This build focuses on buffs based off charisma and Wisdom using nothing but brains to augment the lack of power you might normally have with any other power build. The up side you can focus on ether the aspect of archery and still have a fair amount of magic to use or focus on magic and have something to fall back on when you ran out of spells. Ether way you can keep your distance while pelting away evil doer’s hit points or giving them the grand finish of implosion or harm (Heal if undead)
The down fall to this build lack the hit points to start with many fighters have near 600 hp on their own merit alone. Saves to fortitude and reflex are shoty at best but great in will department. Based on what gear is around you can hit hard in low power campaigns with divine base damage with little resistance to the damage. The problem there is that you need charisma with out many out side sources to beef up your shiny smile they last for short 1 time burst and divine might deals even less damage.
Proper planning and good role play make this a fun build since you bring out a powerful archer with out relying on being an elf (Which can also work with this build if you don’t mind having less hit points) which can have a small burst of divine hitting power of 65 AB with just your normal longbow extra equipment and using spells like word of faith gives that little extra edge as well as the flexablity of normal clarics.
What can help this build become stronger? Good cloth armor Boots of the Sun Soul Belt of Dexterity or Belt of (a giant <insert type here>) Bracers of Speed Cloak of Nymph Amulet of Wisdom Composite Bow (keen if the server has one) Helm optional couldn’t think of a good common found item to help with anything dramatic change to beef up the build.
DIVINE ARROW - CLERIC (23), CHAMPION OF TORM (15), MONK (2) Human, Lawful Good or Lawful Neutral PvM Build 37-67 CR (Based off of 3,300,000 gp. max item value based from Kamiryn’s Character Build Calculator spreadsheet)
*Any Melee weapon this is only needed for CoT requirements staff might be a good choice **This skill is very useful for this build but focus on Cha
I will give a shout out to Bytewaste's (CLC 22/CoT 17/Monk 1) build but the differance is largery clear that this build is focus completely on the buffs you get and not Dev. Crit. and largy focus on the bonuses you get with Cha base ablities that come with CoT and War Domain Power.
Format polishing, added link - Kail Pendragon
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 08/22/08 21:38
Besides Bytewaste's build there's 2 more that have similarities with your build 1st there's Stupid Cupid - The Divine Archer by Kjetil_Magne and then there's The Wise Guy by sheffnaster .
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Quote: Posted 07/11/08 16:56 (GMT) by Knight_ofLimbo More charisma= more ladies.
How can you say that 15 cot is better than 28 cleric? (you didnt say that, but you took 15 cot leaving out 28 cleric). I have to think that a build like this needs cleric spells? You are dispellable. Why not switch the 5 to cleric? You DONT have extend spell which means your buffs will last only 23 rounds.. not too long im afraid.
There are so many tweaks i could give. Drop spell focuses. Take cot10 in epic for extra epic feats. Why add to charisma? for divine might? Your 4 stats will make little difference and can better be used as AB in wisdom (not to mention spell slots (a few anyway)).
Since 10 cot would be taken in epic (to give you 15 bab at lv 20 - standard POWER cleric), you would have a pretty easy character to level. Then monk isnt necessary til lv 37 for skill dump. Now you gain 29cleric and a epic cleric feat.
I would suggest dropping combat cast and Improved. These feats are generally the default feats for the nwn engine, and were put in so that the default characters would suck! You have a high concentration so taking 2 feats is a waste. Also with the tumble you shouldnt have to many problems with AOE.
I apologize for Min/max suggestions. I only really play clerics so i have alot of things i like to see in the builds. If this were a melee build strength based you could get away with more cot. imvho, with the way you designed the build, the one more wrath just doesnt seem to justify loosing all those caster levels.
I would add extend spell and silent spell to the mix, btw. These are 2 essentials. If you must keep foci, that is cool. I find that SOV is a much better stunning spell vs implosion. What will occur in game is that you will probably be a imploder (which means you neeed even more wisdom) OR a bower, not both. The reality of the build is you are only a mediocre imploder and a mediocre bower, so you will end up runnign alot. Take Trickery domain for II so you can run easier.
Sorry for the length. I get alittle over exicted with cleric builds _________________
I agree with avado, Storm of Vengeance rocks, it stuns great, it can deal heavy damage over time, and Evasion doesn't work against it, you should try it in your strategy as well, too bad it's conjura
Quote: Posted 08/23/08 03:11 (GMT) -- avado
How can you say that 15 cot is better than 28 cleric? (you didnt say that, but you took 15 cot leaving out 28 cleric). I have to think that a build like this needs cleric spells? You are dispellable. Why not switch the 5 to cleric? You DONT have extend spell which means your buffs will last only 23 rounds.. not too long im afraid.
15 CoT Gives you extra 2 to AB and 2 to damage divine. Now I was thinking of adding more to Cha and also I thought about using only 17 - 19 levels of Cleric and getting 5 more levels of CoT for 2 more damage and AB.
