I have not seen this level split yet. Cleric 5 is not the most useful option I know, but it hasn't been done yet and I think it still works anyway.
Flavour Text
When the holy war is long, and the morale is low. When the will to fight on is diminished and dead, and the soldiers no longer know what they are fighting for. There he stands, bold and unshaken. Purpose is his sword, and perseverance his shield, his armour ever glowing.
Crusader Veteran Paladin(15), Champion of Torm(20), Cleric(5) Human, PvM (Untested for PvP but probably not too bad) Playable 1-40 Lawful Good
The Good High saves. Decent HP. Decent range of combat options (3 Smites, 13 Turn Undeads, Knockdown, Taunt). Immune to Fear and Disease. Good chance he'll strike first. True Seeing & Knock can make for easier play.
Buffed potential AB of 57 (+9 from Divine Wrath, +5 from extended Divine Favour, +2 from Bull's Strength, +5 from Greater Magic Weapon). With a successul Smite in tandem with Eagle's Splendor and Aura of Glory, the AB potentially jumps to 71.
Buffed potential Damage of 41-51, Critical 82-102 (1-6 + 2, +9 from Divine Wrath, +5 from extended Divine Favor, +2 from Bull's Strength, +5 from Greater Magic Weapon, +14 from Divine Might with Eagle's Splendor and Aura of Glory, 1-6 + 2 from Darkfire). With a successful Smite, the damage jumps to 152-183, and 304-366 on a Critical Smite.
Buffed potential AC of 46 (+14 from Divine Shield with Eagle's Splendor and Aura of Glory, +5 from Magic Vestment).
Saving Throws jump to a potential (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 58/51/52 (+9 from Divine Wrath, +4 from Eagle's Splendor and Aura of Glory).
The Bad Lowish Unbuffed AC. Low Unbuffed AB. Low Unbuffed Damage. Quite useless without buffs. Too many damn buffs (though Divine Might/Shield/Wrath usually are enough to get the job done). Not a lot of skill points.
The Ugly No spell resistance makes him very susceptible to "no save" spells. 4th level Paladin spells are not available until level 40.
Things to note Yes, I have become a bit of a Paladin w*ore/overuser lately.
This is my first time trying to calculate untested stats, so any corrections are appreciated (I really did try to pay attention to AC and AB caps).
I didn't choose War or Strength domains because the gain was too little given the 5 Cleric levels. I went for Animal and Knowledge to make him a bit more worldly, hence the concept. You might choose to go for domains that provide turning of other creature types.
I was going to go Cleric at lvl 40 for the Spellcraft but then I decided that the saves were high enough, and chose to go for taunt instead to help when the buffs run out. If you decided to go 13: Paladin, 25: CoT, 40: Cleric, you would lose Taunt for Spellcraft's +8 to Saves vs. Spells, drop Knockdown for another Great Smite, and have 4th level Paladin spells at level 20.
I know there are other buff spells I could have added, but I think the more you stack on the more impractical it gets, so I only included the most useful. _________________ Those who find it difficult to act justly, find it far more difficult to deal with injustice.
Edited By Angelis Dania on 01/03/10 14:40
I admit I don't really get the level split, mainly due to the Champion and Cleric parts. Why not just go something like Cleric 20/Paladin 2/Champion 18?
As it stands, you're losing 7 paladin spells for those 5 cleric levels and the cleric spells last for a fairly short duration.
I admit I don't really get the level split, mainly due to the Champion and Cleric parts. Why not just go something like Cleric 20/Paladin 2/Champion 18?
As it stands, you're losing 7 paladin spells for those 5 cleric levels and the cleric spells last for a fairly short duration.
Paladin 2 won't get Divine Might or Shield. The build is not really supposed to be a caster for anything other than buffs, so the Paladin spells and the extended Cleric spells cover that part.
