There are a few similiar builds out there, but none that take lasting inspiration and require no alignement shifts. Straight to business, talking later.
Race: Half-Elf Alignement: Any/Non-Lawful
Playable 1-40 PvM (No - Mid Magic server) Preferably in party (semi-support build)
Skills: Tumble 40 (50) UMD 42 (45) Spellcraft 43 (44) Perform 42 (45) Discipline 43 + 7 to all with song.
Left over: 5 points.
Bard Song lv 19 with 45 perform. Lasting 105 rounds. (10,5 turns)
Key spells: (not in order of importance) Cat's grace Bulls Strength Eagles Splendor Ghostly Visage Clarity Improved Invisibility Protection From Alignement War Cry Mage Armour Haste Dismissal Energy Buffer
Other Nifty (but not crucial spells): Summon Creature (as you level up, useless in later levels) Dirge Healing Spells Mass Haste Ice Storm Expeditious Retreat Neutralize Poison Remove Curse/Desease (low fort saves) Greater Magic Weapon (to boost your backup rapier)
The talk: My goal with this build was a bard that could sing a bard song of lv 16+, cast most bard spells, have decent ranged AB and get lasting inspiration.
Good things: Lasting inspiration Lv 19 Bard song Decent AB Decent buffed AC Bard Spells
Weaknesses: Medicore damage No Called shot Poor melee presence No Curse song Low HPs No Evasion (waste of ref. saves)
I really tried my best to max AB while retaining some playability and achieving my goals with this build. I could probably drop 2 Great dex at the loss of 1 AB/AC/reflex to get curse song and called shot, mabye making it more playable... Actually that might be a good idea even if those feats come late.
I also wondered about putting in a rogue level somewhere, but I felt it might hurt the overall too much and push a lot of power to endgame. I wanted it to be possible to level too. As you can only put skillpoints in bard levels, it gets a little gimped on the AA levels skill-wise, but the song was meant to keep you going through those times. At the other hand, bard levels gets spells as they progress, making up for the lack of improving archer skills.
Any help, critics, advices are greatly appreciated.
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 04/09/10 12:12
Rapid Shot gives another attack at max AB(-2 ofc), not at lowest AB. I'm not sure if Haste on top goes down -5 from that or gives a third attack at max AB like it should.
You could drop lingering song since you eventually end up with lasting inspiration, and thus get cursesong pre-epic to free an epic feat slot. The +5 duration is nice while levelling, but not really necessary since you get a lot of bard levels really early.
Why do you pick Half Elf over Elf? The extra Dex and keen senses is more than enough to choose Elf.
Your damage isn't bad, number of attacks and AB taken into consideration. Arrows + 10, Warcry and bardsong all help.
You should also consider Called Shot, it's a decent feat in an archer.
All in all a pretty good and straightforward bard-archer build.
You do have 1 lvl to play with also, which screams Shadowdancer. You even got room for it. Drop Lingering Song and Toughness for Dodge and Mobility. That does mean you have to let Called shot stay out and cursesong be taken as it is, but it's POWERFUL! _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Oh, I didn't read the description that closely, just figured it was like flurry of blows. Makes it more worthwhile tho.
Lingering song was taken to ease leveling yes, but as it gets quite an amount of songs a day I guess its not important, just helpful. Could drop that for curse song. Actually I didnt think of that. I even forgot that I took curse song as I was writing down my thoughts at the end. My bad.
I wanted Toughness as this build is really starving on HPs, even thought it is ranged and all, I just didnt like the idea og having <300 hps on lv 40.
I'm not sure why I took half-elf, it started as elf, and I changed it during the process for some reason and when I looked at it in the end thinking to change it back, I couldn't end up with the same stats with the feat selection I worked so long on getting right. So I guess that could be done.
If I were to take shadowdancer that means postponing lasting inspiration to lv 39 and dropping UMD and Discipline/Spellcraft to put points in hide and move silently. It is fully possible, but that makes it less leveling friendly (even tho you get great hide/ms and HiPS to compensate). You could take SD at lv 21, then moving the last bard level (and lasting inspiration) to lv 39. Also to qualify for SD I can't take finesse, leaving the build with no melee ability. HiPS should compensate for that tho.
Take elf and drop Charisma one point and start at 18 dex instead. Drop Lingering song and take point blank shot at lv 1, and weapon finesse at lv 6 . Toughness can be dropped for Called Shot if you like. Epic Prowess is dropped for another great Dex feat, and take Cha instead of Dex on lv 28, leaving you at 16 Cha in time to get lv 6 spells and a net of +1 AC and reflex with no loss of AB.
SD path: drop lingering song for point blank shot and take dodge at lv 6. Drop toughness for mobility and swap discipline and spellcraft/UMD for hide and move silently. Take SD on lv 21 and 22 and push the last Bard level to lv 39 for lasting inspiration and a skill dump, swapping the Great Dex feat from 39 to lv 30. (all tho other changes from above also apply)
SD path vs. original path:
SD: Pros: gets HiPS and stealth, essentially removing the need for a melee presence and much defensive capacity. Also gets evasion and uncanny dodge, making use of all that dodge armour and reflex saves. Cons: Low hps, no melee, very late lasting inspiration. Will get in trouble vs. some spellcasters with so ref-save spells. One less AB and damage that the original (same as first edition wich is still good)
Original: Pros: Gets a melee presence in case of surprises/lack of ammo etc. At least some HPs in case of spells and spellcraft to make the save. One more AB and damage. Lasting inspiration earlier. Cons: No stealth ability, leaving it exposed and in danger of spells (lack of evasion).
