Hail, mighty ECB. Since the sad news of the guild have awakened the enthusiasm and nostalgia of some ancients, I thought I'd go out with style. This is my last build if the end of the world predictions are confirmed. It's inspired by Yar Stardawg's Priest of the Shadows build with the same spread, but this focuses on melee power instead of metamagic feats. Made more sense to me that it was so, since your WIS score is only 20. Here we go!
It doesn't even matter anymore, since this is the last day of the ECB, but oh well!
Take it EZ!
Edited By Maximillian Kane on 07/19/10 14:36
I knew Stardawg! When i put out my Dev crit dragon build on the pw forum, stardawg HAD to come out and make an ANTI dev crit dragon build! We shared space on forums as well as in game. A true top notch dude!
Talk about going out with a bang!! Nicely done!
I like.
Were I to play him, I'd be tempted to play a halfling, XP penalty be damned. Drop extend, raise CON to 14. Otherwise he's much the same. Mostly you just get style points, but, I think it works as a halfling, and that's reason enough in my book. Dwarven might work well also. Heck, Gnomish could work too. Of course, if you're unwilling to abide an XP penalty, the build is best as it stands. Personally, where I play, I wouldn't worry about any build with 26 cleric levels having difficulty gaining XP, but, ya know, boats floating, and all that.
Mostly though, very nicely done. I know it's not wholly original, but I think this execution serves the level spread best.
Hey, It's already Wednesday and we're still here!
Quote: Were I to play him, I'd be tempted to play a halfling, XP penalty be damned. Drop extend, raise CON to 14.
Dropping Extend Spell is really not viable in this build. I use MANY extended buffs: Bless, Divine Favor, Aid, True Seeing, Battletide, Divine Power, Aura of Vitality, Spell Resistance, an that's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.
Also, I don't see much gain by being Halfling because you're really tight in terms of skill points too (only 7 extra, which I spent on Persuade, and I couldn't even get Discipline). Going Halfling means you gotta pick one skill to drop, and I don't think that any of them are really droppable. The same applies to all other races you suggested, with Dwarf being the worst because CHA is important to increase the duration of War Mastery. I have this guy wearing a Nymph Cloak and casting empowered Eagle's Splendor on himself for that purpose.
Quote: Mostly though, very nicely done. I know it's not wholly original, but I think this execution serves the level spread best.
Thanks onion, glad you like it . However, I would change one little thing about the spread now that I see it, it's only a minor tweak anyway. Since I don't get Discipline, there's no reason to delay that last Monk level. I'd take it at 34 for earlier Improved Evasion.
Take it EZ!
I'm comenting more about your comments, as I won't really try to argue the halfling thing, mostly because of the loss of a skill, which does hurt. All I mean to point out is that it is relatively simple to change the race, and the result would still be perfectly decent, albeit skill starved. Still, I do take difference with your reasonings, so...
Quote: Posted 07/21/10 11:08 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
Dropping Extend Spell is really not viable in this build. I use MANY extended buffs: Bless, Divine Favor, Aid, True Seeing, Battletide, Divine Power, Aura of Vitality, Spell Resistance, an that's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.
Not viable? That's gross overstatement. Look, I love extend. I'd happily use it for all those spells you mention, but one doesn't need it at all, excepting, of course, environmental situations. You have lots of cleric levels. Durations are sufficient. Extend is certainly welcome, both for duration, and spell-book management, but losing it is by no means a build breaker.
Quote: Also, I don't see much gain by being Halfling
AB, AC, stealth skills, uber-coolness...
Quote: because you're really tight in terms of skill points too (only 7 extra, which I spent on Persuade, and I couldn't even get Discipline).
Yah, true, and reason enough to be human, but not insurmountable. Also, 'couldn't even get Discipline' seems an odd lament, as the skill is neither desirable, nor useful, for the build in question.