I know I could get a full BAB build or close to by putting all or most of 20 Cleric levels post-epic, but then I get less Epic feats, less smiting power, and lower saves and Divine Wrath bonuses due to the BAB +7 CoT requirement reducing the number of possible CoT levels pre-epic. Plus lower saves and DM/DS bonus also due to putting more into Wisdom and less into Charisma to get Cleric (9) casting.
All in all it would be an entirely different character. This type of build would normally call for a Monk with level split along the lines of Paladin 16 / CoT 18 / Monk 6, but that has been done. _________________ -"That's very important! Write that down - 14, 15 and 16. Now subtract, multiply, and convert to grams and kilos." -"They're very slow." -"They should be able to do it in their heads!"
Yeah, it is hard to see how much you gain from those 5 Cleric levels. If you're going to level up this guy, I'd think the Holy sword would be nicer than low Cleric buffs but that's just a guess, I've never gone full Paladin to be sure.
You also get the smiting part quite late. In fact, for such a high Charisma build, perhaps Extra Smiting should be taken earlier, I'm not a fan of the Initiative stuff, so I'd delay that one.
It's good overall. I don't like that low unbuffed AB, but I think at least you'll get a decent amount of Divine Favors to last several fights without resting. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
I know I could get a full BAB build or close to by putting all or most of 20 Cleric levels post-epic, but then I get less Epic feats, less smiting power, and lower saves and Divine Wrath bonuses due to the BAB +7 CoT requirement reducing the number of possible CoT levels pre-epic. Plus lower saves and DM/DS bonus also due to putting more into Wisdom and less into Charisma to get Cleric (9) casting.
Actually, you'd want to only take 3 levels of non Cleric pre-epic and with 2 paladin levels you can get all of your Champion bonus feats in the epic levels (which can also be used to boost wisdom).
All in all it would be an entirely different character. This type of build would normally call for a Monk with level split along the lines of Paladin 16 / CoT 18 / Monk 6, but that has been done.
Actually something like Paladin 30/CoT 10 seems more reasonable Or Paladin 26/Rogue 4/CoT 10. Or Paladin 25/Fighter 5/CoT 10. Assuming you want minimal buffs.
I know I could get a full BAB build or close to by putting all or most of 20 Cleric levels post-epic, but then I get less Epic feats, less smiting power, and lower saves and Divine Wrath bonuses due to the BAB +7 CoT requirement reducing the number of possible CoT levels pre-epic. Plus lower saves and DM/DS bonus also due to putting more into Wisdom and less into Charisma to get Cleric (9) casting.
Actually, you'd want to only take 3 levels of non Cleric pre-epic and with 2 paladin levels you can get all of your Champion bonus feats in the epic levels (which can also be used to boost wisdom).
The already low AB would drop by 5, and you'd be relying on Divine Power all the time to keep it up. However, seeing as this build is almost entirely relying on buffs, it probably won't matter.
All in all it would be an entirely different character. This type of build would normally call for a Monk with level split along the lines of Paladin 16 / CoT 18 / Monk 6, but that has been done.
Actually something like Paladin 30/CoT 10 seems more reasonable Or Paladin 26/Rogue 4/CoT 10. Or Paladin 25/Fighter 5/CoT 10. Assuming you want minimal buffs.
They are all potential really good builds, but they've all been done and posted.
Simply put, Cleric 5 gives a few good low level buffs that have their effectiveness improved somewhat by extend spell. You get True Seeing and Knock, else the option of turning constructs and elementals or outsiders or vermin. _________________ I'm a poor man your honour. I come before you full of remorse and malnutrition.
I admit I don't really get the level split, mainly due to the Champion and Cleric parts. Why not just go something like Cleric 20/Paladin 2/Champion 18?
As it stands, you're losing 7 paladin spells for those 5 cleric levels and the cleric spells last for a fairly short duration.
Paladin 2 won't get Divine Might or Shield.
But Cleric 20 does, in case you missed it _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
I admit I don't really get the level split, mainly due to the Champion and Cleric parts. Why not just go something like Cleric 20/Paladin 2/Champion 18?
