Hello everyone,

I created and tested this build as a level 40 build with no magic items in the character training module with a +20 monster powerup, and it did OK. My guess is that it's not totally unplayable PvM, but I haven't tested that yet. If you do decide to play it, watch out for the alignment shift at level 20. Other than that it's a great build. I'd like to thank Thax, The Supreme Force, FinneousPJ (although he only joined in the end), onion eater and even avado (yes, I forgive you )* for the advice that helped me improve it. This build was originally inspired in Sir Smokesalot by Midthrates, which is now illegal in the last patch. Here's the final version!

* I apologize if I forgot to mention anyone. Thanks to you as well!

THE FORSAKEN HOLY DRAGON

Paladin (20) / Druid (18) / Monk (2)

RACE: Human

ALIGNMENT: Lawful Good -> Lawful Neutral (at level 20)

STARTING STATS:

STR - 14 (+2)
DEX - 8 (-1)
CON - 10 (0)
WIS - 16 (+3)
INT - 14 (+2)
CHA - 14 (+2)

ENDING STATS:

STR - 14 (+4)
DEX - 8 (-1)
CON - 10 (0)
WIS - 30 (10)
INT - 14 (+2)
CHA - 16 (+3)

BASIC STATS:

Hit Points: 360

Skillpoints: 255

Saving Throws: (Fort/Ref/Will): 25/18/29 (+8 vs Spells, Evasion)

AC: (naked): 27

BAB: 30

AB (naked/unbuffed): 32

Buffed AB: 51 (with a mundane scimitar)

Spellcasting: Paladin (20), Druid (18).

LEVELING GUIDE:

1- Paladin - Power Attack, Knockdown
2- Paladin
3- Paladin - Divine Shield
4- Paladin - WIS +1 (17)
5- Paladin
6- Paladin - Divine Might
7- Paladin
8- Paladin - WIS +1 (18)
9- Paladin - Extend Spell
10- Paladin
11- Paladin
12- Paladin - Improved Knockdown, WIS +1 (19)
13- Paladin
14- Paladin
15- Paladin - Empower Spell
16- Paladin - WIS +1 (20)
17- Paladin
18- Paladin - Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike)
19- Paladin
20- Paladin - WIS +1 (21)
21- Druid - Great Wisdom I (22)
22- Druid
23- Druid
24- Druid - Great Wisdom II (23), WIS +1 (24)
25- Druid
26- Druid
27- Druid - Great Wisdom III (25)
28- Druid - WIS +1 (26)
29- Druid
30- Druid - Great Wisdom IV (27)
31- Druid -
32- Druid - WIS +1 (28)
33- Druid - Great Wisdom V (29)
34- Druid -
35- Druid
36- Druid - Great Wisdom VI (30), CHA +1 (15)
37- Druid
38- Monk
39- Druid - Dragon Shape
40- Monk - CHA +1 (16)


SKILLS: Concentration (43), Discipline (43), Tumble (40), Spellcraft (40), Persuade (20), Listen (43), Heal (26)

ADVANCED STATS AND NOTES:

STATS IN DRAGON FORM (Fully Buffed):

STR - (60)
DEX - (44)
CON - (38)
WIS - (39)
INT - (14)
CHA - (27)

AB: 67 (53 unbuffed)

ATTACKS: 67/64/61/58/55/52 (+1 at 67 if hasted, +8 VS Evil once)

HP: 1028/920

SPELL RESISTANCE: 30

Saves (Fort/Ref/will): 45/40/40

AC: 72

STRENGTHS:

MAX AB Dragon
Great buffs
Good combat feats
MONK CHEESE!

WEAKNESSES:

No spell penetration
Easily dispellable
Average in human form (not weak because Paladin buffs are great )
Requires an alignment shift

Well, I hope you like it,

Take it EZ!

