Fort 23 +5 Con Gear +5 CoT +4 Epic Fort +1 Racial Bonus +10 Save Gear = 48 (56 vs Spell) Reflex 23 +16 Dex +5 CoT +1 Racial Bonus +10 Save Gear = 55 (63 vs Spell) Will 22 +8 Wis +5 CoT +1 Racial Bonus +10 Save Gear = 46 (54 vs Spell)
So, even though I know that the search engine is very much out of date, I was still surprised to see a complete lack of this class combination. While there are literally dozens of good levels splits for this class combination, this one happens to be one of my favorites. It’s a pretty decent PvP build that works great with a team, but can also stand toe to toe with most other builds by itself. Plus, who doesn’t like dual kukri Halfling monks?
First off, the leveling progression is somewhat flexible, especially the first 10 levels. If you like leveling to be a little easier, you can certainly take wiz a little sooner rather than later. I prefer to put off XP penalties as long as possible, and also prefer the simplest route when leveling, so that’s why I chose the progression I did.
Also, I recreated this entirely from memory, so if my math or anything else is off, don’t be afraid to point it out.
Quote: Plus, who doesn’t like dual kukri Halfling monks?
Read my signature.
It looks pretty decent, but really, why do you make a dual-kukri wielding Monk? you can just take kama, so you don't need to waste a feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency and increase your APR from 6 to 9, that's plenty of more damage, if not why take Monk at all? Fighter would do better for Kukris.
Ouch, 6 STR and 8 CON, that is probably quite hard to play in low levels, and you can carry only your own wieght.
Odd, you take Silent Spell without having Empowered or Maximized, which are more useful in effective casting and buffing. Epic Mage Armor is also not a good feat if you're only picking 1 epic spell, Epic Warding is incredibly stronger.
By the way, writing buffed stats is perfect and it's good that you do so, but writing your gear as a "buff" destroys the reference of your builds' power, because that's supposing your build can and will only be played on an area where those items are available. Say, your build is not capable of making a +20 armor so it's not part of your builds' strength and thus, an incorrect AC reference. In order to write buffed stats you should only use the buffs that your character gets, you can buff armor pretty well with a level 21 Wizard, but not so much.
You forgot the skill table, your INT is too high to pick just Discipline and Spellcraft, it's part of the rules. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 12/21/07 19:15
If I were you, I would take more Wizard levels pre-epic. You'll sacrifice AB, but you greatly increase playability. You have 6 STR and 8 CON, so you need buffs to stay alive early. If it were an instant level 40 build, then yes, delay all but one Wizard levels till epic.
Epic Mage Armor just doesn't cut it. As was said, take Epic Warding. However, I would drop that last Wizard level and take one more Monk level. +1 AC and another skilldump, at level 27 maybe.
Again, why not use kamas? You have 6 STR, so you want many APR to inflict decent damage. Flame Weapon won't come until late in the build, and when it does, it won't last much.
Edit: Oh, I saw you mentioned the early Wizard levels. My bad.
Edited By rafa10pj on 12/21/07 21:32
The build gains a feat and 2 APR by going kama so give Hiwatt some slack, he's obviously building towards a particular PW
I am astounded that this level split hasn't been explored. Well done, it's fairly iconic.
I wouldn't go more wizard in pre-epic, I'd do it like you've done. It's not like AB is irrelevant with the build.
To quote an ol friend, "I know you think you understand what you wrote, but I'm not so sure you understand what you think you wrote.."
AC is a finite thing. You ONLY have 5 types: natural, shield, armor, deflection, dodge. There are no others, iirc. The ONLY one that stacks is dodge AC. All the others require the highest to be considered only. Here is where you confuse your own issue: +20 gear? It is at this point that you loose your credibility. What is +20? armor? shield? pluses on these? Then you attempt to list epic mage armor! That is now +20 Armor AC, not 5/5/5/5 as it used to be...
Maybe, lets try this: 10 base+ 10 dex +2 AS + 8 tumble (dodge AC) + 4 haste (dodge) + 20 ema (armor) [cannot take mage armor cuz it is armor ac] +1 racial = 55 AC
Now, you can add +8 dodge, +10-20 natural (10 is highest i have seen on ammy) + 10-20 deflection (again, 10 is highest i have seen on ring or cloak). IF you maxed these out, you would have 103!!!! whooo hooo!! But lets take a more modest look, 83 AC (assume +10 and full dodge +8).