As it stands, you're losing 7 paladin spells for those 5 cleric levels and the cleric spells last for a fairly short duration.
Paladin 2 won't get Divine Might or Shield.
But Cleric 20 does, in case you missed it
Yes, thank you, I knew that, I just forgot to remember that I did.
I would still take a few more Paladin levels, just till BAB hits +7 for CoT, to save for AB in the end. But it's definately a build I'll play around with now. _________________ -"I don't understand. It was the best butter." -"Danish."
You made a concept build of pal/cot with high Charisma. What you have done is sacrifice AB for saves (vs a high str build). In 2006 i really wanted to work out a high charisma build that didnt suck in ab department. In the end, there was only one that did both, and it was made by the great Griz! So, i understand alittle on this type of build.
That you took gr smite 1! means you are devoted ONLY to saves (a smiter build would attempt for gsmite 7-10). Then you MUST take cleric at 37 (not 40) for the 40 spellcraft to MAXIMIZE the concept of what you started.
To that end, 5 cleric gimps the build. In this case 20/20 would be much better (as magi says). Just cuz you can take 3 classes, doesnt mean you must.
If you are gonna rework this gal, look at taking more great smite feats to put the smite damage over the edge.
Quote: Posted 01/04/10 15:51 (GMT) -- avado
You made a concept build of pal/cot with high Charisma. What you have done is sacrifice AB for saves (vs a high str build). In 2006 i really wanted to work out a high charisma build that didnt suck in ab department. In the end, there was only one that did both, and it was made by the great Griz! So, i understand alittle on this type of build.
Which build was that (if you can remember)? Was it a Weapon Master build?
Quote: Posted 01/04/10 15:51 (GMT) -- avado That you took gr smite 1! means you are devoted ONLY to saves (a smiter build would attempt for gsmite 7-10). Then you MUST take cleric at 37 (not 40) for the 40 spellcraft to MAXIMIZE the concept of what you started.
Yes I was thinking that, as without it there is even less justification for the Cleric levels. But then I pulled it out last minute just because of the very low unbuffed AB.
Quote: Posted 01/04/10 15:51 (GMT) -- avado
To that end, 5 cleric gimps the build. In this case 20/20 would be much better (as magi says). Just cuz you can take 3 classes, doesnt mean you must.
If you are gonna rework this gal, look at taking more great smite feats to put the smite damage over the edge.
There are probably a few different ways this build could have been better, but the restriction here is not in the available options, but rather the available combinations and concepts remaining that have yet to be posted.
Having said that, I think you might be able to get 4-5 Great Smites out of it, sacrificing extend spell, prowess, armor skin, superior initiative.
Thanks for all the comments and fixes so far. I get a new way of looking at build options everytime I post a character. _________________ ...we served the Empire at many distant posts... until they all got woodworm.
Quote: Posted 01/04/10 16:06 (GMT) -- Angelis Dania There are probably a few different ways this build could have been better, but the restriction here is not in the available options, but rather the available combinations and concepts remaining that have yet to be posted.
Because a combo hasnt been done, really isnt a good justification for doing it. There is a reason why, after 6+ years that some combos just havent been done.
Quote: Having said that, I think you might be able to get 4-5 Great Smites out of it, sacrificing extend spell, prowess, armor skin, superior initiative.
Like THax said, loosing initiative really isnt a sacrifice. The 2 initiative feats are really for those fighter builds that have more feats than brains! Bioware really did need more feats for the pure lv 40 fighters out there.
It seems that my computer isnt working for me! Look under Index builds. grizzled_dwarflord (he is under the second set of A-Z's.) Build AP is the one i refered too. The build is fighter 7/pal5/ wm28. Charisma 30 with AB of 43!
oh, and look at his Pal2/BG3/Cleric 35 to see how your other build could have been tweaked!