Edited By Kail Pendragon on 04/29/09 18:07

Actually, you're not quite a maximum AB Dragon - you don't have Epic Prowess
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People who say that I am arrogant are mistaken. Arrogance is a flaw; I am flawless.
Quote: Posted 12/31/08 01:33 (GMT) -- Gammata

Actually, you're not quite a maximum AB Dragon - you don't have Epic Prowess

Yep, you're right about that, I tried my best to squeeze it in, but there was no way except the one Thax suggested: dropping 2 constitution for 1 charisma, then using only Great Wisdom V, getting WIS stat increase at level 36 and freeing a feat at the expense of playability and human form power. I just couldn't bring myself to do it (a sickly character with no dexterity should probably be cutting wood, not adventuring ), but it is possible if you only plan to walk around in DS all the time (good luck fitting through doors ).

Just editing, then:

MAX *"Pre-Epic"* BAB Dragon!

Now I think it's covered

Take it EZ! Here is the build with Thax's alternative to taking Epic Prowess. Now it's a MAX AB Dragon . Sorry for the delay to post it.

Paladin (20) / Druid (18) / Monk (2)

RACE: Human

ALIGNMENT: Lawful Good -> Lawful Neutral (at level 20)

STARTING STATS:

STR - 14 (+2)
DEX - 8 (-1)
CON - 8 (-1)
WIS - 16 (+3)
INT - 14 (+2)
CHA - 15 (+2)

ENDING STATS:

STR - 14 (+2)
DEX - 8 (-1)
CON - 8 (-1)
WIS - 30 (10)
INT - 14 (+2)
CHA - 16 (+3)

BASIC STATS:

Hit Points: 320

Skillpoints: 255

Saving Throws: (Fort/Ref/Will): 24/18/29 (+8 vs Spells, Evasion)

AC: (naked): 27

BAB: 30

AB (naked/unbuffed): 32

Buffed AB: 51 (with a mundane scimitar)

Spellcasting: Paladin (20), Druid (18).

LEVELING GUIDE:

1- Paladin (1) - Power Attack, Knockdown
2- Paladin (2)
3- Paladin (3) - Divine Shield
4- Paladin (4) - WIS +1 (17)
5- Paladin (5)
6- Paladin (6) - Divine Might
7- Paladin (7)
8- Paladin (8) - WIS +1 (18)
9- Paladin (9) - Extend Spell
10- Paladin (10)
11- Paladin (11)
12- Paladin (12) - Improved Knockdown, WIS +1 (19)
13- Paladin (13)
14- Paladin (14)
15- Paladin (15) - Empower Spell
16- Paladin (16) - WIS +1 (20)
17- Paladin (17)
18- Paladin (18) - Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike)
19- Paladin (19)
20- Paladin (20) - WIS +1 (21)
21- Druid (1) - Great Wisdom I (22)
22- Druid (2)
23- Druid (3)
24- Druid (4)- Great Wisdom II (23), WIS +1 (24)
25- Druid (5)
26- Druid (6)
27- Druid (7) - Great Wisdom III (25)
28- Druid (8) - WIS +1 (26)
29- Druid (9)
30- Druid (10) - Great Wisdom IV (27)
31- Druid (11)
32- Druid (12) - WIS +1 (28)
33- Druid (13) - Great Wisdom V (29)
34- Druid (14)
35- Druid (15)
36- Druid (16) - Epic Prowess, WIS +1 (30)
37- Druid (17)
38- Monk (1)
39- Druid (18) - Dragon Shape
40- Monk (2) - CHA +1 (16)


SKILLS: Concentration (43), Discipline (43), Tumble (40), Spellcraft (40), Persuade (20),

Listen (43), Heal (26)

ADVANCED STATS AND NOTES:

STATS IN DRAGON FORM (Fully Buffed):

STR - (60)
DEX - (44)
CON - (38)
WIS - (39)
INT - (14)
CHA - (27)

AB: 68 (54 unbuffed)

ATTACKS: 68/65/62/59/56/53 (+1 at 68 if hasted, +8 VS Evil once)

HP: 1028/920

SPELL RESISTANCE: 30

Saves (Fort/Ref/will): 45/40/40

AC: 72

Take it EZ! hey maxi.