More should go into Cha but then AB goes down for bow creating a balance to the build. Also the buffs that count are class skills and Cha Based.
Quote: There are so many tweaks i could give. Drop spell focuses. Take cot10 in epic for extra epic feats. Why add to charisma? for divine might? Your 4 stats will make little difference and can better be used as AB in wisdom (not to mention spell slots (a few anyway)).
Divine Might is damage that very rarely resisted same as Divine Wrath. You also forget Divine Shield which adds AC.
Dropping Spell Focus and Weapon Focus feats can be dropped for more Wisdom I will not deny that 4 more wisdom will achieve about the same goal and give a little more to AC.
As far as bonus spells I have never been in a battle long enough to have to use all of them. If you’re in the long hall this isn't a build for you it's meant for quick attacks and sneaky which tricky is a good choice to change out instead of magic which you described later.
Quote: I would suggest dropping combat cast and Improved. These feats are generally the default feats for the nwn engine, and were put in so that the default characters would suck! You have a high concentration so taking 2 feats is a waste. Also with the tumble you shouldnt have to many problems with AOE.
Tumble doesn't come into play until level 38 which to play the build until then Combat Casting is needed. If you are thinking of going strait to 40 then yes taking this out would be viable if you are aloud a rebuild.
Quote: I apologize for Min/max suggestions. I only really play clerics so i have alot of things i like to see in the builds. If this were a melee build strength based you could get away with more cot. imvho, with the way you designed the build, the one more wrath just doesnt seem to justify loosing all those caster levels.
You don't need to apologize it's consecutive criticism but you seem to play them only one way which seems can get old. I wanted a more divine base cleric but had to play balancing act which isn't easy when you know how to get 50 wisdom easy. Making it so that you hit with divine attack is a little bit trickier but does more damage then the any class not AA in the realm of Archery.
Quote: I would add extend spell and silent spell to the mix, btw. These are 2 essentials. If you must keep foci, that is cool. I find that SOV is a much better stunning spell vs implosion. What will occur in game is that you will probably be a imploder (which means you neeed even more wisdom) OR a bower, not both. The reality of the build is you are only a mediocre imploder and a mediocre bower, so you will end up runnign alot. Take Trickery domain for II so you can run easier.
Extend Spell helps and can be placed in part of combat casting but will not increase the lengh of the focused skills of War Domain and Divine Wrath. Which was my main focus behind the build not just the cleric spells which will out last the cha.
I do like the Trickery Domain idea and been mulling it over magic but at the time ice storm seemed nice and I had greater sanctuary but 50% concealment is always nice.
Of course I think it even be better if they posted up the best build for those who use Wisdom based CoT Archers. I did like Stupid Cupid - The Divine Archer Monk3/Cleric 15/COT 22 by Kjetil_Magne. It balances Wisdom and Charisma very well but at the cost of losing 9th level spells.
Fixed broken quotes - Kail Pendragon
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 08/24/08 11:31
lol, you jerk! You actually made me consult the wiki!!
First, the argument you have vs cleric is from a lack of understanding of the DIVINE power of the class. Your argument about +2 ab/dam took me abit to understand. So what you are saying is that you feel 5 levels of cleric isnt as beneficial as +2? Now you are talking about another 5 lvls to get +2 again? *faints*
First, my suggestion was to go wisdom based only for stats. TO go 20 straight lvls of cleric, leaving 10 cot for epic lvls. Then to go 28 or 29 cleric with a monk lv for tumble. WHy? 2 spells. Divine Favor and Divine power (there are others, Battletide, prayer, aid). Divine favor grants you +5 damage for 1 turn per spell. With a high wisdom cleric AND extend or silent feat, you can have as many as 12 or more (iirc i had 19 or 20). That is +5 damage! Also +5 to ab.
Now, your ab. I checked the patch info to make sure this is still true and it looks like it is. One of the secrets of the epic character guild (seems that only we talk about it wrt clerics..) when you have a cleric, you want to keep ab to 3 APR. This allows you to Get a 4th apr when you cast Div Power at FULL ab, not 38/33/28/23 +5 like you would get in your build. This gives you one extra attack at full ab to HIT for Damage! And your ab goes up +5 aswell. The duration is 1 round per lvl (unextended). 23 rounds is short for a fight. I have tested it many times. It seems to fly by.
So, by adding more cleric lvls AND extend spell you get MORE ab and can cast MORE divine damage (more cuz you have that extra attack at full ab, vs 23+5 for your last one).
I did make one error in my suggestion above: KEEP epic prowess too. I didnt say loose wf/ewf (those are necessities).
If you dont have perma haste, take travel and trickery for domains. The domain feats SUCK! Typically uses are one per day! oohhh. Compared to what is suggested, there is no contest.