Maybe, if i could copy and paste, i would be able to show you! oh well. ANy of the dwarflord's builds are a study of pure building genius (yes Thax, i was a follower)
Quote: Because a combo hasnt been done, really isnt a good justification for doing it. There is a reason why, after 6+ years that some combos just havent been done.
In fact, I remember even some combos being made for the sole fact of sucking the most
Truth is, this character spread doesn't suck, and not every single build posted on the guild needs to be tatooed with epic power (as we all would like it to be). However, making a build because you like the spread is a far better reason than because it's the spread you found nobody else did. Bad luck, I had a hard time posting builds a while back too, even though I found a few good combos yet to be posted (and posted some more trash), when the build is done by great builders you just can't do anything about it anymore. Just keep posting them and we'll keep replying and be happy.
Quote: ANy of the dwarflord's builds are a study of pure building genius (yes Thax, i was a follower)
Like I will be fooled so easily. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 01/06/10 17:49
Quote: Posted 01/06/10 17:46 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia In fact, I remember even some combos being made for the sole fact of sucking the most
yeah, cdaeulepp made the WORST build ever! A wizard/sorc that couldnt cast a cantrip with 44 hp and NO ability to wear armor and zero dex! LOL Oh the memories! One of the coolest guys i ever met, however brief it was on the mountain so many years ago.
Quote: Truth is, this character spread doesn't suck, and not every single build posted on the guild needs to be tatooed with epic power (as we all would like it to be). However, making a build because you like the spread is a far better reason than because it's the spread you found nobody else did. Bad luck, I had a hard time posting builds a while back too, even though I found a few good combos yet to be posted (and posted some more trash), when the build is done by great builders you just can't do anything about it anymore. Just keep posting them and we'll keep replying and be happy.
Quote: ANy of the dwarflord's builds are a study of pure building genius (yes Thax, i was a follower)
Like I will be fooled so easily.
No, this doesnt suck. It just isnt optimized as done. The reality is, you must really understand what you want from a build like this and then commit, warts and all.
As for power builds.. cleric/bard/rdd is king! Wasnt that done by Griz?
Quote: Posted 01/06/10 22:36 (GMT) -- avado
As for power builds.. cleric/bard/rdd is king! Wasnt that done by Griz?
I believe you are referring to "Blood and Faith" by Mith?
Quote: Posted 01/06/10 23:35 (GMT) -- galelabriel
Quote: Posted 01/06/10 22:36 (GMT) -- avado
As for power builds.. cleric/bard/rdd is king! Wasnt that done by Griz?
I believe you are referring to "Blood and Faith" by Mith?
Yes. Sorry. The Griz worship thing is a long running joke (that isnt so funny when Griz isnt around) between Thax and myself. There were several cleric/rdd's but Miths is the king.
This conversation made me think that it would be good if pulsecap could add a section to his website that contained "top picks" as selected by the more professional builders here. Or, possibly a flag in each record that would discern top picks and an option in the search function to limit results to only top picks.
It might take a bit of work, but the selections could be made over time such that the list would be updated bit by bit as builds come to mind.
Might not be viable but it would be pretty good. _________________ -"Have some wine." -"I don't see any wine." -"There isn't any, and you're too young." -"Then it wasn't very nice of you to offer it." -"It wasn't very nice of you to sit down uninvited."
This conversation made me think that it would be good if pulsecap could add a section to his website that contained "top picks" as selected by the more professional builders here. Or, possibly a flag in each record that would discern top picks and an option in the search function to limit results to only top picks.
It might take a bit of work, but the selections could be made over time such that the list would be updated bit by bit as builds come to mind.
Might not be viable but it would be pretty good.
Who are the TOP builders? Most have retired. To be quite honest, Whiz and Thax are truly the only ones i see left that are "top". The legends like Griz, kail, cinn, finn, mith, have all moved on to other areas.
Also, what one considers TOP would be pure nightmare to another player. For me, the top build is cleric/rdd, because i truly enjoy the flexibility. It does not mean that anyone else would enjoy it.
