I feel like I cheated using the same format as my Feinting Fencer, but the builds are so similar. Basically Im just dropping 1 AB, HIPS, an epic feat, and some HP for UMD and Sneak Attack, which some will find is a better deal depending on scrolls you have available, server rules, etc. I also realize such a build is quite obvious to a builder, but we don't seem to have it on record, and I know having it here will help out a lot of people.
This build is great for PvP against melee types, especially strength based melee types. If you're feeling a little sneaky, make clever use of some scrolls and kick it rogue style.
Playable 1-40 (Though it can be a pain without help / good gear.) Performs best in PvP.
Advantages: High AB (60 with a +5 Rapier and +12 DEX) Relatively high AC (66 with +5 gear and +12 DEX. 70 with Haste) Epic Dodge (Booya.) Pretty decent damage output. (Youve got over 7 levels of Weapon Master, Epic Weapon Specialization, +7d6 Sneak Attack and a rapier!) You can go toe to toe with the best of them. Use Magic Device deliciousness for scrolls and gear. Stealthy
Disadvantages: Poor saves. Low HP. You rely on critical hits, mostly undead and other things immune to critical hits will be a pain to kill. Poor detection capabilities.
Race: Elf Alignment: Any (Go with a neutral.)
Starting Stats: STR 10 DEX 20(34) All points to DEX CON 12 INT 14 WIS 8 CHA 8
*: Feat can be replaced with Great Fortitude, Improved Expertise, Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Toughness, Blindfight. (I chose what is listed because Improved Expertise will most likely not be needed with your AC and Epic Dodge, and the extra 40 HP is nice. Another good option would be to drop Improved Knockdown for Great Fortitude.)
Skills: Tumble 40(52), Discipline 43(43), Hide 42(54) Move Silently 42(54) Use Magic Device 41(40), Spot 34(35). You could easily lower Hide, Move Silently, and or Use Magic Device to your liking for more Spot or what have you. I personally dont think you really need Spot much at all, as your chances of finding a level 40 Rogue are usually slim to none without Epic Skill Focus Spot anyway.
Naked Fort: 21 Naked Ref: 32 Naked Will: 15
Max Naked HP: 428 Naked AC 32 (35 with a tower shield.) Naked Unarmed AB 43 Mundane Rapier AB 49 Mundane Rapier Damage 1d6 + 6 13-20/x3 AB with a +5 Rapier and +12 DEX 60 Damage with +5 Keen Rapier and +12 STR 1d6 + 17 10-20/x3 AC with +5 Armor, Boots, Deflection, Natural, Tower Shield, +12 DEX 66 (70 with Haste is also scrumptious.)
Similar Builds: Shadow Knight by Lockindal
There are a ton of builds with this combination of classes, but only this one I found to capture a similar feel to this build. The main differences are that the Shadow Knight picks up Self Conceal V with more rogue levels, and loses AB with less Weapon Master levels. It depends on what your server is like, but, I dont think Self Conceal V is worth its weight. Youre a rogue! Find a scroll of Improved Invisibility or something! Also, your AC is high enough (With Epic Dodge), that youre probably not going to get much at all anyway.
Which is very similar. At a cursory glance, I think I like Mith's better, though it's mostly tinkering. How is this build fundamentally different from Mith's?
Quote: Posted 05/25/10 02:57 (GMT) -- onion eater Which is STR based, so will be ignored. And...
Heh, right. That's why I only posted the one I found to be most similar.
Quote: Posted 05/25/10 02:57 (GMT) -- onion eater At a cursory glance, I think I like Mith's better, though it's mostly tinkering. How is this build fundamentally different from Mith's?
Right, Mith's is pretty similar...Aside from the whole two weapon fighting thing, and the halfling thing, and the rogue pre-epic thing, and the dagger thing, smaller crit range, and the 4 less dex thing, and the not using a tower shield thing. Again, I posted the build mostly for reference, because I know many inexperienced builders might look at the Shin Slasher and not be able to readily convert it into an elf sword and shield 11/16/13. I'm not really expecting to wow you with something you've never thought of before here.
Meh, six of one, half dozen of the other. In my eyes, the differences are negligible. Dual-wielding to sword and board? Not a really difficult swap. Elf to Halfling? The minor variation in stats? Just sayin', they seem mostly the same build.
And do we need an elven sword and boarder version? Is it improved over the original? If someone needs to modify an existing build, then that can be done, but I don't see that the ECB is the place for every minor variation of a template.