All in all the SD path is much more powerful and versatile, even if it is extremely frail. It really cries for some Con boosts, but other than that, it seems quite solid. A glass cannon is still a cannon as long as nobody gets close to shatter it.
Race: Elf Alignement: Any/Non-Lawful
Playable 1-40 PvM (No - Mid Magic server) Preferably in party (semi-support build)
Saves: Reflex: 33 (40) Fortitude: 21 (31) Will: 20 (30) (vs. spells if spellcraft was chosen)
Personally I'd go with spellcraft in low-magic environments since there are usually few magical items and such avaliable, making UMD less useful and casters more powerful. However; in higher magic settings you could benefit from monk gear and some wands with UMD and find save-improving gear instead.
Moved Charisma up from lv 28 to lv 24 to get the lv 5 and 6 spells as soon as possible, postponing a point of AB/AC four levels.
Oh, I didn't read the description that closely, just figured it was like flurry of blows. Makes it more worthwhile tho.
Flurry of blows also acts this way. (That is putting another attack into the bonus attack progression and then subtracting 2 from all attacks of all progressions).
With haste the rapid shot extra attack will therefore have a further -5 as it is the second attack in the bonus progression).
Quote: Lingering song was taken to ease leveling yes, but as it gets quite an amount of songs a day I guess its not important, just helpful. Could drop that for curse song. Actually I didnt think of that. I even forgot that I took curse song as I was writing down my thoughts at the end. My bad.
Generally if you are going for lasting inspiration, you would typically avoid lingering song.
Quote: I'm not sure why I took half-elf, it started as elf, and I changed it during the process for some reason and when I looked at it in the end thinking to change it back, I couldn't end up with the same stats with the feat selection I worked so long on getting right. So I guess that could be done.
Well AA is the only type of build where half-elf even might be considered, however, such build types would usually have a lower dex, and use concentration on another ability (such as strength for dev. crit, or charisma for divine might).
Quote: Posted 04/08/10 17:26 (GMT) -- WhiZard
Well AA is the only type of build where half-elf even might be considered, however, such build types would usually have a lower dex, and use concentration on another ability (such as strength for dev. crit, or charisma for divine might).
Thanks man! After all this time, someone has finally given me a legit reason for Halfelf over elf or human! Still, not the strongest arguement, but it is one at least!
Quote: Posted 04/08/10 11:20 (GMT) -- lillesmurfen If I were to take shadowdancer that means postponing lasting inspiration to lv 39...
You could lose one point off Enchant Arrow instead. That's totally worth it.
Quote: Also to qualify for SD I can't take finesse, leaving the build with no melee ability.
Meh, regardless, I wouldn't bother w/ finesse. Even with it you have no melee ability. You're better off sticking with the bow, even at close quarters.
I also think you're selling yourself short by implying that it's not really playable PvM 1-40. With some creative changes to the leveling, I think it could do just fine. Perhaps not a powerhouse, but certainly not unplayable.
Edited By onioneater on 04/09/10 04:25
Quote: Posted 04/09/10 04:23 (GMT) -- onioneater
I also think you're selling yourself short by implying that it's not really playable PvM 1-40. With some creative changes to the leveling, I think it could do just fine. Perhaps not a powerhouse, but certainly not unplayable.
onion, i have yet to find a build that ISNT playable thru to 40. Though, for some people, it is impossible to play any build to 40! I remember playing with a guy one time who knew his stuff. I asked what he was playing and he told me Dexer. Yet, he hadnt taken Wpn Finesse yet! WHAT! And we were about lv 18ish at the time. For many, taking finesse that late would mean the build is not playable, but when you are good, it doesnt matter! Unfortunately, i was in the former group with all cept clerics (yes, i was the guy that made the "pure" clerics with lv 6 spells to lv 30 just to get dev crit early!).
Quote: Posted 04/09/10 04:23 (GMT) -- onioneater
You could lose one point off Enchant Arrow instead. That's totally worth it.
I agree, and did so in the second version.
Quote: Meh, regardless, I wouldn't bother w/ finesse. Even with it you have no melee ability. You're better off sticking with the bow, even at close quarters.
True, I figured evasion and uncanny dodge beat melee and took SD instead.
Quote: I also think you're selling yourself short by implying that it's not really playable PvM 1-40. With some creative changes to the leveling, I think it could do just fine. Perhaps not a powerhouse, but certainly not unplayable.
I don't really see how I can change much in the leveling progression... I made it this way to maximize BAB (and thus AB), and then get all bard spells and abilities as early as possible to boost the power of the build early. If you know any way I can change it to make it more playable, I'd love to hear it.
This build is very dear to me. I am a lover of elves, and a lover of bards. I also solo a fair bit.
Bard/SD/AA is quite a powerful and fun combination, and i have used this combo for quite some time in a number of mid magic settings. I like to think that this is the real thinking-person's toon. I'm guessing that in a Low magic setting this build shines, and it may even be worth going for level 6 spells with dirge and mass haste.
Alternative posted here: Click Here
*EDIT* It's not legal, or evn well behaved, to post a complete build of your own in anothers build thread. Post moved. -Grimnir-
Edited By Grimnir77 on 04/14/10 14:32
This thread somehow disappeared, someone deleted a post?
So I make a reply to make it show itself again. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