I have experience first hand with this. My "ultimate" build in PRC i made on a server and posted it there aswell. I logged one time to find 6 of 8 halforc clerics! They all pmd me to thank me and ask questions. I followed a few around and there werent exactly having the same experience that i had! The 'best" build is so tied to HOW you play that it is an impossible and even ridiculous question to attempt.
I mentioned Mith's build ONLY cuz it is perfect as is (few builds are).
ANyway, i am running out the door so i have to go. Otherwise, it would be a brilliant idea.
Who are the TOP builders? Most have retired. To be quite honest, Whiz and Thax are truly the only ones i see left that are "top". The legends like Griz, kail, cinn, finn, mith, have all moved on to other areas.
Also, what one considers TOP would be pure nightmare to another player. For me, the top build is cleric/rdd, because i truly enjoy the flexibility. It does not mean that anyone else would enjoy it.
I have experience first hand with this. My "ultimate" build in PRC i made on a server and posted it there aswell. I logged one time to find 6 of 8 halforc clerics! They all pmd me to thank me and ask questions. I followed a few around and there werent exactly having the same experience that i had! The 'best" build is so tied to HOW you play that it is an impossible and even ridiculous question to attempt.
I mentioned Mith's build ONLY cuz it is perfect as is (few builds are).
ANyway, i am running out the door so i have to go. Otherwise, it would be a brilliant idea.
I suppose what I meant is the builds that have done well to a significant degree in achieving their intended purpose, with said purpose being something that is useful for playing in general or otherwise interesting enough to be included (i.e. highest possible AB/AC/Damage/etc. builds).
This would be easier to categorise seeing as you don't have to take into account what people may or may not like, but rather what is fit for purpose. Regarding how different people may choose to play a particular build, focus can instead be placed on determining whether the build actually can achieve its' purpose in any way at all, and if so (to a highish degree), then it passes the test.
As for the top builders, if there aren't many left, you might also include top critics or just members who have a comprehensive idea of character builds and how they relate to the various modes of gameplay (i.e. people not like me ).
To get this kind of thing in motion, you could start by having some sort of Award Ceremony for a select few categories of build. Then as time goes on, more categories and builds can be included when the mood strikes.
Just a thought. _________________ -"You did sing at my concert, but your performance just now was even worse!" -"I've been practicing."
Edited By Angelis Dania on 01/07/10 15:56
I don't know, but I think you should have picked more levels of cleric. _________________ The NWN rules, baby!
Mhe, the top "fit the purpose" is not a bad idea, the problem is purpose can vary a lot. For example, I made a build intended to have the highest Stunning Fist DC without a crappy AB. The DC ended at 63 with an AB over 45, so it's top because it made up to its purpose, but it was not so perfect, since after criticism, I remade the build to get buffed AB of 62 with a SF DC of 54. The second one is far better for PvP, but the first one had the highest DC, which was the initial purpose. You'll never reach consensus of which one is the best, and it was just one build there.
From my playing experience, I value playability much more than end stats. My builds usually have the purpose of growing strong from low levels even if there's another combination that yields better stats at level 40. But there's no way to actually weight playability vs end stats, and playability depends too much on experience and style to make fair comparisons.
The way I saw the good builds was like this: I thought of a combination I thought was godly, so I searched and found it had been done already. So check which of those was the best. My building spread usually was most similar to Kail's, so there was no need for me to post a build spread he already did. Anyway, when you see the same builders already did all the good builds you wanted to post, you start to figure out they're good, and when you read on their criticism stuff like "kudos", "great build", "I wish I thought of it before you", you know it's a good build. As far as I know, if you want power check Mithdradates's builds. You want good builds overall? You can make a good initial bet with any of the people marked as moderators: Cinnabar Din, Kail Pendragon, FinneousPJ, Grimnir77, grizzled_dwarflord, they're all are excellent builders. Bromium is practically an exclusive shifter builder, he's the authority of th shifter class on the guild as far as I know, they're damn well made, but they're all shifters. griphook is a guy who was not present at the guild when I joined, so I have no idea about him. You can check my builds if you have spare time, some are good, some are weird, some are just concept trash. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
... griphook is a guy who was not present at the guild when I joined, so I have no idea about him.
griphook was a Mod par excellent! A builder? not that i remember. He/she was excellent at keeping the peace, then one day, griphook just stopped coming to our guild. Sad day it was...