Which is really all this comes down to. Fine build (well, kinda... still a DEXer...), just IMO it's already been done, and I really don't see that we need a bazillion versions of the same build 'just for reference.' There's no enormous harm done or anything. I just don't like clutter. The ECB certainly doesn't need more clutter. But, it aint my guild, any more than it is yours, so I'll leave you be with your elven, sword and board, version of a build as old as dirt.
Wow, I'm just shocked. Was Mith's build totally copied word for word or have you just seen so many builds that when someone shares their take on something you just enjoy the Poster Bashing?
I popped into the forums to see if there was any activity here and what I find right away is more discouragement of build posting. No wonder I didn't try to share too many.
Are we going to get all knit picky over any build that's been done before but is slightly different in some way?
"Fighter build been done, copied not original you suck!"
"Wizard build, been done, unoriginal you copied someone take a pill"
"Monk build.. Oh cool it's got multi colored flip flops.. A plus plus."
Thanks for sharing your build poster.. Don't feel bad, NWN is so old that it's hard to be completely original anymore. Good ab, should be quite playable. And gotta love rogue skills.
Rant signing out... _________________ The secret to eternal youth is simply in your imagination.
I have no intention of poster bashing. Indeed, the one thing I admire here is the effort. They're pretty decently put together builds. My issue is with where they appear. Once upon a time, a build posted to the ECB meant something. The guild was an useful depository of templates. Repeating a build (or nearly so) only causes clutter, adding little, if anything, of value, and making it more difficult to use the resources here. I guess lately most folks are glad to see anything posted, even if it isn't entirely appropriate.
In case y'all don't read the rules, this is an except from the rules and guidelines sticky above:
" A build which ends up to be the same as an already exsisting one a few minor tweaks apart should not be posted. Such tweaks should instead be suggested as a reply post in the original build thread."
Clearly it's arguable what constitutes "a few minor tweaks." That's what I'm arguing. It's nothing personal. It's just about what the rules of the Guild are, which happen, in this instance, to re-enforce my personal desire for an useful, and organized depository of templates. It aint my guild. I don't make the rules, but I do read them.
I have read the rules, in the past I must admit, but I have. In any case. With the amount of people who have gone away from NWN 1 and the elderly state of the game, I believe that encouraging people to post builds is probably advantageous.
The author in this case missed giving kudos to Mith for having a similar build but he did say it had done before, and did have reasons for thinking it was different. That brings me to think about quite a few builds over the past that have been posted as new and gave credit where it was due to builders who had inspired them. One such posting that comes to mind was when Grizzled Dwarflord's Zhentarim Field Agent build was redone by Tatooed Monk who gave total credit for his inspiration.
He simply refitted the build to work as a human, added a second weapon focus to deal with a particular server situation and posted. I see nothing wrong with that, even the Dwarflord told him he did a good job at it.
Click Here
My main concern if anything is finding entirely duplicated builds which have been renamed and basically stolen from the exceptional builders that created them.
Thanks Onion for explaining your point of view and considering mine. _________________ The secret to eternal youth is simply in your imagination.
Guys,
I'd like you to try and see the other side of the coin. I understand your frustration, but I can speak to you as a novice builder. See, you guys have been here for a long time, some more than 6 years, while other people that have joined recently, such as myself, have come to find a HUGE pre-existing database. You have had a chance to be original and contribute with something, while the newer members have not had such luxury. There is, as onion points out, very little left to be done in terms of that. I will try to exemplify:
While I was away from the guild, I created a few builds using the CBC. Said builds were made WITHOUT LOOKING into any information that lies herein, because pulse cap's search engine was moved and I didn't know where to find the new one. I'll list them for you:
- The HOOD (Half-Orc Of Doom) - Barbarian (28) / Bard (2) / RDD (10) - Upon my return, I posted this one because I thought it had enough differences from other builds to get its own topic, but the EXACT SAME LEVEL SPREAD is present in at least 6 other builds.
- Druid (28) / Monk (2) / Champion of Torm (10) - This build is somewhat different from Kail's Nature Wyrm (which is illegal BTW, you need WF on a melee weapon to become a CoT and he doesn't have it), because it has slightly better AB and Saves, has Greater Ruin and Hellball, while dropping the Disarm line and losing 2 caster levels, spell focus or spell penetration (you gotta choose one of the two lines to drop) and 1 AC from Monk 5. I'm still thinking whether or not to post this build.
- Fighter (10) / WM (25) / Rogue (5) - It's already been done, there is one that is almost identical to mine with only a different weapon (Bastard Sword instead of Katana)
- Wizard (23) / Cleric (15) / Monk (2) - I just resurrected a 2005 topic with no replies because it was almost identical to my build.