And, lest we forget, IF we used a shield *faints*. So, by NOT tying your build to items, but using a possible item scenario, I have given YOUR build more ac than you did. That said, for a dexer, non-pm, 55 ac isnt too shabby, never mind what items you find. Hoooray! _________________
Quote: Posted 12/23/07 20:59 (GMT) -- avado Maybe, lets try this: 10 base+ 10 dex +2 AS + 8 tumble (dodge AC) + 4 haste (dodge) + 20 ema (armor) [cannot take mage armor cuz it is armor ac] +1 racial = 55 AC
.....
And, lest we forget, IF we used a shield *faints*. So, by NOT tying your build to items, but using a possible item scenario, I have given YOUR build more ac than you did. That said, for a dexer, non-pm, 55 ac isnt too shabby, never mind what items you find. Hoooray!
The regular Mage Armour spell does add a +1 dodge AC IIRC.
Edited By K U R T H on 12/25/07 00:53
Quote: Posted 12/22/07 07:07 (GMT) -- Ithacan
The build gains a feat and 2 APR by going kama so give Hiwatt some slack, he's obviously building towards a particular PW
I am astounded that this level split hasn't been explored. Well done, it's fairly iconic.
I wouldn't go more wizard in pre-epic, I'd do it like you've done. It's not like AB is irrelevant with the build.
Cheers, nicely done.
Ithacan
Thanks. Ithacan hit the nail on the head with this build. It IS for a specific PW, that being Badlands. It is also specifically for level 40 PvP. When building it, I didn't take making leveling easier into consideration, as leveling is quite easy on Badlands, and its only purpose is to level your character to 40 for PvP, which is when the real fun begins. This, and every build I post on here has this in mind. I leave it up to you to decide what changes would need to be made to adjust it to your own unique PW. Questions along those lines, therefore, are unnecessary, but I will answer them anyhow.
Now. First off, the kama/kukri question, as articulated most vociferously by Thaxll'ssyllia, and repeated by others. Have you ever made a halfling that dual wields kamas? You do know that it incurs a -4 ab penalty, right? High APR are nice to have, but not everything with monk levels has to use kamas, despite what your signature says. Kukris have a much better critical threat range, also. I'd lose an APR or two to go from an 18-20 to a 12-20 crit range any day. 1 kama could work, but on my PW, were I to go the route of using the more favorable Monk attack schedule, I'd simply go unarmed, as there are +6 gloves, but only +5 kamas.
Side note: I do have another build of this that is an Elf with dual kamas, as well. In my experience of playing both extensively in a PvP environment, the halfling simply kills faster. The critical threat range makes all the difference, although the elf was easier to level, having no XP penalty.
Also, about the metamagic feats. I have no need for Empowered or Maximized spell at all with this on my PW. I don't need to stack Bulls or other buffs. Neither does this build ever bother with offensive spells other than the occasional Negative Energy Burst, depending on the opponent. It simply does not have to rely on spells to damage opponents. It uses them to augment its melee abilities. Extend and Silent are far more useful, when I can slot 17 True Strikes, Extended Displacements and Darkness, and adjust the number of Balagarns Iron Horns I can slot when fighting Dex builds from 6ish to 15ish, which, btw, goes spectacularly with Breaches, of which, I usually slot 8 or more.
Epic Warding over Epic Mage Armor? Not on my PW. Warding is nerfed to +7/50, and there are a couple of relatively easy to get +7 weapons, making Warding almost useless, which is fine with me. 5 more AC trumps that any day. Also, rafa10pj, if I drop that last Wiz level and take another Monk level, as you suggested, then I can't get ANY Epic spells. You need 21 levels to open the option for Epic spells, with the requisite amount of Spellcraft ranks.
Avado: with the AC calculations, I didn't make an error. I understand exactly how AC works, and what stacks, and what doesn't. I simply neglected to specify that my equipment gives me all the necessary AC boni (5 each of Natural, Dodge, Armor, and Deflection). My PW allows crafting of items to maximize this, and I've also noticed that omitting the specifics is quite common in a number of builds I've seen posted here, not the least of which are some of Ithacan's, who also plays on my PW. Also, not to offend you or anything, but unless you're talking about "naked" AC, 55ac for a Dexer is abysmal in a PvP setting. At least on my PW it is. 70+ is necessary for survival, as even the most inexperienced players will typically have melee builds with 55-60+ab.