Mhe, the top "fit the purpose" is not a bad idea, the problem is purpose can vary a lot. For example, I made a build intended to have the highest Stunning Fist DC without a crappy AB. The DC ended at 63 with an AB over 45, so it's top because it made up to its purpose, but it was not so perfect, since after criticism, I remade the build to get buffed AB of 62 with a SF DC of 54. The second one is far better for PvP, but the first one had the highest DC, which was the initial purpose. You'll never reach consensus of which one is the best, and it was just one build there.
From my playing experience, I value playability much more than end stats. My builds usually have the purpose of growing strong from low levels even if there's another combination that yields better stats at level 40. But there's no way to actually weight playability vs end stats, and playability depends too much on experience and style to make fair comparisons.
So what you do there is make a list of purposes and call them categories for selection. Continuing with the Award Ceremony example, you might have categories like Best -Assassin, Melee Fighter, Ranged Fighter, Evoker, Shifter, etc. Or if those are too general you can be as specific as you like. Once the categories are chosen, you pick the build or even top 5 or 10 builds that excel the most towards that end. So your high SF DC Monk build could be under the category of "Most effective SF" (with the high AB adding to that effectiveness), which could be under the more general category of say "One Trick Ponies" or "Quirky Builds".
The criteria for builds that are not primarily casters could have rankings based on how many abilities or spells, buffs need to be activated for the intended purpose to be achieved (the lesser being better). Casters can be measured by Spell DC and how hard it is to dispel them. In general, a list of criteria relevant to the build purpose can be compiled to make a sort of customised "Challenge Rating".
As you said, general playability would be very difficult to measure and compare, especially if you try to break it down to how playable a build is on a level-by-level basis. It's not only subject to varying playstyles, but also dependant on the environment it is played in. So, I don't think that should even be attempted.
In the end, it all has to come down to whether or not the build can do what it was designed to in any playstyle at all (doesn't matter how, as long as it can and to a high degree), and in any environment or possibly the environment it was designed for if specified.
It might be a big and very meticulous task, but I believe that theoretically, it can be done if the will exists to do it. _________________ -"Well then I rest my case." -"Where?" -"Over there." *points to suitcases on the ground* -"...I know when I'm beaten."
Edited By Angelis Dania on 01/08/10 02:54
Now that we have taken this post WAAYY off topic (by the OP LOL!!).
Forget for a moment, this game is about 8 years old (i think i bought it in 2002). That the peak building year was around 2006. That 1.69 made some of the builds "illegal" as they were done. Forget that it has NOTHING to do with the class splits, the feats, the gear, but has EVERYTHING to do with the player. Forget that no 2 people can agree on how to classify a build with PRC (is this build a Pal or COT? Pal cuz thats the base class. SOme say COT cuz there is more lvls. BUT what is PURE COT?? Not what is shown here).
So if you want to invest the THOUSANDS of hours to go through EVERY build and play it in EVERY way possible (i can play the same cleric build 4 different ways depending on mood and gear) then clasify them to what category?
While the idea is a great one (and, if i recall, it was discussed in 2006 with pulse and the others that were here), the logistics for an old game i just couldnt justify asking ANYONE, let alone pulse, who i havent seen in about 3 years (yes, i played a few games with him iirc). But if you want to, DO IT!! Then we can call you the ECB legend and forget all about pulse cap who?
Quote: Posted 01/08/10 04:08 (GMT) -- avado
Now that we have taken this post WAAYY off topic (by the OP LOL!!).