I think that's it. So as you see, what will happen if people follow the rules is that you'll get an endless number of topics resurrected from oblivion because new guys will be coming in with nothing new to offer, since it's all been done before.
Quote: Posted 05/27/10 12:31 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane - Druid (28) / Monk (2) / Champion of Torm (10) - This build is somewhat different from Kail's Nature Wyrm (which is illegal BTW, you need WF on a melee weapon to become a CoT and he doesn't have it), because it has slightly better AB and Saves, has Greater Ruin and Hellball, while dropping the Disarm line and losing 2 caster levels, spell focus or spell penetration (you gotta choose one of the two lines to drop) and 1 AC from Monk 5. I'm still thinking whether or not to post this build.
I couldnt believe that Kail missed a feat! So i checked.
Its there! WF is typically used by us "oldies" to mean Weapon Focus. Dam shorthand!
oops!! sorry!!
Wanna know the worst part?? I looked for it 4 TIMES and couldn't find it!! DAMN!!! I need glasses...
Nah. Its just shorthand. You used WF for weapon finesse in another post so its understandable. But this is Off topic (OT) so let's move on! LOL
I know it's off topic, but since it's also kinda on-topic...
Quote: Posted 05/27/10 12:31 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane See, you guys have been here for a long time, some more than 6 years, while other people that have joined recently, such as myself, have come to find a HUGE pre-existing database. You have had a chance to be original and contribute with something, while the newer members have not had such luxury.
Just for the record, I count myself as one who came late to the party. I have exactly one posted build, and, like many others, it's really just a modification of Grizz's that I thought was worthy of inclusion. For the most part, I've always felt like most of the good builds were already posted, and I've used this guild more for refinement and cataloguing. Indeed, I think that this:
Quote: So as you see, what will happen if people follow the rules is that you'll get an endless number of topics resurrected from oblivion because new guys will be coming in with nothing new to offer, since it's all been done before.
...would be a very good thing. While I know that ordinarily post resurrection is frowned upon, I feel like it's totally justifiable here, and indeed, I would like to see it encouraged. The templates are there. If they can be refined, or expanded upon, then by all means, I am in favor of continuing old posts.
Quote: Said builds were made WITHOUT LOOKING into any information that lies herein, because pulse cap's search engine was moved and I didn't know where to find the new one.
That's irrelevant. Just sayin'.
Anyways, I'm not at all against folks posting builds that may be similar to an already posted build if there's a good reason for it. When that happens, the poster should make an argument as to why the build deserves posting. I may or may not buy the argument, but it does need to be made, preferably in great detail. If the argument doesn't pass muster, IMO the build should be removed, as per the rules. That doesn't really happen in practice, but for clarity and organization's sake, I wish it would.
Anyways...
Edited By onion eater on 05/28/10 01:37
Quote: Posted 05/28/10 01:21 (GMT) -- onion eater ...I've always felt like most of the good builds were already posted, and I've used this guild more for refinement and cataloguing.
THen there's no excuse to make a BAD ONE !!!
Honestly, when i started, i spent a long time working on baddly put together builds (just look at the ones i put up in this guild!). It was all "training" for me. It was of immeasurable help when i went to a PRC server and had freedoms i could never have done in vanilla. The cool thing was, there werent alot of others on that server building, and those that were there, were LEGENDS in nwn. Hence, while i have a few next to my name, my true treasures are in the PRC section.
What i finally understood was, there are several different ways to skin the cat, so to speak, so, just cuz an idea is done, doesnt mean it couldnt be done equally or even better another way. And honestly, so what if it comes out lesser? Some of our guild are/were INSANE builders! LOL
Quote: Posted 05/28/10 01:21 (GMT) -- onion eater If the argument doesn't pass muster, IMO the build should be removed, as per the rules. That doesn't really happen in practice, but for clarity and organization's sake, I wish it would.
Anyways...
Oh it does, but perhaps not all. It's not so easy to remove builds just because I feel it's justified, but after conversing I remove.
You find the BARD/RDD/PM that was posted a few days ago f.ex? _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Meh, six of one, half dozen of the other. In my eyes, the differences are negligible. Dual-wielding to sword and board? Not a really difficult swap. Elf to Halfling? The minor variation in stats? Just sayin', they seem mostly the same build.
Nah. Its just shorthand. You used WF for weapon finesse in another post so its understandable. But this is Off topic (OT) so let's move on! LOL 
I know it's off topic, but since it's also kinda on-topic...