I believe that making a shifter is a build that takes a lot of tweaking and debugging but I also believe that if you make one right it can pretty much take out any other char. I'm looking at a druid/shifter/cleric for the build and specifically the forms Rakshasa and the Undead Lord. No dragon forms because they are slow and cumbersome and are just a big target to get hit. I know a lot of people take monk instead of cleric but I believe with the clerical buffs it will be much better.

Rakshasa form pretty much makes you immune to spell casters and gives you TS for people that play on servers where TS just adds to your spot/listen. With an immunity to spells 1-8, infinite dispell, and the ability to see sneakers that takes care of those classes.

The Undead Lord gives you some pretty nice immunites including critical hit and sneak attacks. So all those dev critters and sneak attack masters won't be able to touch you. I play on a low magic server(+5 items) and I heard of someone doing around 100 dmg a hit with their Undead Lord form.

My problem is figuring out feats and attributes to take since shifting changes so many things. Some forms give you feats and some shapes keep certain attributes. Basically it's hard to figure out what feats are a MUST have and what are some that don't need to be taken at all. Also are the items that transfer over in shifted form the same for all shapes or does it depend.
Quote: Posted 08/13/04 20:47:37 (GMT) -- highlife262626

The Undead Lord gives you some pretty nice immunites including critical hit and sneak attacks. So all those dev critters and sneak attack masters won't be able to touch you. I play on a low magic server(+5 items) and I heard of someone doing around 100 dmg a hit with their Undead Lord form.

Just an FYI: the immunity to crits from PM does not confer immunity to sneak attack - you can still be sneaked.

Sorry I can't help you with the Shifter questions, I don't know anything about them (never played them).
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"Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!" You might want to consider a 5 druid/16 shifter/19 cleric. If you take magic domain you can get maximized ice storm at a much higher dmg. It isn't sacrificing much with low druid levels since your cleric buffs are generally superior to a druids. Depending on how you play you might want decent con and str for early on before you get really good shapes.
str 14
dex 8
con 12
int 12
wis 18
chr 8
This should start you off well and give your char a chance before you get your really good shapes.

Somes cons for this build is it's relatively weak in it's natural form, with only 24 bab possible and 3 attacks/round. On a low magic would and with cleric buffs however you should still seem very powerful. On a +5 magic world a cleric has the most powerful armor and weapon at lvl 15
Quote: Posted 08/13/04 22:58:21 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din

Quote: Posted 08/13/04 20:47:37 (GMT) -- highlife262626

The Undead Lord gives you some pretty nice immunites including critical hit and sneak attacks. So all those dev critters and sneak attack masters won't be able to touch you. I play on a low magic server(+5 items) and I heard of someone doing around 100 dmg a hit with their Undead Lord form.

Just an FYI: the immunity to crits from PM does not confer immunity to sneak attack - you can still be sneaked.

Sorry I can't help you with the Shifter questions, I don't know anything about them (never played them).

Sorry I should have clarified about the Undead Lord. I wasn't speaking about the palemaster build on the epic characters build portion of biowares website. I was speaking of the Undead Lord shape that a shifter can get. It's an epic feat called Undead shape. It lets you change into either an Undead Lord(lich looking guy with a scythe), Vampire, or a Specter(I think it's a specter?)

The only shapes I'm truly interested in is the Rakshasa and the Undead Lord shape so the minimum amount of shifter lvls required for these the better. I'm guessing pump everything into wisdom because it seems that is the only attribute that definetly transfers for every shape. That way the DC of all the cleric spells will be pretty good and maybe zen archery would be a good feat just to help in the lvling process. Also I'm wondering if weapon finesse would be a good feat for the shapes that are dex based unless that is those shapes give you the feat for free.

What I really need is a detailed description of each shape. I need to know what abilitys are gained, what feats are gained, what attributes transfer over, and what items transfer over. Does anyone know of a website or somewhere I can go to find this information. As far as how shifting affects your character, it does only several things. First your INT, WIS, and CHA will not change. They are static in whatever form you are in. Second any buffs like bull's str or cat's grace get added when you shift. Third your main hand wapons abilities merge into your shifted forms attacks (but I think this is only when in a form that uses a weapon) Any resistances from armor or other items carry over, as well as other abilities like regen and freedom.

Therefor you can still pick skills and feats fairly easily. You need to avoid weapon related feats though. Unless you plan on using a certain forma lot, your weapon type changes around to much. You could pick up unarmed feats as about a third of your forms use anarmed. One thing to tell you if a form is using unarmed or a natural weapon, is look in the toolset. go to the creature wizard and look at their inventory. There is a tab at the top of what looks liek a normal inventory that has natural items. Look on that tab for any weapons they may be using when it says unarmed in your character sheet. Well I messed around a little bit more and found out that in some forms your intelligence and your wisdom changed. The mindflayer form changes both of these. But for the most part you are right those 3 attributes stay the same. I found that forms that are dex based come with the weapon finesse feat so there is no need to take that one. It seems to me at this point that you should put all your attributes into wisdom because even if you have a high strength, say around 20, all the shapes have a set strength and will either lower it, stay the same, or rise it.

This gets me thinking though. Does your lvl of shifter effect the attributes of all your shapes. For example is a lvl 20 shifter have a stronger risen lord shape than a lvl 13 shifter? This will answer any questions about shifters.
Go here and then click on Shifter FAQ.
Click Here

Edited By highlife262626 on 08/14/04 16:59