This is an answer to Grimnir77's request for a Cleric/DwD. You'll have to make do with a mace until level 12, when you get both proficiency and focus on warhammer. There's nothing like this in the search engine.
Divine Defender (Cleric 26 / Dwarven Defender 14) Dwarf, Any Lawful PvM or PvP, Playable 1 - 40
01: Lore(4), Spellcraft(4), Tumble(2) 02: Spellcraft(1), Save(2) 03: Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(2) 04: Spellcraft(1), Save(4) 05: Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(4) 06: Spellcraft(1), Save(6) 07: Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(6) 08: Spellcraft(1), Save(8) 09: Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(8) 10: Spellcraft(1), Save(10) 11: Spellcraft(1), Save(12) 12: Discipline(15) 13: Spellcraft(2), Save(1) 14: Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(1) 15: Spellcraft(1), Save(3) 16: Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(3) 17: Discipline(5), Save(1) 18: Spellcraft(2), Tumble(1) 19: Spellcraft(1), Save(2) 20: Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1), Save(2) 21: Spellcraft(1), Save(4) 22: Discipline(5), Tumble(1) 23: Discipline(1), Tumble(1) 24: Discipline(1), Tumble(1) 25: Discipline(1), Save(2) 26: Spellcraft(5) 27: Discipline(2), Save(1) 28: Discipline(1), Tumble(1), Save(1) 29: Discipline(1), Tumble(1), Save(1) 30: Discipline(1), Save(3) 31: Spellcraft(5), Save(1) 32: Discipline(2), Tumble(1) 33: Discipline(1), Tumble(1) 34: Spellcraft(3) 35: Spellcraft(1), Tumble(1) 36: Spellcraft(1), Save(2) 37: Discipline(4), Save(1) 38: Tumble(2) 39: Lore(3) 40: Discipline(3) _________________ Great Research Tools: NWNWiki NWN Epic Character Build Search Engine The NWN Vault
Looks pretty good. Any build with 26 levels of Cleric in it should do pretty well. I dont like to use Dwarven Defenders unless taking atleast 22 levels and getting EDR III, but thats a different build. Which brings me to this, seeing a Dwarf with a CON of 12 makes me .
Quote: Posted 04/24/08 17:55 (GMT) -- galelabriel Which brings me to this, seeing a Dwarf with a CON of 12 makes me .
That was actually my beef. I might have suggested to leave Str at 14 and keep pumping Con over Str and grab the 3 EDRs, but the way you have done it also works. Spell Penentration isn't that great, and since you don't become undispellable until late in the build, it might be worth considering doing something like Cleric18/DwD22. You'll be able to shoulder a hit a lot more, your spell list and efficacy are more or less the same, you just lose the undispellability aspect of the build, which isn't a make or break factor in this kind of build since Mords trumps all anyway.
Overall, I like the combination of Cleric and DwD and there's a simple purity to those two classes together without the gratuitous overlap of some cheesy 3rd class. Well done. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Well it's nice alright, though I can't conceive the idea of not taking Monk there when there's a third class open but heck, some people say it's cheesy and overpowerful, be my guest. I'd take a two handed weapon, personally, I play Dwarven Defender as a defensive class that won't need a shield.
It's very ineresting to take only 14 Dwarven Defender and not taking EDR III, it certainly improves your STR though. Only 14 Dwarven Defender gives only DR 9/-, and though I love the Dwarven Defender class, I believe taking so little of it isn't worth it, you could reproduce the DR with EDR III and maybe make a Cleric 26 / Bard 4 / Red Dragon Disciple 10 which in the end has better skills, more buffs, some immunities (fire, paralysis) and about the same combat stats.
You're mostly caster so I thought it could be better to change Power Attack and Cleave for maybe Empower Spell, Silent Spell or Maximize Spell or something like that, no?. _________________
Quote: Posted 12/19/06 19:54 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Thax the Shadow Dragon sez: MONKS USE KAMAS. Just ask him.
I'd drop Power Attack and cleave for ImpCrit and KDown. ImpCrit is well served in a warhammer.
I'd also drop starting STR to 14, and start with 16 CON. That'll let you benefit from the stayer ability of Dwarves. You'll lose 1 AB/Damage but gain 80 hitpoints and +2 Fort save. Fair trade to me. I also have this combo in my crowded plate of Cleric/DwDs, but think I made it with more CON, more WIS and less STR plus EDR III.
A pity def stance can't be used while casting. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Wow, so many replies to answer!
I can see that having lots of DD levels is beneficial, but Grimnir asked for a build with both DD and Cleric, so 14 levels is the most DD you can have and still be undispellable. Adding a third class like Monk or Fighter would mean even less DD.
If you leave STR at only 14 to pump up CON, you'll have a char that can really take a beating, but can't hit anything. That would be fine if you want a decoy, a char who draws agro so the casters and archers and do their thing undisturbed.
This character needs WIS for casting, STR for attacking, 13 DEX for Dodge to qualify for DD, so something has to give, and I reluctantly chose CON. The suggestion of starting with 14 STR and 16 CON makes sense, but I'd still leave CON at 16.
Cleric 26 / Bard 4 / RDD 10 is indeed a great build, but it is not what Grimnir asked for.
