I noticed a long while back that you can have some of the monkish feats without actually being a monk. So I had this idea to try to make a monk-like character without any monk levels.
Apologies in advance if something along these lines has been done already, but short of going through every build, I don't know of a way to check if this concept has been tried.
Flavour Text
The monk from no temple is like the wolf from no pack. Little more than a stray dog.
Monk no Monk Fighter(20), Champion of Torm(10), Shadowdancer(10) Elf, PvM Playable - Not really no. Alignment - Any non-evil.
Feat Substitutions/Compromises: Monk AC Bonus - Opted for DEX build with Armor Skin, Blinding Speed and high Tumble plus Shadow Evades' +4 AC to compensate. Monk UBAB - BAB of 5 more than natural monk to compensate. Monk APR/Flurry of Blows - Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting and Blinding Speed to compensate. Monk Saves - Sacred Defense to compensate. Monk Speed - Blinding Speed to compensate. Still Mind - Elf Hardiness Vs. Enchantments. Empty Body - Combination of Shadow Evades' 20% Concealment and Epic Dodge to compensate. Perfect Self - Combination of Shadow Evades' 10/+3 DR and Slippery Mind to compensate. Wholeness of Body - Lay on Hands (Requires +12 CHA gear to be effective to any degree, so not very useful). Quivering Palm - Smite Evil & Divine Wrath (Requires +12 CHA gear to be effective to any degree, so not very useful, but then again neither is Quivering Palm ).
Complete Failures: Purity of Body Diamond Body Diamond Soul Ki Strike
Conclusion Without going into too much detail, as compared to a pure monk, in addition to the above listed compromises, this character gets lower unarmed damage despite the weapon specialisations, and lower final AC given the same feat choices. Also, given that you can make a pure monk with Armor Skin, Blinding Speed, high Tumble and Dual-Wielding in the same build, it makes you appreciate the monk class that much more. Also, the number of feats needed to even half-way simulate a monk is staggering.
The ability requirements for all the feats is also quite restrictive, and some of the feats that you get earlier on with a pure monk this build doesn't get till much later.
If I had to say something positive about this build, it would be the higher AB and HP as compared to pure monk with similar ability scores, the rapier that compensates for the crappy unarmed damage, and the fact that this Elf build has no XP penalties.
Other than that, needless to say, don't play this build.
I would like to see an experienced builder take a shot at making a playable character with the same concept. _________________ -"In this world it's not what you know but who you know." -"I don't know either one of them."
Edited By Angelis Dania on 01/08/10 11:14
I believe griz made one. Well, someone did anyway. _________________ Ghaash agh akūl - Nazgūl skoiz Mirdautas vras! Karn ghaamp agh nūt Shaut Manwe quiinubat gukh
Summoning - Mirdautas Vras
Quote: Posted 01/08/10 14:41 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ
I believe griz made one. Well, someone did anyway.
Damn! I'd really like to see it. I wonder what classes were used. _________________ You want a spoiler? I've got a spoiler for you - You will die alone!
I've been having this thing lately where every concept or combination I come up with that I think will be good, I run a search and BAM! There's the Dwarflord with a masterpiece on it.
Oh well, it's still good fun to muck around with. _________________ -"I told you not to put butter into the clockworks with a breadknife!" -"Well I couldn't put it in with a fork now could I?"
Edited By Angelis Dania on 01/08/10 15:35
the year was 2006. That's when you shoulda played. Arguably the best, most creative year of the guild's history.
If i were you, id study griz' builds. Most are near perfect (near cuz i have my own playstyle). THe build griz did had the highest stun fist dc you could get and not one monk lvl to be found.
One thing though, about your building: dont waste feats. Rapier doesnt fit with a monk idea. I know you need a weapon to qual for COT, use Kama. Its a concept thing.
Quote: Posted 01/08/10 21:53 (GMT) -- avado
the year was 2006. That's when you shoulda played. Arguably the best, most creative year of the guild's history.
If i were you, id study griz' builds. Most are near perfect (near cuz i have my own playstyle). THe build griz did had the highest stun fist dc you could get and not one monk lvl to be found.