Quote: The same applies to all other races you suggested, with Dwarf being the worst because CHA is important to increase the duration of War Mastery. I have this guy wearing a Nymph Cloak and casting empowered Eagle's Splendor on himself for that purpose.
If that works for you, then more power to ya, but I hardly think War Mastery is worth caring about CHA, and much less so is it worth using equipment slots, or even spell slots, for the benefit of a mediocre once per day ability. I wouldn't care for it's loss, and I certainly wouldn't tie up other resources in it's use.
Quote: Since I don't get Discipline, there's no reason to delay that last Monk level. I'd take it at 34 for earlier Improved Evasion.
Yah.
Quote: Hey, It's already Wednesday and we're still here!
Meh. We're here 'till we aint. I'll stop checking in when there aint nothin' to check in on. 'Till then, it's business as usual. _________________ Y'all re all wrong, I'm right, and there's really no arguing with that.
k, with 26 lvls, extend, while a great option, isnt a 100% feat, in my opinion. It will not make nor break the build, then, which means it is, if so chosen, a toss away feat.
The talk about skills, come on!! You are a cleric! Clerics, in case you didnt know, get 2 +int mod (and if you get more than 2 (or 3 for human) you are sabotaging your cleric!!) Clerics are SUPPOSED to be skill starved! In this build, only spellcraft (+8 vs spells) and tumble (+8 ac) are absolute, in my opinion. EVERYTHING else can be eliminated.
Discipline is such a waste because a simple Imm to KD (which are fairly abundant) eliminates the need for it. Besides, playing a cleric CORRECTLY you would very rarely be in a situation for a KD to occur, so for cleric, doubly wasteful!
Alas, i feel like im talking in an empty tomb...
Quote: Alas, i feel like im talking in an empty tomb...
I'm here, man, for as long as this guild is, so maybe a half-empty tome
Quote: If that works for you, then more power to ya, but I hardly think War Mastery is worth caring about CHA, and much less so is it worth using equipment slots, or even spell slots, for the benefit of a mediocre once per day ability. I wouldn't care for it's loss, and I certainly wouldn't tie up other resources in it's use.
What other resources? +40 HP and +1 Fortitude? I prefer a brief once-a-day uberness.
Quote: Not viable? That's gross overstatement. Look, I love extend. I'd happily use it for all those spells you mention, but one doesn't need it at all, excepting, of course, environmental situations. You have lots of cleric levels. Durations are sufficient. Extend is certainly welcome, both for duration, and spell-book management, but losing it is by no means a build breaker.
k, with 26 lvls, extend, while a great option, isnt a 100% feat, in my opinion. It will not make nor break the build, then, which means it is, if so chosen, a toss away feat.
You're both forgetting or not noticing that this build doesn't get Still Spell or Silent Spell, which means that if you don't have Extend Spell, you won't have Divine Power, Divine Favor and some other important spells on 2 spell levels. Wanna drop something? Drop Blind Fight instead!
Quote: The talk about skills, come on!! You are a cleric! Clerics, in case you didnt know, get 2 +int mod (and if you get more than 2 (or 3 for human) you are sabotaging your cleric!!) Clerics are SUPPOSED to be skill starved! In this build, only spellcraft (+8 vs spells) and tumble (+8 ac) are absolute, in my opinion. EVERYTHING else can be eliminated.
Dude, you have HiPS, in some environments (where True Seeing adds to Listen / Spot) that's more effective than Invisibility / Improved Invisibility. It'd be a shame not to have the stealth skills, to me those two are also a must. The only skill you can drop is Listen, but even so only in environments where True Seeing is enough to see it all. In those environments, drop Blind Fight and be a happy halfling!
Quote: Discipline is such a waste because a simple Imm to KD (which are fairly abundant) eliminates the need for it. Besides, playing a cleric CORRECTLY you would very rarely be in a situation for a KD to occur, so for cleric, doubly wasteful!