With regard to the skills, and skill points. As mentioned in the original build post, I recreated it entirely from memory. I understand that posting skill point allocation is part of the rules, but I simply did not have the time to add that as well. Skill point allocation varies considerably from one PW to the next, but the simple basics for a PvP environment would certainly be observed for this build: Maxing out Discipline, 40 ranks in Tumble, maxing out Spellcraft, Heal, and Concentration, 1 rank is OL and PP each. The rest is discretionary. If there's a way for me to edit the original, I'd be glad to do so, and add the skill points to it.
Finally, with regard to the Str score of the build and damage output. As stated previously, my PW has a crafting system that allows you to customize your equipment, and if done properly, can cap most every ability score increase at +12, given enough money to craft all the equipment, and knowledge of how to do so. In this case, my build has 18 Str, fully buffed. Not much for extra damage, but enough to allow it carry the essentials it needs for PvP combat, which is what it is built for. And with regard to damage output, which is a consistent question about Dex builds, my PW also allows crafting of up to 4d10 (actually, 2d10 and 2d12 for those who know how to do it) of various elemental damage on weapons, thus keeping Dex builds competitive with more high-powered Str builds.
Hope that answers your questions.
It seems to me that there have been several builds posted recently that are "PW specific" builds. I have only played on a few PWs but all the ones I have seen seem to have forums where you can post the builds there. My understanding of this guild, the ECB, is to take peoples builds and with help or suggestions from the other builders to try and maximize the potentional of the build. This becomes difficult when people post builds, it gets criticized by a few people who think they can help make it better, then the original poster comes back and says "well, on my PW this this and this are changed or you can add this this and this to equipment and so on..." When I first see a build posted I automatically assume that it is posted in form to be played through the OCs or taken through PWs if one wants. I know that every PW has certain things changed for the most part. I guess what i'm trying to say out of all of this is: if a build is meant to be played on a certain PW, I think it would be nice to mention it along with the original build post.
Nobody likes cheesy kamas nowadays
Quote: Epic Warding over Epic Mage Armor? Not on my PW. Warding is nerfed to +7/50, and there are a couple of relatively easy to get +7 weapons, making Warding almost useless, which is fine with me. 5 more AC trumps that any day.
Dude, this is why we complain about PW-specific builds, you either make a BIG ANNOUNCEMENT about it at the original post or get flamed for it. Epic Warding beats Epic Mage Armor as spell description, we can't use divining magics in real life and figure out your Epic Warding is nerfed.
The PW-specific thing also troubles all the items you are wearing, you list maxed out buffed DEX in your calculations but your only real buff on it is Cat's Grace or heck, Tenser's Transformation (I don't think so, right), I know it's important to know the setting when making an AC-based build, just make a reference about it, writing only "+20 Gear" is a very bad one, one cannot know if that's a lot or not in your PW compared to weapon's enhancements because we don't know them either.
At least please write the name of your PW on the original post when you make a PW-specific build and state so, information about the magical environment would be perfect, no complaints from me if that were there. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
Ah nuts! A pw specific build! I swear sometimes people just dont know how to read!
Its our bad guys. Next time we see post that says +20 gear, we should all assume that the dude(ette) has no intentions of ECB and is makin a pw specific build. You know, cuz we all know what +20 gear means! _________________
I think avado answered your question like no other could...
Quote: Posted 12/26/07 21:45 (GMT) -- Hiwatt Epic Warding over Epic Mage Armor? Not on my PW. Warding is nerfed to +7/50, and there are a couple of relatively easy to get +7 weapons, making Warding almost useless, which is fine with me. 5 more AC trumps that any day. Also, rafa10pj, if I drop that last Wiz level and take another Monk level, as you suggested, then I can't get ANY Epic spells. You need 21 levels to open the option for Epic spells, with the requisite amount of Spellcraft ranks.
If Epic Spells are nerfed and the best you can get is a +5 dodge AC from Epic Mage Armour, then I would drop that last Wizard level also on Sundays. It gains you just that, +5 AC, which, considering your PW, is easily obtainable.
Also, as was said, we can't really make any suggestions if you are building for a specific PW and we know nothing about it.
Edited By rafa10pj on 12/28/07 07:38
Quote: At least please write the name of your PW on the original post when you make a PW-specific build and state so, information about the magical environment would be perfect, no complaints from me if that were there.
