This build was inspired by the Zhentarim Field Agent. I was playing a slight variant of that build in a module where there was a large weapon that you really needed to be able to wield to have a chance against an undead boss with high DR (it was the only weapon in the module with divine damage), and he couldn't wield it. So I made a human version, and noticed that if he focused on a scimitar like the original build he had better AC with a shield, but still had a tough time with the occasional sneak- and crit-immune high-DR enemy (who are also often slash-resistant), and if he focused on a 2-handed weapon he had lower AC and occasional problems with enemies with True Sight and nasty attacks. So I thought to myself "Wouldn't it be nice if I could have both?"

Rogue(23), Fighter(16), Shadowdancer(1), Human

STR: 17 (34)
DEX: 13
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 8

Hitpoints: 426
Skillpoints: 375
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 21/15/23
Saving Throw bonuses: Traps: +5
BAB: 26
AB (max, naked): 42 (melee), 28 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 21/32

Disable Trap 22(26), Discipline 42(54), Hide 43(57), Move Silently 43(57), Open Lock 40(41), Pick Pocket 43(44), Search 39(41), Set Trap 22(25), Tumble 40(41), UMD 41(40)

01: Ro(1): Knockdown, Dodge
02: F(1): Weapon Focus: Scimitar
03: F(2): Mobility, Blind Fight
04: F(3): STR+1, (STR=18)
05: F(4): Weapon Focus: Heavy Flail
06: Ro(2): Toughness, {Evasion}
07: Ro(3): {Uncanny Dodge I}
08: SD(1): STR+1, {Hide in Plain Sight}, (STR=19)
09: Ro(4): Improved Knockdown
10: Ro(5)
11: Ro(6)
12: Ro(7): STR+1, Improved Critical: Scimitar, (STR=20)
13: Ro(8)
14: Ro(9)
15: Ro(10): Skill Focus: Hide, Crippling Strike
16: F(5): STR+1, (STR=21)
17: F(6): Weapon Specialization: Heavy Flail
18: Ro(11): Skill Focus: Move Silently
19: Ro(12)
20: F(7): STR+1, (STR=22)
21: F(8): Great Strength I, Epic Weapon Focus: Heavy Flail, (STR=23)
22: F(9)
23: Ro(13): Improved Evasion
24: F(10): STR+1, Great Strength II, Epic Weapon Specialization: Heavy Flail, (STR=25)
25: F(11)
26: F(12): Epic Weapon Focus: Scimitar
27: Ro(14): Great Strength III, (STR=26)
28: Ro(15): STR+1, (STR=27)
29: Ro(16): Epic Skill Focus: Hide
30: Ro(17): Great Strength IV, (STR=28)
31: Ro(18)
32: Ro(19): STR+1, Epic Skill Focus: Move Silently, (STR=29)
33: F(13): Great Strength V, (STR=30)
34: F(14): Epic Prowess
35: Ro(20)
36: Ro(21): STR+1, Great Strength VI, (STR=32)
37: F(15)
38: Ro(22)
39: F(16): Great Strength VII, Armor Skin, (STR=33)
40: Ro(23): STR+1, (STR=34)


He has WF and EWF in both Scim and Heavy Flail, WS/EWS in Heavy Flail only, and Imp Crit in Scim only. So, when he wants better AC, he uses Scim and shield, and still does excellent damage to sneak- and crit-susceptible enemies. When he is up against something sneak- and crit-immune, or slash resistant, he switches to the Heaavy Flail and gets +24 from unbuffed Str and WS/EWS alone, which lets him handle even high-DR enemies.

It doesn't cost him much - I gave up 1 pre-epic feat (stealthy) and traded 2 Rogue levels for 2 fighter levels in Epic to trade Skill Mastery for the second EWF (which also costs a few skill points and 1d6 sneak damage, but he still has 12d6 which is plenty on top of the high strength).

On a side note, this is one of the few builds that will work as a Half-Orc. Start Str still at 17 and keep Int at 14, and you have 1 point left over to pump Dex to 14 (for +1 to AC and Reflex save). Drop the two Skill Foci for Stealthy to make up for the lost feat (with the higher Dex, Hide and MS end up the same at 57). You do lose 43 skill points, but he has plenty (you could drop Pick Pocket without much loss, I just took that one for for fun). It makes him ugly, but could be a fun to RP a reasonably smart, skillful, and stealthy Half-Orc who can smack the heack out of you with a heavy flail to the back of head...

TM

Edited title

Edited By Kail Pendragon on 04/29/09 18:14

Bravo! This one is a keeper. Well done, TM. And going half-orc, as you noted, would be the coup de gras for this build.

I think you could drop Improved Crit in a build like this, and keep Stealthy, but it's not really critical...(there's a pun in that if you work for it) also, TM, you only have 30 levels listed in the build title. May want to have a Mod fix that before the Guild has you sacked.
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Quote: Posted 12/30/08 15:38 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord

I think you could drop Improved Crit in a build like this, and keep Stealthy, but it's not really critical...(there's a pun in that if you work for it)

I had the Imp Crit on the Scim to make up for not having WS/EWS - trying to keep the damage output up when he goes sword and board. But damage is fine against anything sneak-susceptible, so you could certainly swap it for Stealthy for 2 more points to Hide and MS. They are high enough already for PvM, but a bit marginal for PvP.