Forget for a moment, this game is about 8 years old (i think i bought it in 2002). That the peak building year was around 2006. That 1.69 made some of the builds "illegal" as they were done. Forget that it has NOTHING to do with the class splits, the feats, the gear, but has EVERYTHING to do with the player. Forget that no 2 people can agree on how to classify a build with PRC (is this build a Pal or COT? Pal cuz thats the base class. SOme say COT cuz there is more lvls. BUT what is PURE COT?? Not what is shown here).
As the build is being classified based only on the purpose it was designed for by the builder, there is no need for anyone to agree or disagree over the categorisation. For example, a character designed to have the highest possible AB should be categorised as just that type of build - "Highest possible something".
Now let's say then that there are 5 people on the panel of judges for example. If 3 out of 5 say that the build is:
1) Interesting or relevant enough to include. 2) Achieves the designers purpose to a high degree.
then you flag it and move on.
As for some builds being rendered illegal by patches, a simple proviso would suffice. But as these builds are still listed in the database regardless, I don't see any point in making particular note of the fact, as nothing would have changed in that regard. You would only be flagging builds as being highly rated.
I'll say again that the player experience, playstyle or mode of play is not what is being assessed here. The question is closer to something like "If I push this button will the doors open?". Meaning can you make the character do what the designer claims that it can do.
However, if you feel that the game is now too old and does not hold enough interest to warrant this amount of effort, then I would have to bow to that. Or I should say really if you don't think ECB holds enough interest.
Quote: Posted 01/08/10 04:08 (GMT) -- avado
So if you want to invest the THOUSANDS of hours to go through EVERY build and play it in EVERY way possible (i can play the same cleric build 4 different ways depending on mood and gear) then clasify them to what category?
To make it less of a chore, I was thinking more along the lines of you recalling a build, or coming across one in your visits to the forum and search site, and if you think it might be worthy, you submit it to the panel to make a quick judgement of yay or nay, flag it and move on. This way you don't have to actively search through builds to compile a thorough list, but rather just point them out as you see them over time.
If you did not want to wait for approval from a panel, you might instead agree to authorise a select few to just flag them as they see them.
Quote: Posted 01/08/10 04:08 (GMT) -- avado
While the idea is a great one (and, if i recall, it was discussed in 2006 with pulse and the others that were here), the logistics for an old game i just couldnt justify asking ANYONE, let alone pulse, who i havent seen in about 3 years (yes, i played a few games with him iirc). But if you want to, DO IT!! Then we can call you the ECB legend and forget all about pulse cap who?
Well if pulsecap is incommunicado then that is a different story altogether. Unless he can be contacted, there is probably little point to giving this any real consideration.
As for me, I got into this game fairly late, and as such I'm hardly qualified to say what belongs at the top. Especially considering that there are members here such as yourself who have probably looked at virtually every build posted so far, and would already have a good idea of what is worthy and what is not. Still, it is an interesting discussion, to me at least.
But regardless, pulsecap and his search engine will always rule. _________________ -"Have some more tea." -"I've had none so I can't have any more." -"You mean you can't have any less. It's very easy to have more than nothing, especially if you're poor."
Very few builds fail to meet what their builders designed. The ones that come to mind are ones where the builder doesnt know skill dumpin, class skills, min/maxing. The problem is, that us old guys and gals cant recall who did what when, and more importantly dont really care to remember! (look at the monk no monk thing you built and read what Finn says. That is how we all do it.)
There is no such thing as the uberst build. TO do what you want, go for it! You will be wasting your time as PLAY STYLE is the only thing that matters. I know, people dont want to believe it, but it is the truth. I have seen so many mess up so many good builds in game it made me sick (even mine, which i was pretty sure was idiot proof. turns out, there are alot of non-cleric players out there). The build in the hands of a good player is irrelevant. WHat i am trying to say is, it ISNT the character sheet that plays the game. It is the player. But good luck.
