There are a number of Cleric Monk SD builds out there, but none with this level split.
This build focuses on HIPSing + Blade Barrier + Implosion.
I wanted a VERY high DC Blade Barrier and Imploder that could Hide and lure monsters onto his Blade Traps. This is mainly a PvM build.
Monk levels were taken every 5 so as to improve Tumble on an appropriate level and to boost hide/ms too.
You could take Zen archery early and move some feats around. Probably have to drop the Great Wisdom feats if you do that. I figured that this guy only needs to attract attention he is not meant to do damage with a sling or anything.
This build works GREAT if paired with someone else who can hips. Monster AI is weak so they will always walk upon a Blade Barrier. Two people who HIPS can bounce them back and forth across the blades with ease.
This build also works great if you are on a world that allow Drow (who has a preferred class of Cleric). The spell resistance of Drow goes a long way.
The tactic is to memorize as many Blade Barriers and Implodes as you can. Hammer of the Gods, Stinking Cloud, Flame Strike are all backup spells for when you run out of blades.
Using battletide is also a good idea since that will lower your enemy saves against the blades if you are standing near them. And if they are chasing you... you will be near.
The Improved Invis spell should also be taken of course.
As a 30th level caster, you'll have a darn better chance at overcoming SR than most multiclass casters out there.
Boosting Evocation and Penetration is important on this build.
Sure you stop getting spells at cleric level 20, but the last 10 levels are purely to boost spell DC and ability to overcome SR. Extra turning ability is also nice vs those noobish Risen Lords.
Quote: Sure you stop getting spells at cleric level 20, but the last 10 levels are purely to boost spell DC and ability to overcome SR.
Spell DC isn't boosted by class levels, only by prime ability score (WIS) and feats such as Spell Focus.
Zen Archery goes a long way in this build. Having the ability to actually hit someone in combat, although you rely on spells, is always nice.
Shouldn't your naked AC be 20 and not 30?
Taking ICC without Expertise/IE is somewhat useless, because a decent Concentration score will enable you to cast in Defensive Casting Mode, which is the same as ICC (although it doesn't allow to have Expertise on at the same time). Maybe you could drop Extra Turning (your Charisma is kind of low) and Maximize Spell (you already have Empower) for Expertise and Improved Expertise.
Other than that, I haven't made any calculations, but are your DCs that high?
Quote: Posted 11/26/07 20:21 (GMT) -- rafa10pj Shouldn't your naked AC be 20 and not 30?
Oh, I forgot Monk AC and WIS bonus.
Quote: Posted 11/26/07 19:42 (GMT) -- Bromium
This build works GREAT if paired with someone else who can hips. Monster AI is weak so they will always walk upon a Blade Barrier. Two people who HIPS can bounce them back and forth across the blades with ease.
This build also works great if you are on a world that allow Drow (who has a preferred class of Cleric). The spell resistance of Drow goes a long way.
The tactic is to memorize as many Blade Barriers and Implodes as you can. Hammer of the Gods, Stinking Cloud, Flame Strike are all backup spells for when you run out of blades.
Using battletide is also a good idea since that will lower your enemy saves against the blades if you are standing near them. And if they are chasing you... you will be near.
The Improved Invis spell should also be taken of course.
As a 30th level caster, you'll have a darn better chance at overcoming SR than most multiclass casters out there.
Boosting Evocation and Penetration is important on this build.
Sure you stop getting spells at cleric level 20, but the last 10 levels are purely to boost spell DC and ability to overcome SR. Extra turning ability is also nice vs those noobish Risen Lords.
First, Bromi, forgive the youngling.. im guessin he hasnt noticed MODERATOR under your name yet (and that you have been around longer than even ME!! but not mith iirc)..
I had to say something about the strategy you put up. The better players use this strategy ALOT when fighting things like a boss where AC may be high to stand toe to toe (though with a cleric you always can boost ab..) HIPS isnt a great thing to do though, iirc. See, the secret to the strat is to lay down 5 or 10 ON THE SAME SPOT. That way you get them rolling for their life every step. THen you want them to follow you, so going invis defeats the purpose. There are many different running paths, but as long as you are crossing them over the row of blades (one on top the others) they will die quickly.