One thing though, about your building: dont waste feats. Rapier doesnt fit with a monk idea. I know you need a weapon to qual for COT, use Kama. Its a concept thing.
Yes, I should have stuck more with the concept on that point.
Now, would you happen to remember at all what classes griz used for that build? I tried to go for a straight parallel approach, knowing it would probably not be very playable. But it sounds like griz took the main aspect of monkdom and made an effective build around that, rather than trying to make a poor carbon-copy. _________________ -"Kindly leave the stage by the red door. There's a fifty foot drop on the other side!" -"But we're still good friends."
Now, would you happen to remember at all what classes griz used for that build? I tried to go for a straight parallel approach, knowing it would probably not be very playable. But it sounds like griz took the main aspect of monkdom and made an effective build around that, rather than trying to make a poor carbon-copy.
Totally forgot how many builds griz had! Not to mention cinn, finn, mith, i_samph, brom! Man, it took me awhile to find the build cuz it isnt the highest stunner (what i thought it was called), so i had to sift through alot of build names. MAN! There were so many guys that knew what they were doing! To answer the question you started in the other build, maybe i should go through the BUILDERS list and put up a recommended builders post! Much easier and would be an excellent tool for new members (i wouldnt include myself, as i peaked with PRC builds which are not listed )
To answer your question : The Shadowboxer: Rogue 19 / Fighter 20 / SD 1
Not at all what you expected, is it? And it is based strictly on stunning fist. The rest of the monk class cant be mimiced so he didnt try. Instead, he used other classes to create a better than monk!
i just thought that maybe you are using the search engine and dont know about the index! link to index
Edited By avado on 01/09/10 04:52
Quote: Posted 01/08/10 21:53 (GMT) -- avado
the year was 2006. That's when you shoulda played. Arguably the best, most creative year of the guild's history.
One issue is that there's a finite number of good combinations and after a certain point it becomes very hard to find good ones. So it's not that people are any less creative, it's that most of the stuff has been done when you think you have a cool idea.
Quote: Posted 01/09/10 04:48 (GMT) -- avado
To answer your question : The Shadowboxer: Rogue 19 / Fighter 20 / SD 1
Sweet, thanks avado!
It looks really good. And you're right, after trying, I don't think the monk class can be even half-way mimicked. _________________ ...we served the Empire at many distant posts... until they all got woodworm.
To answer your question : The Shadowboxer: Rogue 19 / Fighter 20 / SD 1
Sweet, thanks avado!
It looks really good. And you're right, after trying, I don't think the monk class can be even half-way mimicked.
Yeah, thanks. I was on my cell earlier and couldn't find the link for you, its browser isn't very powerful.
Indeed the Shadowboxer is an awesome build _________________ Ghaash agh akūl - Nazgūl skoiz Mirdautas vras! Karn ghaamp agh nūt Shaut Manwe quiinubat gukh
Summoning - Mirdautas Vras
AH nuts! I just took a close look at the stunner build and you have to be aware that you need to move Epic dodge to lv 27 for tumble 30. This is one of those "illegal" pre-1.69 builds as is. Fortunately, the fix is so minor it is laughable!
Quote: Posted 01/09/10 18:02 (GMT) -- avado
AH nuts! I just took a close look at the stunner build and you have to be aware that you need to move Epic dodge to lv 27 for tumble 30. This is one of those "illegal" pre-1.69 builds as is. Fortunately, the fix is so minor it is laughable!
*Grumbles*
That is, unless you started the build before 1.69 on a server, and then update! BAM! Build illegal, and you have to start from scratch. But aye, there's a long litany of builds in the archives which are no longer possible. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
AH nuts! I just took a close look at the stunner build and you have to be aware that you need to move Epic dodge to lv 27 for tumble 30. This is one of those "illegal" pre-1.69 builds as is. Fortunately, the fix is so minor it is laughable!
*Grumbles*
That is, unless you started the build before 1.69 on a server, and then update! BAM! Build illegal, and you have to start from scratch. But aye, there's a long litany of builds in the archives which are no longer possible.
Pre 1.69 builds with ED before 27th lvl should pass the ELC test and so WS/EWS: club "exploit" ones or Dragon Shape builds with fewer than 18 druid levels. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
).