I've been a regular browser of this guild but never posted before. I thought I'd share my first since this has been such a great resource for me.
This is my attempt at creating the ultimate Dwarven Yojimbo (bodyguard). I have a story that I'll share but I wanted to get this out first.
The character's role is to blend into the background as he watches over his charge. He is often assigned to guard hard-profile personnel, so duties often include: securing places to rest, escorting people from place to place, standing quietly has his charge goes about his/her business, intercepting potential dangers and eliminating them.
Similar builds (level-wise) that I've found include:
The Masterful Barricade ( Rogue 14 / Fighter 4 / Dwarven Defender 22 ) by coreyb Dodgy Defender by krsboss (Rogue 14, Dwarven Defender 18, Fighter 8) Elite Battle Dwarf by billb0 (Fighter8/Rogue14/DwD18)
General pros/cons for this build that I've found: Pros Very soloable (is that a word?) Not armor dependent, but of course it can help Good sneak damage (9d6) to compensate Decent AB Can dual wield Some damage resistance
Cons Low Will save (had to take Epic Will) Average HP for a melee build Low damage (helped by sneak) Skills may be a little spread out for some people's tastes
Other thoughts: I know I could've taken 6 Cha to start with and/or 8 Wis, but I normally don't take any values less than 10 when building characters. This is a personal thing. Cha 8 is probably the only stat I'd take less than 10. I've played through level 13 with him on some modules and he's been a lot of fun. I think I'll try to take him back through the OC and SOU/HOU. I haven't done a multiparty game with him but I think he'd be a blast (hit and run, hit and run, and then hit, hit, and hit...).
Let me know what you all think. I'd love to hear any feedback to make him better. Cheers!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 04/17/09 18:27
Private me a message and i will be able to help you field test this build IN AT LEAST 2 persistant worlds i know of that have active dwarf builds and veteran players willing to help.
I am a new member and have recently posted my first submission also.I am the sick and twisted nut case behind the barb 28 /2 bard /10 RDD named blunt. _________________ Surviving 3 cats, 2 kids and a wife deserves some serious game time, dont cha think ?
You hve 26 dex with no epic dodge.. soloable? i guess, but it isnt optimal. the 2 con dont give you as much as would 2 dex. It is AC and AB vs 40 hp... If you had epic dodge, that would be so much more helpful.
THe feats i would seriously look at leaving would be Imp KD, CALLED SHOT (you became a ranger??), and possibly Improve crit (why? cuz you are a dexer and will the crit range really make you that much more effective?) By moving these feats, you can get ambi, twf, imp twf PRE epic which will make the leveling that much easier (why wait til after 30 to get these?)
This leaves you the OPTION for 2 Gr Dex feats to get to 30 dex (with 2 con switch) which is, MORE AB AND AC!
I would drop slip mind for def roll, and take imp ev at rog 13, that leave you to take ED at lv 30, assuming you move the defender levels and rog lvls around. let me show you what i mean:
This gives you 4 more Dex, which is 2 AB and 2 AC, with armor skin, thats 4 more AC than the original version. You loose slipery mind, but you gain Epic dodge... If only i have 5 more feats to get SCv!!! LOL
Quote: Other thoughts: I know I could've taken 6 Cha to start with and/or 8 Wis, but I normally don't take any values less than 10 when building characters. This is a personal thing. Cha 8 is probably the only stat I'd take less than 10. I've played through level 13 with him on some modules and he's been a lot of fun. I think I'll try to take him back through the OC and SOU/HOU. I haven't done a multiparty game with him but I think he'd be a blast (hit and run, hit and run, and then hit, hit, and hit...).
It is perfectly OK to leave these at 6 and 8. We are power gamers! We know about min/maxin and are Perfect with it! LOL I hope you didnt mind the meddle! _________________
This post is for general information purposes only, and does not constitute a legal opinion or render any legal advice. It may not be relied on for any purpose, and gives rise to
Edited By avado on 03/24/09 22:07
17 Rogue, 26 Dex, and you didn't manage to slip in epic dodge?
Hey, congrats on your first build. I'll give you a few suggestions that will help this guy out.
First, Epic Dodge: unless you haven't imbedded somewhere where I can't see it, you'll need to grab it. Otherwise, there's really no point in going Dex with a build like this.
Two, stat spread: 14 Wisdom? No. 10 Int? No. Maybe you have those backwards, but your skill points are far more valauble than a paltry +2 to Will saves. Instead I would go something like this:
Str: 14 Int: 13 Wis: 8 Dex: 17 Con: 16 Chr6:
Then, you'll want to take Great Dex feats at Level 21 or 24. This will allow you to pick up Epic Dodge as early as possible-- Level 27. You'll need to make sure you have Defensive Roll and Improved Evasion already selected by then, which is easily doable.
Drop Improved Crit: Rapier. You won't need it. I'd drop another one of those combat activated feats to get dualwielding in pre-Epic. There's really no reason to take those in Epic. With EWF and Epic Prowess available as bonus feats, you only really need to spend general feats on EWS and Armor Skin. This gives you the ability to take at least 4 Great Dexes, which would give you a final Dex of 31-32. This raises your AB by 3 and your AC by 3. Drop Epic Will. You have UMD.
Not crazy about dualling rapiers. I would go for a small weapon or, if you had to go with a medium weapon, one with dual-damage types (morning star). I would go with Hand axes, maces, shortswords, kukris, light war hammers, etc.
Thanks for the feedback. I like some of the suggestions I heard so I'm going to try to move some stuff around and see what that gets me.
Epic Dodge -> I knew I was forgetting something!
Yes, I did switch the Wis/Int scores around by accident (Wis 10 / Int 14).
