honest, if you are going to bother with Assassin at all, I would put most of the Epic levels as Assassin to get the Death Attack DC up. I'd end up either Ranger 9/BG 17/Assassin 24 or drop 2 BG levels (losing 1 BAB due to 6 Assassin levels pre-epic) to end up Ranger 9/BG 5/As 26 (for the extra Assassin bonus feat). Either way you still end up with 14d6 sneak damage, and still get most of the Blackguard class feats.
For skills, you need Search to make Disable traps worthwhile (you can't disable them if you don't detect them first). You need a 22 search to detect up to Deadly traps, and a 16 Disable trap to disarm them. I would definitely max Hide and MS - you're an Assassin, you primary job is to sneak up on some one and hit them with a Death Attack. You can max Open Locks if you want to break into their homes.
It would look something like this:
Ranger(9), Blackguard(7), Assassin(24), Half-Elf
STR: 14 DEX: 15 (32) CON: 10 or 12 WIS: 12 INT: 14 CHA: 10 or 12
Hitpoints: 304 (or 344 if Con is 12) Skillpoints: 244 Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 22/17/30 (add +1 if Cha is 12) Saving Throw bonuses: Mind Effects: +2, Traps: +2, Poison: +6 BAB: 29 AB (max, naked): 44 (melee), 41 (ranged) AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 31/34 Spell Casting: Ranger(2)
Note that you pick up a whopping +11 to AB - that will let you hit with that first Death attack. You also got KD/IKD, so if the DA fails, you can still knock them down to generate sneak damage. I skipped Discipline, since you don't have enough Str to make it useful anyway.
You could free up 1 Epic feat by starting Dex at 16 (leaving both Cha and Con at 10).
I know you aren't going for "uber" power, but a 33 AB with his chosen weapons is pretty low.
Thanks for understanding and I agree. Rember this was a rough draft for a character.
Quote: You are also wasting a lot of epic feats on stuff he doesn't need - ESF: Open locks, Epic Reputation, Iron will, etc.
As to the locks and traps I was just thinking to boost skills. the 2 will feats were taken to equal out the saves (I thought it was nifty getting all to the same level) and for e.rep it was that or e.fiendish servant or epic toughness.
Quote: He has lots of sneak damage, and he is designed to attack humans and elves, not undead or other sneak-immunes, so skip Divine Might - another 4 points isn't going to make a difference.
The divine feats were just for help if I was having problems (you know divine damage can be helpful sometimes).
Quote: I would rearrange the levels - take more BG/Ranger pre-epic and more Assassin in Epic.
The level progession pre epic was to achieve the following: 9 ranger levels for the twf feats (including itwf) as well as the 2 fe's. the 7 assassin levels were to get darkness and invisibility, and the 4 blackguard levels for turn undead and the 1 sneak attack. bab was not a factor. (I hope that all made sense)
Quote: For skills, you need Search to make Disable traps worthwhile (you can't disable them if you don't detect them first).
I didnt have the skills done (recorded) when I posted (synergy) so I did a quick rebuild on the novice to epic C.C. so I could get the stats and skills (for the original), apparently I forgot search .
As for the complete rebuild I don't even know how to respond . I do however have to say thank you for not changing the concept while still helping with refinement, awesome.
_________________ Spirit, It is the hero's strength, the mother's resilience, and the poor man's armor. It cannot be broken, and it cannot be taken away. This I must believe. ~ Drizzt Do'Urden
I know you aren't going for "uber" power, but a 33 AB with his chosen weapons is pretty low.
Thanks for understanding and I agree. Rember this was a rough draft for a character.
THIS part of the forum is for FINISHED builds ONLY! If you want to do a test you use the forum Build Request! imho, a mod should move this post to the appropriate area.
Quote: Posted 07/31/07 22:33 (GMT) -- avado THIS part of the forum is for FINISHED builds ONLY! .
I know, but when I stated this:
Quote: Posted 07/31/07 20:58 (GMT) -- sbtedarknight Thanks for understanding and I agree. Rember this was a rough draft for a character.
I was refering to the second build that was posted (as a comparison to my final build, to show where I started at) it was obvious that tm was commenting on it and not the first one.
_________________ Spirit, It is the hero's strength, the mother's resilience, and the poor man's armor. It cannot be broken, and it cannot be taken away. This I must believe. ~ Drizzt Do'Urden
Edited By sbtedarknight on 07/31/07 23:37
Actually, I was more or less discussing both - my suggestions would be the same for either one.
TM
Sorry then tm. I thought you were talking about the second one since you picked it's feats when refering to the build and what should be redone, my mistake.
_________________ Spirit, It is the hero's strength, the mother's resilience, and the poor man's armor. It cannot be broken, and it cannot be taken away. This I must believe. ~ Drizzt Do'Urden
.
. I do however have to say thank you for not changing the concept while still helping with refinement, awesome. 
Sorry then tm. I thought you were talking about the second one since you picked it's feats when refering to the build and what should be redone, my mistake.