I've been experimenting with Monk and CoT variations lately (though separately) and thought about putting the two together. I checked the search engine and was surprised I didn't find any so I put this guy together. Just prior to posting this, I did a quick scan of the Indexed List of Builds and actually found one (there may be more but I didn't go through the whole list).
The Guardian, Monk 18 / CoT 8 / DwD 14 by Bruce Lee 72
The Guardian's level and ability splits are slightly different from mine but the biggest differences are that mine goes for Dev Crit while The Guardian doesn't and I focus on unarmed - just personal taste (and PW requirements).
I picked the Greataxe since we're talking Dwarf here, but any two-handed martial weapon works well for the strength bonus. Of course you could go Kama to keep the unarmed attack bonuses so the options are flexible. It's too bad you have to have a melee weapon focus for CoT but it does give you a decent backup (-2 to AB and 2 fewer attacks) with a different damage type if nice gloves are hard to come by or someone is resistant to bludgeoning damage.
I probably could've squeezed out more AB by tweaking the class mix but I was satisfied with the 17 pre-epic BAB combined with the Monk saving throws. The final saves are pretty decent with the CoT bonuses and the 8 Wis didn't hurt me too bad in the Will save (not counting Empty Body).
Other pro's include a little damage reduction (-/6) and defensive stance to boost stats, hp and saves.
On the other hand, it's too bad I can't use the CoT goodies like Divine Wrath or Smite Evil since my CHA is too low, but I thought it was a good trade-off for the STR, CON and DEX scores. Also, the 10 INT limits the number of skills you can pick but at least the Monk gives you a decent number per level.
I'll stop typing now so that you can read up on the build. Let me know what you think and thanks for reading.
The Fist of Moradin (Monk 20 / Dwarven Defender 10 / Champion of Torm 10) Dwarf, LG or LN PvM, Playable 1-40
SKILLS (132 points total) Concentration: 20 (24) <- can drop and put into Spellcraft if desired Discipline: 40 (50) Spellcraft: 10 (10) <- can bump to 20 with points taken from Concentration Tumble: 40 (43) 12 points left over
21: Monk 13: Great Str I (Str=22) 22: Champion of Torm 5: 23: Champion of Torm 6: Epic Wpn Focus (Unarmed)** 24: Dwarven Defender 5: (Str) Overwhelming Crit (Unarmed) 25: Dwarven Defender 6: 26: Dwarven Defender 7: 27: Monk 14: Great Str II (Str=24) 28: Monk 15: (Str) 29: Dwarven Defender 8: 30: Dwarven Defender 9: Devestating Crit (Unarmed) 31: Dwarven Defender 10: 32: Monk 16: (Str) 33: Monk 17: Great Dex I (Dex=16) 34: Monk 18: 35: Champion of Torm 7: 36: Champion of Torm 8: (Str) Great Str III (Str=28), Epic Prowess** 37: Champion of Torm 9: 38: Champion of Torm 10: Armor Skin** 39: Monk 19: Great Str IV (Str=29) 40: Monk 20: (Str)
** indicates a bonus feat
Edited By ptlee00 on 04/23/09 04:31
Not bad. I can't help but think that the 10DwD levels actually stifle this guy's monk powers. 10 more Monk levels would be more speed, more SR +2AC and two bonus feats, longer Empty Body duration, and would advance his Monk powers in general a lot faster.
In spite of that, if DwD is indeed his career's fate, then I would move swap EWF and Armor Skin. His problem doesn't seem to be AB, it's AC. Probably in a high-magic environment that could be mitigated. In any kind of challenging low to mid magic PW, it could be a detriment. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
There are several minor issues to me here. First, you grab 4 DD levels without taking the 5th straight away. The 5th gives you def awareness so you won't get flanked. that's a big issue in such a build. Second, why not stop DD at 5? At least you'd get a monk bonus feat for Epic prowess or armor skin.
I think you can get more out of this, really.
Monk18/DD14/CoT8 for the same no of feats, but 3 DR.
Monk 25/DD5/CoT10 for one extra feat. You lose 6 DR, but to me that won't matter that much. I'd rather do one of those, I think.
A bit out of the ordinary, and it has potential. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
This is a puzzeler...
I get the reasons why you did what you did. What i dont get is why? 10 fighter seems more appropriate than 10 cot in this build. Sure, +5 saves is nice. You are using your hands though. You need damage. In my mind, +6 damage which fighter opens up, plus 2 feats (and taking out circle kick which i never got leaves 3 feat and stats too).
Its just me. When i see builds like this, i see them as incomplete in the sense of maximizing the potential. I am sure you use COT for some rp thing, and thats cool. _________________
Circle Kick is not such a bad feat... I haven't checked if the new version fixes the earlier bug where Circle Kick could attack an enemy out of range making you disengage combat, if the bug is still there then it is a bad feat.
What doesn't get to me is the 10 Dwarven Defender, it's too little DR IMO, but you have little options if you're an unarmed Monk with Devastating Critical, so in the end, you don't get too much out of 10 levels and you lose a feat taking Dodge. Defensive Awareness is a nice thing, sure, not being flanked has its uses.
The spread is interesting, I suppose it works ok, stats are decent in my opinion, but I still think you get too little out of 10 Dwarven Defender levels. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Thanks for the feedback folks. I got to run but wanted to check in. I took the DD and CoT levels because there was an RP element that I was considering when putting this guy together. Regarding the 6 DR from the DD, Thax's reasoning is right on the money on why I took those levels. It also gave me a nice slug of HP, which combined with the DR helps to take some of the pain from the lower AC.
I could swap CoT for Fighter as per Avado's suggestion (the circle kick bug hasn't shown its head during testing) but I did like the extra saves it was giving me. The 6pts of extra damage isn't to laugh at so I'll see.
I can move the Armor Skin up per Grizz with no negative impact and that sounds like a good investment regardless of the final level split. If I was to bump up the Monk levels, it would be probably to drop DD to 5. It could even be a Monk 30 / Ftr 5 / DD 5 mix but I'll experiment and get back to you guys.
Edited By ptlee00 on 04/25/09 02:51
Quote: Posted 04/25/09 02:49 (GMT) -- ptlee00 (the circle kick bug hasn't shown its head during testing)
The circle kick bug still remains. Try attacking a large or huge character with fists, and you'll see it.