with apologies to the dwarflord's mestil's pale emissary ( Click Here ) and yrtsns's grim conjurer ( Click Here )
this level breakdown is a build that is quite popular on my PW, and routinely destroys my exalted sorc build. i'm new to casting pvp, so it may just be my quickbar skills, but this build appeals to me as a more versatile character than an exalted sorc. those players with this type of build have not been forthcoming about their feat selection and initial stat distribution, so I am attempting to work out my own version. first, a few words about my PW. weapons with AB 15 are available, but difficult to obtain and are artificially limited via DM spawns. there are many higher CR monsters around, making exploring certain regions difficult for even parties of 4 level 40 players. what i've arrived at, is that at least for my PW, an AC caster is still going to be brought down quickly. my concept here is to be a viable caster for caster v. caster pvp, and also to outlast fighters with spam KD. they are eventually going to need to take a break from wailing on your damage shields to chug a heal, at which point you will escape with gsanc, and bigby's grasping them.
01: Sorcerer(1): Toughness 02: Sorcerer(2) 03: Sorcerer(3): Extend Spell 04: Pale Master(1): CHA+1, (CHA=17) 05: Pale Master(2) 06: Sorcerer(4): Empower Spell 07: Pale Master(3): {Darkvision} 08: Pale Master(4): CHA+1, (CHA=18) 09: Sorcerer(5): Silent Spell 10: Pale Master(5) 11: Pale Master(6) 12: Sorcerer(6): CHA+1, Maximize Spell, (CHA=19) 13: Pale Master(7) 14: Pale Master(8) 15: Sorcerer(7): Spell Focus: Evocation 16: Pale Master(9): CHA+1, (CHA=20) 17: Pale Master(10) 18: Sorcerer(8): Greater Spell Focus: Evocation 19: Sorcerer(9) 20: Sorcerer(10): CHA+1, (CHA=21) 21: Sorcerer(11): Great Charisma I, (CHA=22) 22: Sorcerer(12) 23: Sorcerer(13) 24: Sorcerer(14): CHA+1, Great Charisma II, (CHA=24) 25: Sorcerer(15) 26: Sorcerer(16) 27: Sorcerer(17): Great Charisma III, (CHA=25) 28: Sorcerer(18): CHA+1, (CHA=26) 29: Sorcerer(19) 30: Sorcerer(20): Great Charisma IV, (CHA=27) 31: Sorcerer(21) 32: Sorcerer(22): CHA+1, (CHA=28) 33: Sorcerer(23): Great Charisma V, Epic Spell Focus: Evocation, (CHA=29) 34: Sorcerer(24) 35: Sorcerer(25) 36: Sorcerer(26): CHA+1, Great Charisma VI, Great Charisma VII, (CHA=32) 37: Sorcerer(27) 38: Sorcerer(28) 39: Sorcerer(29): Epic Spell: Epic Warding, Great Charisma VIII, (CHA=33) 40: Paladin(1): CHA+1, (CHA=34), *Alignment Change to lawful good*
So 01: Concentration(4), Spellcraft(4), So 02: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 03: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), PM 04: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), PM 05: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 06: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), PM 07: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), PM 08: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 09: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), PM 10: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), PM 11: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 12: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), PM 13: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), PM 14: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 15: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), PM 16: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), PM 17: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 18: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 19: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 20: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 21: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 22: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 23: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 24: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 25: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 26: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 27: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 28: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 29: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 30: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 31: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 32: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 33: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 34: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 35: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 36: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 37: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 38: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), So 39: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), P 40: Concentration(1), Taunt(1),
advantages: 29 caster levels with reasonable DC, spells/day immunity to critical hits high HP, up to 684 with +12 to con immunity to evard's black tentacles good saves ESF evocation to improve the DC of bigby's grasping epic warding to increase survivability in PvP situations such as 2 on 1 (fighter and caster vs. you) silent spell is thrown in for extra slots and to have some defense against fighters with silence cast on them
disadvantages: you WILL be hit, and hit often. use con boosting items to improve concentration, bigby's interposing to reduce opponents AB, and rely on bigby's grasping to immobilize high AB foes small stature loses 4 on the bullrush check of bigby's forceful, but we will be using this on casters and dex builds anyway
one variation would be going 10 dex and 8 wiz to boost the reflex save a little at the expense of the already high will save.
Out of curiousity, how does this build beat an Exalted Sorcerer? The only difference seems to be PM for Monk and that just adds crit immunity which wouldn't be an issue for a caster like the Exalted. Seems like Monk's Evasion would cause some trouble for a caster's Evocation. There is still Necromancy of course, but it still seems handy.
Out of curiousity, how does this build beat an Exalted Sorcerer? The only difference seems to be PM for Monk and that just adds crit immunity which wouldn't be an issue for a caster like the Exalted. Seems like Monk's Evasion would cause some trouble for a caster's Evocation. There is still Necromancy of course, but it still seems handy.
i don't know, seems to have more spell slots than my exalted sorc, and i guess i'm just bad at pvp casting. any comments on the build?
I'm not an expert on this sort of build but, why is the one level of Paladin delayed until level 40? Wouldnt it be more helpful earlier in the build? I dont see a Discipline dump in your skill spread. Your build looks pretty good. Though, I believe the Exalted Sorceress can cast with full plate armor on. I dont remember much of that build. Hopefully someone else can offer you more advice.