I don't know where you play, or used to play, but where I used to play that's just SOOOOOOO not true. I wa getting knocked down in DS up until I got a robe that makes you immune to it.
Anyway, like one of the ancients of this guild said in one of the threads I read recently: "A build is just a general guideline, which can and should be tweaked to fit a different environment or playstyle".
Take it EZ!
Quote: Posted 07/22/10 11:07 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane You're both forgetting or not noticing that this build doesn't get Still Spell or Silent Spell, which means that if you don't have Extend Spell, you won't have Divine Power, Divine Favor and some other important spells on 2 spell levels. Wanna drop something? Drop Blind Fight instead!
NOt forgetting anything. Extend is more beneficial imo than empower spell. Infact, if i were to have a choice, extend would ALWAYS be first in a cleric.
Quote: I don't know where you play, or used to play, but where I used to play that's just SOOOOOOO not true. I wa getting knocked down in DS up until I got a robe that makes you immune to it.
I am not sure why you got KD'd, but to take a skill in order to avoid certain TEMORARY stuff when you know you will get immunity later is wasteful for a min/max or power build. But thanks for proving what I said about discipline!
Oh, and i played on the MOUNTAIN! The birthplace of the exalted sorc and all the builds done by cdaeulepp. Some of the very best played there consistantly in the past. It was no walk in the park
Quote: I am not sure why you got KD'd, but to take a skill in order to avoid certain TEMORARY stuff when you know you will get immunity later is wasteful for a min/max or power build. But thanks for proving what I said about discipline!
The level requirement was 30+ if I am not mistaken. It was a +12 armor AC Monk robe with KD immunity. But as far as I know that was the only KD-immunity item in the whole server.
Quote: Oh, and i played on the MOUNTAIN! The birthplace of the exalted sorc and all the builds done by cdaeulepp. Some of the very best played there consistantly in the past. It was no walk in the park
I am no expert in online servers because I am Brazilian, and our pings have always been high to any non-brazilian servers. But if you say so I believe you, however I have my doubts it was as hard as the Brazilian PW I played on, because in order to host so many awesome builds, it'd have to have been a somewhat balanced server, while on the Brazilian one, there are certain classes that just cannot be made. Any rogue-heavy build won't hit ANYTHING, Fighter WM Rogues hit only on the first and second attacks, and all mosnters have just too many HP. You commonly spend your ENTIRE spellbook to kill off ONE MONSTER, which reduces the effectiveness of pure casters.
Quote: NOt forgetting anything. Extend is more beneficial imo than empower spell. Infact, if i were to have a choice, extend would ALWAYS be first in a cleric.
I wasn't really gonna comment this because I agree, but something came to my mind after I had already written the previous replies. I use Empower Spell to better those ability-enhancing spells (bull's STR etc..), and it makes me cap DEX pretty much every time I rebuff. But if you have +12 WIS, DEX, CON and STR then yeah, you could drop it. But if you have those items, I'd drop the War Domain, which was taken for War Mastery, Aura of Vitality and Cat's Grace and take either Strength for 2 levels of Divine Power, Healing for 2 levels of Heal and free empowered basic healing spells or Plant for Barkskin.
Anyway, I have overextended on the replies, sorry
Take it EZ!
A question just popped up:
If you have the Healing domain and decide for whatever reason to cast Empowered Cure Critical wounds, does the empowered effect count twice?? You gotta know this one, avado.
Take it EZ!
Quote: Posted 07/22/10 22:58 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
A question just popped up:
If you have the Healing domain and decide for whatever reason to cast Empowered Cure Critical wounds, does the empowered effect count twice?? You gotta know this one, avado.
Take it EZ!
um, NOPE! Yes, i am probably the biggest fan of clerics in the guild, but i have always seen the "cure" spells as a waste of time and effort. My focus was ALWAYS on offensive defence. The faster they go down the less i worried about taking damage. ALso, i spent my gold on HEAL potions! Yes, even with a cleric! The ONLY time i ever used the Heal spell and mass heal was vs undeads. And i cannot recall EVER using the healing domain as, unlike the popular view, healing is NOT a cleric's job!