for the record, it is playable from 1 to 40. THere are very few builds that arent. Unplaybable builds are ones where the stats are min/maxed for certain things, and feats are taken later than normal in order to maximize ab or what have you. We mostly refer to unplayables as born at 40 builds, where they take 1 bard lvl for skill dump at lv 37, which usually means that the build goes through the entire life without +8 to dodge ac.. again, the whole concept of unplayable, is, in my opinion, reserved for some RARE builds. Just so you can gain an idea, check this one out from a friend of mine Dwarven Wall of Wonders, by Stryder Blade if you notice my posting there! Even though he gets weapon finesse at 21 (which MANY Could consider unplayable to lv 21) because of the classes he mixed and such, it was infact, EXTREMELY tough. Yes i learned alot from stryder that isnt in the books anywhere. **please, if you have a question about the link PM me! dont put it in maxi's thread.

with respect to this build, 20 paladin lvls with TONS of wisdom is very playable! The one thing i wonder, if you are tryin to squeeze epic prowess, couldnt fighter be a viable alternative (you get all the ab and tons of feats). Just a thought. DONT take offense to it!
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Quote: Posted 06/28/06 00:22:49 (GMT) -- TyrTemplar

This post is for general information purposes only, and does not constitute a legal opinion or render any legal advice. It may not be relied on for any purpose, and gives rise to

Edited By avado on 01/22/09 20:45

Quote: Posted 01/22/09 20:43 (GMT) -- avado

hey maxi.

for the record, it is playable from 1 to 40. THere are very few builds that arent. Unplaybable builds are ones where the stats are min/maxed for certain things, and feats are taken later than normal in order to maximize ab or what have you. We mostly refer to unplayables as born at 40 builds, where they take 1 bard lvl for skill dump at lv 37, which usually means that the build goes through the entire life without +8 to dodge ac.. again, the whole concept of unplayable, is, in my opinion, reserved for some RARE builds. Just so you can gain an idea, check this one out from a friend of mine Dwarven Wall of Wonders, by Stryder Blade if you notice my posting there! Even though he gets weapon finesse at 21 (which MANY Could consider unplayable to lv 21) because of the classes he mixed and such, it was infact, EXTREMELY tough. Yes i learned alot from stryder that isnt in the books anywhere. **please, if you have a question about the link PM me! dont put it in maxi's thread.

with respect to this build, 20 paladin lvls with TONS of wisdom is very playable! The one thing i wonder, if you are tryin to squeeze epic prowess, couldnt fighter be a viable alternative (you get all the ab and tons of feats). Just a thought. DONT take offense to it!

I don't take offense from anything if none is intended, I'm sure you know what I mean. Thanks for the change of tone, that was all I was asking for in the first place.

Now to your question. The reason for not taking Fighter over Paladin is simple: you lose too much and you don't gain enough. It was just this one and only feat that would improve this build. Everything else won't work while shifted. With Paladin in the equation, you can free up some slots for Ice Storms in the Druid side of the cake, since you can take Empowered Bull's Strength as a Paladin spell. Plus a Pally with Empower Spell, Extend Spell, 7 Level 1 spells, 7 Level 2 spells, 6 Level 3 spells and 6 level 4 spells is kinda scary! . Dropping 2 CON seems like much less of a sacrifice to me than losing Paladin buffs here.

EDIT: And you gotta agree that if I was willing to go as far as changing alignments for Paladin to fit in this build, certainly the lack of Epic Prowess wouldn't be reason enough to give up on it

Take it EZ!

Edited By Maximillian Kane on 01/22/09 21:29

Quote: Posted 01/22/09 20:22 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane

ATTACKS: 68/65/62/59/56/53 (+1 at 68 if hasted, +8 VS Evil once)

1, did you factor in the -2 penalty and +6 claws? Just checking.

2, Haste will give another attack at 50, not 68. It's dumb, but that's currently what happens with creature weapons.
Quote: Posted 01/22/09 22:35 (GMT) -- Magical Master

Quote: Posted 01/22/09 20:22 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane

ATTACKS: 68/65/62/59/56/53 (+1 at 68 if hasted, +8 VS Evil once)

1, did you factor in the -2 penalty and +6 claws? Just checking.

2, Haste will give another attack at 50, not 68. It's dumb, but that's currently what happens with creature weapons.

1- I kinda did and kinda didn't. I checked the previous build using the Combat Log and the result was as described. I think it's safe to assume that by adding EP it'd remain the same, only adding the +1 attack, right? If not then let me know .

2- Didn't know that, but I agree it SUX!!!!

Take it EZ!