Out of curiousity, how does this build beat an Exalted Sorcerer? The only difference seems to be PM for Monk and that just adds crit immunity which wouldn't be an issue for a caster like the Exalted. Seems like Monk's Evasion would cause some trouble for a caster's Evocation. There is still Necromancy of course, but it still seems handy.
i don't know, seems to have more spell slots than my exalted sorc, and i guess i'm just bad at pvp casting. any comments on the build?
The only thing that affects spell slots after level 20 is your casting ability modifier and gear so I'd think the slots would be about the same. Casting does take practice. I still fumble with the quickslots on the mage I've been playing for close to a year.
Quote: Posted 10/17/07 02:28 (GMT) -- galelabriel
I'm not an expert on this sort of build but, why is the one level of Paladin delayed until level 40? Wouldnt it be more helpful earlier in the build? I dont see a Discipline dump in your skill spread. Your build looks pretty good. Though, I believe the Exalted Sorceress can cast with full plate armor on. I dont remember much of that build. Hopefully someone else can offer you more advice.
i guess the paly level could go anywhere, really, i just find it convenient to place it at 40 so it doesn't mess up feats.
a discipline dump would give me 41 discipline max due to the str of 6. this is useless against an kd with ab of 65, which is where a lot of the good fighter builds sit. note the int of 10, giving me only 2 skills.
the exalted sorc does indeed take all 3 autostill feats. i felt that even with full plate, tower shield, etc, on my server, i am still going to be hit, KDed, and painfully critted (the exalted sorc has a lot less hp than this build) so i opted for PM 10.
Out of curiousity, how does this build beat an Exalted Sorcerer? The only difference seems to be PM for Monk and that just adds crit immunity which wouldn't be an issue for a caster like the Exalted. Seems like Monk's Evasion would cause some trouble for a caster's Evocation. There is still Necromancy of course, but it still seems handy.
i don't know, seems to have more spell slots than my exalted sorc, and i guess i'm just bad at pvp casting. any comments on the build?
The only thing that affects spell slots after level 20 is your casting ability modifier and gear so I'd think the slots would be about the same. Casting does take practice. I still fumble with the quickslots on the mage I've been playing for close to a year.
Out of curiousity, how does this build beat an Exalted Sorcerer? The only difference seems to be PM for Monk and that just adds crit immunity which wouldn't be an issue for a caster like the Exalted. Seems like Monk's Evasion would cause some trouble for a caster's Evocation. There is still Necromancy of course, but it still seems handy.
i was thinking more about this, and looking at the exalted sorc, my build has +4 cha, meaning slightly more spell slots. therefore, if i wanted to take on an exalted sorc 1 on 1, i would equip items for +12 cha, sacrificing my con boosting items, and be able to outlast an exalted sorc in pure casting, as i'd still have that +4 cha advantage. i'd have more spell mantles, more flame arrows, more bigby's forceful, and more IGMS/ILMS/EBT (EBT being useful if the exalted sorc is human, after they've been bull rushed with bigby's forceful, watch as you cast maximized EBT for ~150 damage per round). you of course would want to use saveless damage spells such as the ones i mentioned above. all of your saves are better than an exalted sorc.
Edited By fbr123 on 10/17/07 14:49
sorry i'm going off on a tanget, but it seems like the regulars on this board are a little more accessable than trying to get responses in the general discussion forum.
i was reading the description of bigby's crushing, and a "cut-scene" effect is mentioned, which as i'm interpreting it, causes some trouble for people with freedom. can someone elaborate?
also, on my PW, there is a difficult to obtain large shield that give improved evasion as a bonus feat. large shields cause 15% spell failure, i was wondering if you guys could comment on if you think that is an acceptable trade off.
Quote: Posted 10/17/07 14:59 (GMT) -- fbr123 i was reading the description of bigby's crushing, and a "cut-scene" effect is mentioned, which as i'm interpreting it, causes some trouble for people with freedom. can someone elaborate?
It means Freedom is no protection against Bigby's grapples. You'll be held there but, at least, you will be able to drink potions, swap gear and attack back if someone comes close enough. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Quote: Posted 10/17/07 14:59 (GMT) -- fbr123 i was reading the description of bigby's crushing, and a "cut-scene" effect is mentioned, which as i'm interpreting it, causes some trouble for people with freedom. can someone elaborate?
It means Freedom is no protection against Bigby's grapples. You'll be held there but, at least, you will be able to drink potions, swap gear and attack back if someone comes close enough.
then simply using a mords or dispel on yourself frees you, gotcha.
ps: any comments on the build?
Edited By fbr123 on 10/17/07 16:24
doing a bit more research, it seems that
* spell focus, greater spell focus, and epic spell focus: evocation have no effect whatsoever on the Bigby line of spells. *
please correct me if i'm wrong.
in that case, another variation on the build would be to go SF, GSF, and ESF necromancy.
against melee opponents will lower will saves, i would use empowered NEB to do between 5 to 10 str damage (thus raising the effective DC of bigby's forceful by 2 to 5) in conjuction with bigby's forceful, or more likely, bigby's crushing or grasping.
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"punchy the lich" has a similar level breakdown and feat selection. oops. to the author of punchy the lich, i'd be interested in seeing this "Sid" build that you were inspired by, i can't find it.
Quote: Posted 10/17/07 02:28 (GMT) -- galelabriel
I'm not an expert on this sort of build but, why is the one level of Paladin delayed until level 40? Wouldnt it be more helpful earlier in the build?
also, no xp penalty if i delay paly till level 40.