What kind of damage is it? Is there any effective way to guard against it? IGMS really annoys me because it always seems to be the biggest potential weakness of _every_ single one of my builds in PvP, especially anything that can't soak more than two.
The damage is magic. I don't know if regular DR stops it, but X/magic I know does. Also variosu mage protection spells work well. Rakasha form for shifters laughs at sorcerers tossing mass IGMs.
Quote: Posted 08/20/04 20:59:33 (GMT) -- Emrill
The damage is magic. I don't know if regular DR stops it, but X/magic I know does. Also variosu mage protection spells work well. Rakasha form for shifters laughs at sorcerers tossing mass IGMs.
I am not sure, but should pure monk be able to withstand the IGMs as well?
Anuis
Quote: Posted 08/20/04 21:57:55 (GMT) -- Anuis
Quote: Posted 08/20/04 20:59:33 (GMT) -- Emrill
The damage is magic. I don't know if regular DR stops it, but X/magic I know does. Also variosu mage protection spells work well. Rakasha form for shifters laughs at sorcerers tossing mass IGMs.
I am not sure, but should pure monk be able to withstand the IGMs as well?
Anuis
I'd be really interested in finding out if regular DR works or not.. I doubt it very much. [bold]What is "X/magic?"[/bold]
And Anuis, pure monk, cleric, or druid would be able to stop some IGMS against a pure (or near pure) caster, with 50 (or as much as 64, in other words 90% immune, if you waste 7 feats), 52, and 52 SR available to them, respectively (at least I'm fairly sure that IGMS allows an SR save..). I should've mentioned that I wasn't really looking for SR as an answer, because to get such high SR you really sacrifice a lot in your build. Plus, considering a pure caster with spell penetration would get 46+1d20 to beat your SR, all of the builds would still be at best 30% immune, except for the monk that wastes 7 feats and is therefore ridiculously weak in every other respect.
Quote: Posted 08/20/04 22:19:11 (GMT) -- yrtsns
Quote: Posted 08/20/04 21:57:55 (GMT) -- Anuis
Quote: Posted 08/20/04 20:59:33 (GMT) -- Emrill
The damage is magic. I don't know if regular DR stops it, but X/magic I know does. Also variosu mage protection spells work well. Rakasha form for shifters laughs at sorcerers tossing mass IGMs.
I am not sure, but should pure monk be able to withstand the IGMs as well?
Anuis
I'd be really interested in finding out if regular DR works or not.. I doubt it very much. [bold]What is "X/magic?"[/bold]
And Anuis, pure monk, cleric, or druid would be able to stop some IGMS against a pure (or near pure) caster, with 50 (or as much as 64, in other words 90% immune, if you waste 7 feats), 52, and 52 SR available to them, respectively (at least I'm fairly sure that IGMS allows an SR save..). I should've mentioned that I wasn't really looking for SR as an answer, because to get such high SR you really sacrifice a lot in your build. Plus, considering a pure caster with spell penetration would get 46+1d20 to beat your SR, all of the builds would still be at best 30% immune, except for the monk that wastes 7 feats and is therefore ridiculously weak in every other respect.
Not if you plan the monk feat correctly. Since you get bonuses, only take spell resistances during that, but you can take couple during normal feat selection as well. I was able to get up to Improved Spell Resistance VII with feats that I took in order to make the build stronger(ie; great cleave, Epic Weapon Focus, etc).
The build that I did was able to get spell resistance to 64. And had epic weapon focus(unarmed strike)*, and Ki Strike +5 which can bypass creature's damage reduction. This type of monk should be able to take out any caster in couple rounds before the IGMs can take the monk out. And don't forget, the monk can get damage reduction of 20/+1.
In my opinion, this build isn't really useless. It is useful when used in party, if there is a caster in emeny group and no one in your party can't get close enough because of the IGMs. Just walk in and kick the caster's arse because of your spell resistance. And your group, say one of them is Fighter, you can use the fighter to distract any caster's defenders(ie; familiars, or guard which is fighter in that enemy group).
If you did that, you would be able to take out the caster.