Quote: Posted 01/08/10 21:48 (GMT) -- avado
Very few builds fail to meet what their builders designed. The ones that come to mind are ones where the builder doesnt know skill dumpin, class skills, min/maxing. The problem is, that us old guys and gals cant recall who did what when, and more importantly dont really care to remember! (look at the monk no monk thing you built and read what Finn says. That is how we all do it.)
There is no such thing as the uberst build. TO do what you want, go for it! You will be wasting your time as PLAY STYLE is the only thing that matters. I know, people dont want to believe it, but it is the truth. I have seen so many mess up so many good builds in game it made me sick (even mine, which i was pretty sure was idiot proof. turns out, there are alot of non-cleric players out there). The build in the hands of a good player is irrelevant. WHat i am trying to say is, it ISNT the character sheet that plays the game. It is the player. But good luck.
No doubt, playstyle and skill definately trump character stats. So, as far as what matters you are very much spot on. You are also right about it being difficult if not impossible to quantify. That is why, if anything were to be done at all, only the comparison of character stats would be anywhere near viable.
But as you also said, and I agreed, there are other factors that would make such a venture impractical. Nice thought but not gonna happen. _________________ -"Have some wine." -"I don't see any wine." -"There isn't any, and you're too young." -"Then it wasn't very nice of you to offer it." -"It wasn't very nice of you to sit down uninvited."
Besides, all the positions for best builds would be taken by now XD and the best judges are not playing NWN anymore. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Highly debatable. Some of the best judges aren't around, sure, but claiming no one still around ranks in that category of one of the best judges reeks of nostalgia.
I nominate myself as a judge
Ok, I'll shut up already. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
I can't believe that someone else had this idea. I am working on the same build, but I am doing it with a Halfling instead of Human. By the time that character is finished, it should be 15th level Paladin/15th level Cleric/10th Level Champion of Torm. I'm doing it that way because level 40 is supposed to be the cap. I'm currently running this character through the OC and plan to take him through the HotU when I'm done with OC.
I can't believe that someone else had this idea. I am working on the same build, but I am doing it with a Halfling instead of Human. By the time that character is finished, it should be 15th level Paladin/15th level Cleric/10th Level Champion of Torm. I'm doing it that way because level 40 is supposed to be the cap. I'm currently running this character through the OC and plan to take him through the HotU when I'm done with OC.
Many people have had many great ideas. Check pulse cap's search engine. You will find many builds that are between your distribution and that of Thax.
Besides, all the positions for best builds would be taken by now XD and the best judges are not playing NWN anymore.
Et tu. Thax'e'? Come now. Let us not think that all hope is lost. While the Golden Age of NWN may have past us by, let us not despair in the thought that it has been utterly abandoned. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Besides, all the positions for best builds would be taken by now XD and the best judges are not playing NWN anymore.
Et tu. Thax'e'? Come now. Let us not think that all hope is lost. While the Golden Age of NWN may have past us by, let us not despair in the thought that it has been utterly abandoned.
Has the dwarfLord, again, returned to teach the new' uns that indeed, there are new, amazing combos still viable! IS he gonna start to teach again??? We can only hope...
Quote: by grizzled_dwarflord Et tu. Thax'e'? Come now. Let us not think that all hope is lost. While the Golden Age of NWN may have past us by, let us not despair in the thought that it has been utterly abandoned.
Moi? qu'est-ce que tu veux dire? l'espor a été perdu depuis beaucoup de temps
Or maybe not, but who knows; I don't. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Or Paladin 26/Rogue 4/CoT 10. Or Paladin 25/Fighter 5/CoT 10. Assuming you want minimal buffs.
Yes, thank you, I knew that, I just forgot to remember that I did.
Then we can call you the ECB legend and forget all about pulse cap who?
Has the dwarfLord, again, returned to teach the new' uns that indeed, there are new, amazing combos still viable! IS he gonna start to teach again??? We can only hope...