No double empowereds.
For the record, where I play, healing is a huge advantage for the class.
As to discipline, it is my experience that discipline, without STR, or serious gear, is well neigh useless. If it isn't going to keep you from getting KDed regularly, then it's not worth the investment. If there's no KD gear, then DEX builds can likely only reasonably oppose a challenging KDer by virtue of a superior AC. Hence, discipline on a DEXer is a waste.
As to Battle Mastery, and allocated resources, I'm assuming that one can't have access to every item property at the same time, as well as maxed stats. If you're wearing CHA gear for Battle Mastery, that's a waste. If you're swapping out a full set of gear to use an ability once per rest, then, first of all, you're nuts, and second of all, a -1 to duration, in exchange for dwarvishness, is easily worth it.
Oh crap NO!! I honestly dont read much of the stuff that people write about their use of feats, but my god! Are you serious?? Battle mastery is NOT worth gear slots to increase! My god!
There was a discussion a while ago about a class being ONLY a collection of feats and skills to achieve a desired concept or something to that effect. This is why the truly great builders build such amazing creations and the rest of us are stuck trying to understand our shoes...
In all my days have i never come across a build that was suggesting reliance on a domain feat like battle mastery! Any time you have more letters in your name than the number of times you can use a feat per day, that feat better be one hell of a feat (like Dragon). That is why i have NEVER considered COT feats, for example as worthy of talking about in a build. The one per rest just isnt reliable enough to be worthy of my time. That said, the COT has other offerings that make it worth a build. Please dont confuse the horse for the saddle.
Alas, just the 3 of us chatting is such a sad end to this magnificant guild even though the best may still be here, it just feels lonely
Quote: As to Battle Mastery, and allocated resources, I'm assuming that one can't have access to every item property at the same time, as well as maxed stats. If you're wearing CHA gear for Battle Mastery, that's a waste. If you're swapping out a full set of gear to use an ability once per rest, then, first of all, you're nuts, and second of all, a -1 to duration, in exchange for dwarvishness, is easily worth it.
Quote: Oh crap NO!! I honestly dont read much of the stuff that people write about their use of feats, but my god! Are you serious?? Battle mastery is NOT worth gear slots to increase! My god!
Well, where I play, there are not that many interesting cloaks, only Cloaks of Protection, Fortification and such, so I can wear a Ring of Protection to cover for that and put on a Nymph Cloak. Rings aren't that great either, so with that char there is enough room for CHA-enhancing gear. I know it's not that big a deal, trust me, but it is nice to have a little uberness for big boss battles and such, and that's exaclty what Battle Mastery is for. I took War for AoV, Cat's Grace and BM, not just BM, and it's certainly not relying on it.
Having Cat's Grace on a DEX build seems like a no-brainer unless you can max it out with gear. In some cases, even if you can max it out with gear it's a good thing to have because you can free up slots for other items. For instance, you can memorize Empowered Cat's Grace and 2 Extended AoV's, then you only need a Boots of the Sun Soul +5 with +3 Dex enhancement to cap DEX 75% of the time, which frees up the bracer and belt slots for other items. There has to be a worthwhile item to fill each of the slots however, so it's environment dependent.
Quote: Alas, just the 3 of us chatting is such a sad end to this magnificant guild even though the best may still be here, it just feels lonely
Let's be honest, the guild was kind of quiet already before the news of deletion came across. It's up to us to keep the flame alive while we are still here .
. However, I would change one little thing about the spread now that I see it, it's only a minor tweak anyway. Since I don't get Discipline, there's no reason to delay that last Monk level. I'd take it at 34 for earlier Improved Evasion.
even though the best may still be here, it just feels lonely