Rapiers -> I was thinking dueling since Yojimbo sometimes have to defend the honor of their charges (been reading too much L5R lately ) but I'll see how handaxes do.
Rapiers were a STYLE points!! LOL But griz is right about dual weilding.
I would take a serious look at addin Exotic and go KUKRIS for coolness.
Oh, it might be a small thing, but if you put more defender lvls pre epic, you should sqeek an AB out of her without loosing much else. Its up to you though.
Quote: Posted 03/25/09 00:37 (GMT) -- avado
Oh, it might be a small thing, but if you put more defender lvls pre epic, you should sqeek an AB out of her without loosing much else. Its up to you though.
Actually, I wouldn't recommend that. He can only take two more DwD levels anyway, and doing so would leave him with 6 Rogue levels pre-epic. While it would bump his Will and Fort Save up by 1, his AB would remain unchanged, and he's better served getting as many Rogue levels as he can pre-epic (for skills, skill dumps, sneak damage, etc.). I think his current pre-epic split is the most optimal. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Its rough to go from memory (eeven spelllling). The one thing i didnt look hard at was bab. I was guessin ab was 16, not 18. My "twink" was for 17, which i was obviously wrong about!
That said, the rest of my stuff is good! So what if i havent played nwn in about a year. Once you get this game, it isnt rocket science...
*edit: sorry Griz. I am still trying to understand what KP is... _________________
Quote: Posted 03/25/09 06:28 (GMT) -- avado Once you get this game, it isnt rocket science...
Actually, the scripting side of this game is rocket science, at least to me.
Quote: *edit: sorry Griz. I am still trying to understand what KP is...
You just better hope you like potatoes. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: by ptlee00 Hitpoints: 528 (max)
...
Cons ... Average HP for a melee build
My my, what has gotten into people and HP? sure my Dwarven Defenders usually have more HP, but that's because I take EDR and that requires 21 CON. 528 is perfectly fine, even more so for a build with DR 12/- and Epic Dodge (I'm counting it as if you'd already changed it adding ED) than a regular melee, you can't compare so lightly. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Thanks for everyone's comments. I've made some updates and here is the short version.
Stats Str 14 Dex 17 30 Con 15 16 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 6
Naked AC is now 30 (with Armor Skin now)
I squeezed in Epic Dodge (I can't believe I forgot that the first time) and changed all the weapon proficiencies and specializations to KUKRI's (thanks Avado!). I did have to drop Knockdown to get this to work. I'll repost the full build in a separate post to see if you guys can help further tweak him. And I'll add the story there too.
Please post it here. It is a continuation of this build so why not.
THere is something not right about the stats.. why are you still bumping 2 stats? WHy are you nerfing your build with 14 strength? If you left this at 12, you could start with 18 dex and 16 con. For a dexer, i dont really see why, since you arent taking cleave, you would need str so high.
I only bumped Con at level 40 since Dex was at 30. I pushed the first 9 points into Dex along with 4 Great Dex feats. Str was kept at 14 from the original build to help the character's earlier development so he could wear decent armor and carry stuff and still move around.
I could do the stat swaps like you mentioned and either get Knockdown back or Self Concealment I. I just have to be a bit pickier about what I carry and not be a pack rat!
I wouldn't drop Knockdown, heck, I'd even drop a Rogue level to get a Fighter bonus feat so you don't need to drop it, if necesary. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
ITs so easy to do, to design a build to make it easier in the beginning. After all, what's 14 str, right?
For a dexer, it isnt much. Remember, you are a dexer first! You will not notice the +2 damage in the grand scheme of things. Wear armor? YOU ARE A DEXER!!
I guess i have become a huge min/maxer... how did that happen!? If i were doing a dexer in a dwarf, i would try to start with 18 dex or 20 if i was elf/halfer. Sure, 30 isnt bad, but 30 isnt the best. By my math, 19+10+4gr dex is 32, and thats without really trying. With alittle more thought you could get it to 34 (of course without seein the build, who really knows).
Oh, and self concealment? dude, what is goin on! Self concealment is one of those things that is ALL or nothing. what is the point in 10% concealment when an improved invis gives 50%?
I know this is a first build. Im just trying to give you ideas on how to think like an epic builder. Something that was never told to me, and i posted quite a few builds before i figured it out. But, like i said earlier, i tend to be a min/max type of guy. After all, its a game, and why not try to dominate the best you can, right?
Anything less than SCV is actually a waste and even SCV is debatable in usefulness if Imp Invis is available... 5 feats for 25% concealment against what it counts is just too much. SCI is just a joke, pure and simple ( SCI = 1% concealment against BF, which is all meleers).
Regarding starting DEX, I see nothing wrong with starting at 16 in a non elf/halfling build. There is merit in balance if one has to play the build from ground up. And dexers do wear armor, until they can do without it (which happens in epic), not to mention that tower shields have now a crazy weight and hence a decent STR score is necessary. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Huh, to me it seem crazy that he spends 3 ab points to get from 16 to 17 dex, while starting with 15 Con and then increasing it later. Starting 16 Dex and 16 CON would have the same end result, but would free up 2 AB points at creation. Not much useful you can do. So maybe go 13 STR-17 DEX-16 Con, since STR is the only stat to give something when uneven. Only carrying capacity mind you, but still. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
I've been a bit busy so I'm finally getting around to posting the updated version. Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I reworked the leveling, remembered Epic Dodge this time , handed my Dwarf a pair of kukris and dropped a STR& INT to 12 so I could get DEX up to 18 and CON to 16 at start. Play-testing has been pretty good so far (going through the OC right now).
) but I'll see how handaxes do.
Rapiers were a STYLE points!! LOL But griz is right about dual weilding.
Please post it here. It is a continuation of this build so why not.