I know you use implode, but I love SOV for the stun affects (oh its lv 9 so those pesky raks cant beat it muahahahahaha). SOV with firestorm OR sov with Mass HEals are great herding spell combos to kill large amounts of monsters in short periods of time.
I best shut up now, else I turn everyone on to clerics... _________________
Quote: Posted 11/26/07 21:39 (GMT) -- avado I had to say something about the strategy you put up. The better players use this strategy ALOT when fighting things like a boss where AC may be high to stand toe to toe (though with a cleric you always can boost ab..) HIPS isnt a great thing to do though, iirc. See, the secret to the strat is to lay down 5 or 10 ON THE SAME SPOT. That way you get them rolling for their life every step. THen you want them to follow you, so going invis defeats the purpose. There are many different running paths, but as long as you are crossing them over the row of blades (one on top the others) they will die quickly.
I think that his strategy is to position one player on one side of the Blade Barrier, and the other one on the other side. With the enemy in between, when one HiPSes, the enemy will run towards the other player, effectively stepping over the Blade Barrier. When reaching the other one, he would HiPS... rinse and repeat.
But maybe you said this already avado. It's not a good thinking day for me. I'll just stop speaking for my (low) repputation's sake.
Rafa, Youngling (tm.)
Edited By rafa10pj on 11/27/07 00:42
Quote: Posted 11/26/07 20:21 (GMT) -- rafa10pj
Spell DC isn't boosted by class levels, only by prime ability score (WIS) and feats such as Spell Focus.
True, I meant ability to overcome SR, not DC. Thanks for pointing that out.
Quote: Zen Archery goes a long way in this build. Having the ability to actually hit someone in combat, although you rely on spells, is always nice. [\quote]
I disagree, since no other weapon damage boosting feats are taken, tossing a stone at someone is nearly useless. A sling (for this build) is only used to grab attention from afar.
(quote) Taking ICC without Expertise/IE is somewhat useless, because a decent Concentration score will enable you to cast in Defensive Casting Mode, which is the same as ICC (although it doesn't allow to have Expertise on at the same time). Maybe you could drop Extra Turning (your Charisma is kind of low) and Maximize Spell (you already have Empower) for Expertise and Improved Expertise.
Other than that, I haven't made any calculations, but are your DCs that high?
Didn't take Extra Turning, I did take Extend Spell (for more blades).
ICC was so that I can cast near monsters without provoking an AoO. Didn't bother with Improved Expertise because I'll be normally outside of melle range when casting, then HIPSing right away. And that's 2 feats I can spend doing other things.
=====
Avado, I still have a lot to learn. My butt constantly gets handed to me during BoW pvp play time.
Quote: Posted 11/26/07 19:42 (GMT) -- Bromium Didn't take Extra Turning, I did take Extend Spell (for more blades).
Quote: ICC was so that I can cast near monsters without provoking an AoO. Didn't bother with Improved Expertise because I'll be normally outside of melle range when casting, then HIPSing right away. And that's 2 feats I can spend doing other things.
I probably didn't explain myself correctly. Defensive Casting Mode allows one to cast without taking AoOs. However, there is a Concentration DC, which is 19 + the level of the spell you're casting (assuming you didn't take Combat Casting which lowers the DC by 4). So, with a Concentration of 28 (or 24 if you have Combat Casting), you can cast in DCM without taking any AoOs and without taking Combat Casting or ICC. Taking into consideration that you will be maxing Concentration whenever it is possible, it is safe to cast in DCM and totally forego CC and ICC. ICC comes handy when Expertise/Improved Expertise are available, because one can't activate DCM and Expertise at the same time.
Edited By rafa10pj on 11/27/07 03:25
I think I took Extra Turning because of my high levels in Cleric and the fact that I could also damage constructs. I figured it was worth is since a buff or two could give me extra CHA anyways.
I'll have to playtest the defensive casting aspect. I think there was a reason... it just escapes me at the moment.