Quote: also, TM, you only have 30 levels listed in the build title. May want to have a Mod fix that before the Guild has you sacked.

D!Oh!

Kail???

TM TM, since you're not getting any rogue bonus feats in epic levels, why not drop 2 rogue levels, lose 1d6 of sneak attack damage and gain 1 extra feat from another 2 fighter levels? Anyway, good build, very versatile, although it has the usal problem: low will saves. Oh well!

about the title: typos suck

Take it EZ!

Edited By Maximillian Kane on 12/30/08 20:32

Quote: Posted 12/30/08 20:31 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane

TM, since you're not getting any rogue bonus feats in epic levels, why not drop 2 rogue levels, lose 1d6 of sneak attack damage and gain 1 extra feat from another 2 fighter levels?
The only thinghe could get with extra fighter bonus feats would be epic toughness. I'd rather have the rogue levels at that point, which is probably what TM thought as well.
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Couldn't he get Overwhelming Critical for his Scimitar?

P.S.: Please teach me how to quote, pleeeease?

Take it EZ!

Edited By Maximillian Kane on 12/30/08 23:13

Hit the quote button on the post you are quoting.
Quote: Posted 12/30/08 23:24 (GMT) -- whirlin_merlin

Hit the quote button on the post you are quoting.

testing

how about multiple quotes on the same post? Thanks!

Edited By Maximillian Kane on 12/30/08 23:46

Quote: Posted 12/30/08 20:31 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane

TM, since you're not getting any rogue bonus feats in epic levels, why not drop 2 rogue levels, lose 1d6 of sneak attack damage and gain 1 extra feat from another 2 fighter levels? Anyway, good build, very versatile, although it has the usal problem: low will saves. Oh well!

about the title: typos suck

Take it EZ!

To use quotes, type the word quote inside brackets []. At the end of the quote, type the word /quote inside the brackets. You can put all sorts of codes in the brackets, like b for bold, i for italics, etc.


As for the epic Rogue levels, the original build went to Rogue 25, with 1 epic feat at 24 (used for Skill Mastery). It's true I don't gain any feats from Rogue 19 to Rogue 23, but I do gain 2d6 of sneak damage and 24 skill points compared to fighter levels.

If you go with Human, you could afford to lose the skillpoints (but I wouldn't do it for the Half-orc version). In that case, I suppose you could take 4 more Fighter levels and pick up WS/EWS for scimitar, trading 2d6 sneak damage for 6 normal damage with the scim.

He can't get Overwhelming or Dev crit because he doesn't have Power Attack, Cleave, or Great Cleave (pre-reqs for OC/DC). I don't think you can squeeze those in without handicapping him in other ways.

Since you seem to play on a level 40 server, the other thing you could do is delay the SD level to level 21 to pick up 1 point of AB. I designed him for playing from level 1, so getting the SD level as soon as possible makes him MUCH more playable from levels 8-20, which is where a lot of the modules I like to play have most of their action.

TM

Edited By Tattoed Monk on 12/31/08 00:19

Quote: Posted 12/31/08 00:13 (GMT) -- Tattoed Monk

Quote: Posted 12/30/08 20:31 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane

TM, since you're not getting any rogue bonus feats in epic levels, why not drop 2 rogue levels, lose 1d6 of sneak attack damage and gain 1 extra feat from another 2 fighter levels? Anyway, good build, very versatile, although it has the usal problem: low will saves. Oh well!

about the title: typos suck

Take it EZ!

To use quotes, type the word quote inside brackets []. At the end of the quote, type the word /quote inside the brackets. You can put all sorts of codes in the brackets, like b for bold, i for italics, etc.


As for the epic Rogue levels, the original build went to Rogue 25, with 1 epic feat at 24 (used for Skill Mastery). It's true I don't gain any feats from Rogue 19 to Rogue 23, but I do gain 2d6 of sneak damage and 24 skill points compared to fighter levels.

If you go with Human, you could afford to lose the skillpoints (but I wouldn't do it for the Half-orc version). In that case, I suppose you could take 4 more Fighter levels and pick up WS/EWS for scimitar, trading 2d6 sneak damage for 6 normal damage with the scim.

He can't get Overwhelming or Dev crit because he doesn't have Power Attack, Cleave, or Great Cleave (pre-reqs for OC/DC). I don't think you can squeeze those in without handicapping him in other ways.

Since you seem to play on a level 40 server, the other thing you could do is delay the SD level to level 21 to pick up 1 point of AB. I designed him for playing from level 1, so getting the SD level as soon as possible makes him MUCH more playable from levels 8-20, which is where a lot of the modules I like to play have most of their action.

TM

Actually, I don't play on any server at all, I work too much and play only at night or at work while I have a break (thank god for laptops). However, I do think in level 40 terms. I think that it's worth sacrificing playability for better epic level strength, especially if you play on PWs. Just make friends with other people that can help you level up (act as support for the party) until you attain a level of power that allows you to follow your own path. About the Overwhelming Critical you're right. There's no feats you can drop that will maintain the concept of the build and allow you to take it.

Take it EZ! Plus, overwhelming critical sucks.
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