Anuis
No it's definitely not useless, and of course has its own set of strengths, but against most melee characters and archers it will get thoroughly demolished, for one of two reasons: 1. You are a dex monk, and your damage output sucks (and your ac isnt spectacular). 2. You are a strength monk, and your ac sucks. (and the 20/+1 will be no help at all)
And one thing to consider is: If you have a pure caster with IGMS, he's got Epic Mage Armor too, meaning he will probably have 60 ac easily. In all likelihood, you'll barely be able to hit pure casters.
Sorry to keep bashing the build. I don't mean to be unappreciative of the suggestion, if it seems that way. I'm just trying to be more specific about what I'm looking for in terms of IGMS soaking (in other words not SR, if that possibility exists... still need to know what X/magic means).
I should also specify that healing potions are not an option (because I don't like the use of potions in any situation), though obviously healing spells would be a good solution, but I'm curious about stopping the damage, or some of it, rather than simply healing it.
Regular damage resistance is worthless, as is any kind of elemental resistance. You need MAGICAL damage resistance, which really appears on very few items in most modules. However, if you are playing on a server that allows custom equipment, a measly 5/- magical resistance will pretty much nullify IGMS. There is not way to do this directly to your character, however, it can only be conferred by equipment. While you're at it, you might want to consider fire resistance because, as soon as the caster sees twenty zero's roll up over your head, he will rethink his strategy quickly. For a sorceror, this probably means flame arrow as the next resort. _________________ Où est ma tête?
Quote: Posted 08/20/04 23:21:37 (GMT) -- yrtsns
No it's definitely not useless, and of course has its own set of strengths, but against most melee characters and archers it will get thoroughly demolished, for one of two reasons: 1. You are a dex monk, and your damage output sucks (and your ac isnt spectacular). 2. You are a strength monk, and your ac sucks. (and the 20/+1 will be no help at all)
Not if you do WIS based Monk. WIS adds to the AC. You should be able to get decent AC from this. If you did 30 WIS monk, you will have 10 bonus. Plus the tumble modifier. The highest I have done was 35.
The damage reduction that monk gets can be useful in some cases.
Quote: And one thing to consider is: If you have a pure caster with IGMS, he's got Epic Mage Armor too, meaning he will probably have 60 ac easily. In all likelihood, you'll barely be able to hit pure casters.
That is the point of the group, if you have caster in your group. Use him/her to buff you up, it should be enough.
Anyway, instead of doing pure monk, you can do monk/rogue. Doing that type of build, you should be able to get sneak attack, which can be useful in many cases. You have high hide/move silently skill, but this would be nullified if the caster has true seeing casted on himself/herself.
Quote: Sorry to keep bashing the build. I don't mean to be unappreciative of the suggestion, if it seems that way. I'm just trying to be more specific about what I'm looking for in terms of IGMS soaking (in other words not SR, if that possibility exists... still need to know what X/magic means).
No problem.
Quote: I should also specify that healing potions are not an option (because I don't like the use of potions in any situation), though obviously healing spells would be a good solution, but I'm curious about stopping the damage, or some of it, rather than simply healing it.
By doing monk, you should be able to get feat that heal you half of your level I think... pretty useful if you know what you are doing.
Anuis
I didn't mention wis monk because it will have no ab or damage output to speak of, unless it does zen archery in which case it loses a lot of monk bonuses and still has no damage output to speak of. You do get a pretty good DC Quivering Palm, but of course you have to hit for it to work, and it's only once a day. The wholeness of body feat heals a maximum of 80 hp, which of course is useful, but not very. And as far as the monk/rogue... you lose SR for every level of rogue you take. To get any halfway decent sneak attack you'll need several rogue levels, meaning your SR loses quite a bit of effectiveness and you miss out on some monk feats (which were being used for SR). Which isn't to say you can't make a decent monk/rogue, you just can't get spectacular SR out of it. Once again, sorry if it seems like I'm arguing just for the sake of argument. I probably am.