The reason for silent spell is an extra slot lvl for harms/heals and possibly mass heals. SOV will be an excellent stunning tool for you (you want to stop them attacking you so that is great) and firestorm is a great mass destruction spell (especially when you cast them ontop of each other). If you are not focusing in high wisdom (28 isnt really that high), dont go implosion route with spell foci :evo. Yes, the exploit is nice, but it wont be powerful enough for you to rely on, vs the firestorm/sov combo. I play on a server with TWEAKED monsters (there hp is higher than normal nwn) and that combo works amazingly!
I even looked up combat casting/icc. While combat casting seems good on paper, to save +4 to concentrate (when you make it with CON bonus) is NOT worth the feat, imvho. THe wiki even says that a caster with 27< concentrate (which you have) the feat ISNT worth it. I have NEVER used the defensive cast mode. I dont think i have ever played with someone who did. Things, by your own admission, die to fast when you really know what you are doing to even care to switch.
In light of all this, it is YOUR build. you will do what you will. My suggestions are based on 1000s of hours of cleric playing. I dont know much, but i know how to make a cleric TOUGH. Sad but true.
Now im goin to cry for all those lost hours playing with divinity _________________
I agree with avado, Storm of Vengeance rocks, it stuns great, it can deal heavy damage over time, and Evasion doesn't work against it, you should try it in your strategy as well, too bad it's conjura
Heya. I'll try to be clear and to the point. While I see your reason for the 15 CoT in this build, I also don't think it's worth it, and for several reasons: Undispellable Cleric buffs are a good thing (they live off of buffs), and of all the classes, they have the easiest time hitting the AB Cap. With just Divine Power, Divine Favor and GMW, you are already only 5 away from the ceiling. Toss in Bless, Aid, Prayer and now you're only two away. Turn on Divine Wrath for some extra damage, and while it's giving you 7 divine damage per smack, you're only going to get +2 AB out of the deal since you're hitting the AB roof.
My suggestion to you would be do go Cleric15/Monk1/CoT3 pre-epic. You'll have to drop a few pre-epic feats, but you can afford to drop some of those. I would also drop starting Wisdom to 16 and throw those 3 points into Str and Con. You'll still be able to hit that final WIsdom score of 28 (actually you can get higher if you want), you'll raise your final AB. Fort save and give yourself another 40 HP. Also, this maximizes your Divine Power potential, and you will be laying down some serious smackage when you turn this on.
Now, with the majority of CoT now being taken in Epic, as well as getting another Cleric bonus feat, the field is wide open. You can keep ICC if you want. The thing with ICC is that it depends on how you play and who you play with. In a party environment where the other members of your team tend to rush headlong into a room, ICC may not be a bad idea, for it will give you a bit more ducking room as you weave through the field to Heal/Rez fallen comrades. I think you can live without it, but there's nothing wrong with taking it either in a Cleric build where you'll be needing to keep your party breathing.
With 10 stat increase to Wisdom and two Cleric bonus feats, you can still get to Wis28. With 4 CoT bonus feats and 7 general feats in Epic, you can still nail the following feats: EWF, EP, AS, Epic Spell Focus, 4 Great Charismas, ICC, and then you'll still have two feats left over (Great WIsdoms, perhaps?, or Epic Spells?)
Then you can add two more Monk levels somewhere for some added Tumble drops... something like Monk1 at Level12, again at Level22, again at 32 and then at 37. This will give you the added AC at just the level where the Tumble bonus grants it.
I'm sure I said what's already been said, but sometimes it just sounds better when it comes from someone else. Good job, and well done. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
LMAO! Thats why you are the dwarfLORD. You are so much more to the point! _________________
This post is for general information purposes only, and does not constitute a legal opinion or render any legal advice. It may not be relied on for any purpose, and gives rise to
Quote:
I even looked up combat casting/icc. While combat casting seems good on paper, to save +4 to concentrate (when you make it with CON bonus) is NOT worth the feat, imvho. THe wiki even says that a caster with 27< concentrate (which you have) the feat ISNT worth it. I have NEVER used the defensive cast mode. I dont think i have ever played with someone who did. Things, by your own admission, die to fast when you really know what you are doing to even care to switch.
ICC is the only long term reason for combat casting. Unless you have hefty damage reduction or hefty damage shields up the loss of an AoO and the ability to retain another combat mode at the same time can be very beneficial, especially if you don't want to wait a turn after casting a spell for your power attack, or you want to cast with improved expertise.
Also 23 cleric, while not undispellable, still keeps 90% of the buffs safe from each greater dispelling (of caster level 15 or higher). Increasing the levels will only help undispellability against those not specialized int the arcane while able to cast greater dispelling (in PvP this would be just bard, druid, and cleric). These three classes, though, will often not be willing to waste their best dispelling spells for limited results.
Furthermore the divine damage of divine wrath goes through damage resistance and damage immunity making it guaranteed damage against a potentially well protected creature.