I really like Cleave for that extra attack, and Power Attack itself comes in handy occasionally. With a buffing Cleric, the only spells you'd want to Empower are Bull's Strength and Cure Critical Wounds. I dropped Empower Spell from the Cleric build I'm playing right now in HotU to get Great Cleave to qualify for Dev Crit later in Sands of Fate, and I don't miss it at all. With the STR-boosting items I'm wearing, Bull's is only giving me +2 STR before I hit the +12 cap anyway. Ditto for Maximize Spell. Silent Spell might be useful if you want to cast a spell while silenced,. but that would be in combat, when I usually don't cast anyway.
The strategy with this build is to buff up before combat, and use potions to heal during combat, so it is not a problem to be unable to cast while in Def Stance, and not a problem to have no Concentration. _________________ For the world is hollow, and I have touched the sky.
My only thought is: your character is a Cleric. You don't need to worry about pumping STR for AB like you would with most other character classes. Clerics have enough spells to compensate. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 04/25/08 12:34 (GMT) -- Empyre65
Cleric 26 / Bard 4 / RDD 10 is indeed a great build, but it is not what Grimnir asked for.
I think Thax's point is your build has nothing over the RDD one. I don't think Grim wanted DD just to get DD, he probably wants it for superior DR (is there any other reason).
Not to say this is a bad build, it isn't. _________________ " -- They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more."
- Pozzo in Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett
Quote: Posted 04/25/08 18:13 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
Quote: Posted 04/25/08 12:34 (GMT) -- Empyre65
Cleric 26 / Bard 4 / RDD 10 is indeed a great build, but it is not what Grimnir asked for.
I think Thax's point is your build has nothing over the RDD one. I don't think Grim wanted DD just to get DD, he probably wants it for superior DR (is there any other reason).
Not to say this is a bad build, it isn't.
It does have immunity to flanking though. If you decrease the DwD levels to five and devote the remaining levels to cleric, monk, or champion of Torm (and possibly paladin) you could also do better.
imvho, the 14 dex is a hard stat for this build. It is wasted when you wear full plate. I know its necessary for dodge, but that is why, after MUCH experimentation, i abandoned the whole cleric dd thing. Cinn has a point bout ab, but a cleric with high str AND cleric buffs is mean! I would leave wisdom at 19 though. Yeah, the one point is nice, but it dont give that much. What this means is that you can start wis at 14 and bring con up to 14 or add 40 hp to build for nothing. _________________
Being an answer to a request shouldn't be an argument on why you can't make your build stronger.
Quote: the 14 dex is a hard stat for this build. It is wasted when you wear full plate. I know its necessary for dodge, but that is why, after MUCH experimentation, i abandoned the whole cleric dd thing
Well... Paladin / Weapon Master is a lot tougher on your stats. After MUCH experimentation I found out that Dwarven Defender is a class that drains levels, it's one of the few classes that keeps gaining a lot of power on high levels (casters stop gaining spells in epics, meleers stop gaining BAB advantage in epics, most classes won't gain growing class-related special abilities after level 20, etc.) because DR keeps growing steadily, so in comparison, it's more worth it to raise Dwarven Defender high than most classes, therefore, the most effective way of building a Dwarven Defender is picking classes that won't require a high level expense, given that Dwarven Defender's best level for multiclassing maximizing power is 26, fitting your other two classes in 14 levels makes your Dwarven Defender spread very powerful. When adding Cleric, it is convenient to take only as much Cleric as to maximize your buffs, most buffs maximize their power at level 15, there's an armor buff (I don't recall which) that caps at 18 and Darkfire caps at 20, after that it's more worth it to take Dwarven Defender levels than Cleric to maximize level spread effectiveness, being dispellable by normal means or not is a whole different condition. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 04/26/08 05:12
Tumble.
Quote: Posted 04/25/08 12:34 (GMT) -- Empyre65
If you leave STR at only 14 to pump up CON, you'll have a char that can really take a beating, but can't hit anything. That would be fine if you want a decoy, a char who draws agro so the casters and archers and do their thing undisturbed.
Ummm. If dropping your AB by 1 point causes this, then you're already there. Every point counts, I'll agree to that, but dropping 1 AB isn't the different between decent AB and hitting nothing. Each to his own, but personally that's how I would do it.
To the others, yes, I like this combo, the reason I asked for help is that I have trouble making this build at the most effective and needed some brainstorming, like this. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
He wasn't talking about starting STR at 14 and going up to 26, but leaving it at 14 and pumping CON instead of STR, so the AB difference isn't 1, but 7. _________________ "Never laugh in the face of a live dragon." - Bilbo Baggins
Quote: Posted 04/28/08 06:30 (GMT) -- Empyre65
He wasn't talking about starting STR at 14 and going up to 26, but leaving it at 14 and pumping CON instead of STR, so the AB difference isn't 1, but 7.
Bee-bop-a-loola Thought you meant my comment, mate, but when re-reading it I understand perfectly.
Move along, citizens! _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Quote: Posted 04/25/08 12:34 (GMT) -- Empyre65
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The suggestion of starting with 14 STR and 16 CON makes sense, but I'd still leave CON at 16.
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The strategy with this build is to buff up before combat, and use potions to heal during combat, so it is not a problem to be unable to cast while in Def Stance, and not a problem to have no Concentration.
Those 2 blurbs were in reply to your post, Grimnir. _________________ Logic is a bouquet of beautiful flowers ... that smell bad!
Well, not being able to cast while in def stance is irritating, since there's no logic to it as far as I can see. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
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