If I remember correctly DC is calculated as follows: 10 + ability modifier + feat modifier + spell level, for your 28 WIS that's 25 + spell level, so a DC of 34 on a level 9 spell (I've read that Implosion gets an extra +3 or something weird like that), if you can buff your WIS you'll get an extra +6 for a DC of 40, except that Clerics aren't WIS buffers like Druids (I just love Owl's Insight), you'd need equipment. That is a regularly good DC I guess, if I'm correct the max buffed spell DC is 48, you ain't that far, but it isn't astonishing either, just about any caster usually gets higher base scores, so "VERY high" is just not the correct expression, sorry Bromium.
I agree with avado, Storm of Vengeance rocks, it stuns great, it can deal heavy damage over time, and Evasion doesn't work against it, you should try it in your strategy as well, too bad it's conjuration. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Quote: Posted 11/27/07 23:01 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia I agree with avado, Storm of Vengeance rocks, it stuns great, it can deal heavy damage over time, and Evasion doesn't work against it, you should try it in your strategy as well, too bad it's conjuration.
WOW! I have been using this spell ALOT and I always got excellent DC with it (with 19 wis AND not even +12 to wis!!) I just checked and I get 38 per attack from sov! Then again, I only play prc these days (find it gives more than nwn2 does) and LOVE Heirophant class (think red wiz of thay for clerics = + 10 spell power for 5 lvls investment). It ROOOCKKKKS!!!!
I agree with avado, Storm of Vengeance rocks, it stuns great, it can deal heavy damage over time, and Evasion doesn't work against it, you should try it in your strategy as well, too bad it's conjura
Quote: Posted 11/27/07 23:01 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia (I've read that Implosion gets an extra +3 or something weird like that).
It does, so Implosion is the best save or die spell in the game, taking DCs into consideration only (also, death immunity doesn't cover this spell). Area of effect is medium, so in that aspect, Wail of the Banshee is more effective, due being colossal.
Quote: Posted 11/28/07 03:22 (GMT) -- avado
WOW! I have been using this spell ALOT and I always got excellent DC with it (with 19 wis AND not even +12 to wis!!) I just checked and I get 38 per attack from sov! Then again, I only play prc these days (find it gives more than nwn2 does) and LOVE Heirophant class (think red wiz of thay for clerics = + 10 spell power for 5 lvls investment). It ROOOCKKKKS!!!!
There should be something there that boosts your DC, I'm using a Druid with buffed WIS score of 35 (+12 modifier) with epic spell focus conjuration and my DC is 37, a number that does makes sense according to the calculation, yours is weird.
What I did found weird though is that I'm dealing overdamage, the spell description says 3d6 acid + 3d6 electrical on failed save but I'm dealing regularly around 18 - 26 electrical, like if it were 6d6. Of course I'm not complaining, I really like it, but I find it pretty weird, it's a very nice addition considering nobody seems to resist a DC of 37 by level 21.
Quote: btw, thanks for the new sig
No problem, glad to be of service, as usual. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
What I did found weird though is that I'm dealing overdamage, the spell description says 3d6 acid + 3d6 electrical on failed save but I'm dealing regularly around 18 - 26 electrical, like if it were 6d6. Of course I'm not complaining, I really like it, but I find it pretty weird, it's a very nice addition considering nobody seems to resist a DC of 37 by level 21.
Maybe your adversary is vulnerable to that elemental damage. That would give you a boost in damage.
I'm not that sloppy, everybody is recieving the extra damage, examination shows no electrical vulnerabilities, that's why I sy it's strange, but I don't know if it's my server or something, it shouldn't, SOV is not changed. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 11/29/07 03:06
The extra dc comes from Heirophant. You get +10 to ALL spell DCs... ALLL spell dcs! That and clerics gettin what I call "pocket pale master" is why i have strayed down the prc road and will NEVER return.. Muhahahahahaha
(if you think clerics are overpowered, come to the mountain and I will teach you HOW extremely overpowered a REAL cleric can be!!!) _________________
Very nice build, and I see a lot of good suggestions above, but I'm surprised no one suggested dropping 1 Cleric level for 1 more Shadowdancer, so you get Uncanny Dodge. That's about the only change I would make there.
