Inspired by this discussion of a pure bard, I decided to make a pure bard build of my own, but not to take away from OCNT Dogo's thread by posting my build there.
This build is intended for a support role in a party, buffing with his song and spells, de-buffing with Curse Song and Taunt, and pelting the enemy with arrows. I disagree that a pure build must be iconic, or even try to be. As somebody else said, a truly iconic bard would be multiclassed.
Empyre's Pure Bard (Bard 40) Elf, Any Non-Lawful Playable 1-40, PvM
Since you went the dex route, I suggest you look at this. It isn't a pure bard, but it does allow for the best song and puts the high dex to good use.
Edited By WhiZard on 10/07/08 12:49
My one concern is that in a Dex-based pure Bard, nearly all of the AC is Dodge-based. Caught flatfooted, 280 hps can hit the crapper in about 1 combat round. But hey, what's life without a little risk? _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
And you will be if you Taunt. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 10/07/08 08:11 (GMT) -- Empyre65
Skills: Perform 43(59)
DOH! THis is the problem that this type of build represents. If my calculations are correct, (and i have already proven my deficiencies in bards), you need about 120 perform to get a lv 40 perform.
Other than that, its a dex bard. WHat else is needed to be said. _________________
I agree with avado, Storm of Vengeance rocks, it stuns great, it can deal heavy damage over time, and Evasion doesn't work against it, you should try it in your strategy as well, too bad it's conjura
Quote: Posted 10/07/08 18:06 (GMT) -- avado
DOH! THis is the problem that this type of build represents. If my calculations are correct, (and i have already proven my deficiencies in bards), you need about 120 perform to get a lv 40 perform.
There is no level 40 perform. The bard song progression stops at level 30 perform 100.
Empyre, I shall send you the card for my shrink, to you and to Nimueh Longleaf (sp?) as well (Pure Bard builders hehehe). Nice take, and I tried to think of a DEX version too, but as it was said, one must really like to live dangerously if one wants to Taunt being DEX-based without Uncanny Dodge. But think of it, the Pure Builds thread had but one pure bard, CHA-based. Now we have a DEX and (soon) a STR based one!!!
Quote: Posted 10/07/08 19:12 (GMT) -- WhiZard
Quote: Posted 10/07/08 18:06 (GMT) -- avado
DOH! THis is the problem that this type of build represents. If my calculations are correct, (and i have already proven my deficiencies in bards), you need about 120 perform to get a lv 40 perform.
There is no level 40 perform. The bard song progression stops at level 30 perform 100.
Then WHY are we talking about lv 40 bards?? Guys what is the point? The more i learn about bards, the less i like them past lv 26. Please, please, please, someone explain to this cleric, WHY we are pushing the idea of lv 40 bards???
Thanks wHiz for BOTH setting me straight AND proving my point. 59 <<< 100. _________________
This post is for general information purposes only, and does not constitute a legal opinion or render any legal advice. It may not be relied on for any purpose, and gives rise to
Some places including the toolkit (having one +30 item) have items that give tremendous skill boosts to perform. The max skill bonus is 50 which is often more than enough for a high level bard to reach the desirable 100 perform.
Even without equipment a pure bard can get their perform up to 75 with only the use of empowered eagles splendor. Using bard song (level 25) will increase the perform to 87 which makes him eligible for the level 27 curse song. If this bard got even a +5 to perform from items he could go from the level 26 bard song to the level 29 curse song.
As far as bard song goes after level 16 you only increase HP, AC, and skills by taking further levels (feat-wise there is lasting inspiration which requires 20 bard). The HP normally don't give you much (+2 HP for each perform level beyond level 16), the AC is just a further (and hard to reach) +2 addition (AC increases at level 25 and 30), and the skills increases (though significant) don't usually aid so much in combat as AB and saves.
The devastation comes when using curse song to lower an opponents attack, saves, and skills (before lasting inspiration you can actually make a sizable damage dent merely by repeating curse song every turn). But even with save decreases you can't make your bard spells act as powerfully as level 9 spells.
I wasn't trying to make the most powerful build I can. I was trying to make the best pure bard I can. I certainly wouldn't try to solo this character. If he hangs back with the mages behind the front lines, he should be fine.
Now, I'm thinking of tackling one or more of the other classes that are not represented in the pure builds thread. Stay tuned. _________________ Logic is a bouquet of beautiful flowers ... that smell bad!
Excuse my assumption (Empyre) but I believe both builds, mine and Empyre's weren't aimed at power per se. But rather were attempts to improve the pure bard build posted especifically for a thread were only pure builds feature. I also believe I stated that more than a couple times. So I am pretty sure that we both (Empyre and I, if he forgives my second assumption) know quite well that a pure bard build is not what can be best done with Bard as part of a multiclassed build. What, even MUCH more powerful classes like Cleric and Wizard can gain a LOT from multiclassing, why wouldn't the Bard be in that wagon?
On topic: Empyre, if the idea is to hang back with the more fragile classes, and thus avoid being target to melee or magical types, maybe it would serve your singing elf to swap Spellcraft and Taunt and get Hide and Move Silently? For a party lacking a scout he would do very well, being DEX based, wearing cloth, and able to increase his H/MS pretty well for 100 rounds with Song/Inspiration (and any items he could get his hands on). Maybe even he was feeling particularly brave, he could sneak up unto the enemy, and use Curse Song just before his party starts raining destruction over them.
Edited By OCNT Dogo on 10/08/08 01:44
Quote: Posted 10/08/08 01:40 (GMT) -- OCNT Dogo
Empyre, if the idea is to hang back with the more fragile classes, and thus avoid being target to melee or magical types, maybe it would serve your singing elf to swap Spellcraft and Taunt and get Hide and Move Silently? For a party lacking a scout he would do very well, being DEX based, wearing cloth, and able to increase his H/MS pretty well for 100 rounds with Song/Inspiration (and any items he could get his hands on). Maybe even he was feeling particularly brave, he could sneak up unto the enemy, and use Curse Song just before his party starts raining destruction over them.
That would indeed be a very nice variation. _________________ "Never laugh in the face of a live dragon." - Bilbo Baggins
I would take the Hide/MS, but I wouldn't drop spellcraft. Those save boni are too nice to pass up.
And avado, bards are fun, clerics are BORING. Why play a class that takes no skill to play, like cleric? It takes craft and skill to play a bard. So it's all the more rewarding when you crush your opponents with a class they assume is weak. hehe
As for curse song not being as good as a lvl 9 spell. Get off a curse song before the mage or cleric starts casting, and see how good those lvl 9 spells are...not very, since I'll make every save for 100 rounds. Which is 90 rounds longer than I'll need to turn pointy hat into a pin cushion.
Quote: Posted 10/08/08 13:11 (GMT) -- RangerSG
As for curse song not being as good as a lvl 9 spell.
Misquote. I was referring to the curse song effect improving the relative DC of bard spells by decreasing the opponent's save. Thus curse song doesn't not make bard spells save-wise as good as if he were able to cast level 9 spells normally.
But for your making saves, bard song only increases your saves versus spells by up to seven (spellcraft boost included), so a pure bard is by no means guaranteed to make the saves of an opponent's level 9 spells. None of the effects of curse song decrease the spell DC of an enemy caster.
Edited By WhiZard on 10/08/08 15:00
Quote: Posted 10/07/08 23:04 (GMT) -- avado Then WHY are we talking about lv 40 bards?? Guys what is the point?
I have no idea. In my mind, a build such as this is only viable in party play the same way anything at all can hang back and still survive. Yes, bard/curse song is great. That aint enough, and in a well balanced party, that's all a build like this brings to the table.
Also, I think it's safe to say that taunt in this build is not at all viable. A -6 to AC for six rounds isn't worth an instant dirtnap.
In any event, I do agree that this guy could really use hide and move silently, as without them, he's going to have a lot of trouble even just staying alive.
It takes craft and skill to play a bard. So it's all the more rewarding when you crush your opponents with a class they assume is weak. hehe