Quote: Posted 08/20/04 23:32:00 (GMT) -- Andune
Regular damage resistance is worthless, as is any kind of elemental resistance. You need MAGICAL damage resistance, which really appears on very few items in most modules. However, if you are playing on a server that allows custom equipment, a measly 5/- magical resistance will pretty much nullify IGMS. There is not way to do this directly to your character, however, it can only be conferred by equipment.
Thanks, that's what I was afraid of. God I hate IGMS.
Quote: Posted 08/21/04 00:41:20 (GMT) -- yrtsns
I didn't mention wis monk because it will have no ab or damage output to speak of, unless it does zen archery in which case it loses a lot of monk bonuses and still has no damage output to speak of. You do get a pretty good DC Quivering Palm, but of course you have to hit for it to work, and it's only once a day. The wholeness of body feat heals a maximum of 80 hp, which of course is useful, but not very. And as far as the monk/rogue... you lose SR for every level of rogue you take. To get any halfway decent sneak attack you'll need several rogue levels, meaning your SR loses quite a bit of effectiveness and you miss out on some monk feats (which were being used for SR). Which isn't to say you can't make a decent monk/rogue, you just can't get spectacular SR out of it. Once again, sorry if it seems like I'm arguing just for the sake of argument. I probably am.
True about that...
Anyway, to answer your original question. You can try Druid/Shifter character. If you shift to couple of the shapes, most of them should have immunity to most of the spells. Possibly Raskasha I think. Also, by doing Dragon Shape, you would be able to get real nice attack and decent spell resistance(22 I believe). Also, they are immune to spells as well. Especially if you do Infinite Elemental Shape(Improved Elemental Shape as well).
The build that I did recently(not posted yet), it was able to get 200ish damage from breath weapon against 15 AC creature. And it also can damage 60 AC creature by 20-40ish. The weapon never misses... but as for physical attack, it misses most of the time against high AC creatures. And it has many ability to cast certain spells that can severely hurt the caster class.
Anyway.... All of the shapes that you take, they compense for low STR, DEX, and CON. When you change, they will increase to 30ish depending on shape you change into. But there are few circumstances where it only increases WIS and INT, which is flayer I think.
I am not sure if I am making any sense... lol.
Anuis
Quote: Posted 08/21/04 00:50:21 (GMT) -- Anuis Also, by doing Dragon Shape, you would be able to get real nice attack and decent spell resistance(22 I believe). Also, they are immune to spells as well. Especially if you do Infinite Elemental Shape(Improved Elemental Shape as well).
The build that I did recently(not posted yet), it was able to get 200ish damage from breath weapon against 15 AC creature. And it also can damage 60 AC creature by 20-40ish. The weapon never misses... but as for physical attack, it misses most of the time against high AC creatures. And it has many ability to cast certain spells that can severely hurt the caster class.
First of all, the "they are immune to spells as well" part... Dragons are immune to spells? I know they have certain dragon immunities, but that only covers a small portion of spells... right? It wouldn't cover IGMS, would it? And it's funny you mention a breath-based dragon because just earlier today I was thinking about how versatile a build that could be, with 37 druid and 6 monk (or a few less druids and squeeze in another class for bonuses of some kind). For those you can't hit with your fists, use your high DC/high damage breath weapon. For those you can, do. Plus you get really decent Spell Resistance (46 if you go 34 druid) 10% extra speed, evasion, sweet AC of 65 easily, deflect arrows, IKD, lots of high DC druid spells for when not shaped, some heals for when not shaped (which in 1.64 will mean you can unshape, heal, shape, I guess... well, twice you can.) I'll probably post this somewhat unimaginative but nonetheless exceedingly versatile build (unless of course it's already been posted, which is quite likely) in a few days... just hope it isn't too similar to yours. Another question though... the breath weapon damage is diminished by AC??? How does that one work?
Quote: Posted 08/21/04 02:18:28 (GMT) -- yrtsns
First of all, the "they are immune to spells as well" part... Dragons are immune to spells? I know they have certain dragon immunities, but that only covers a small portion of spells... right? It wouldn't cover IGMS, would it? (quote)
Sorry about confusion. They are immune to some spells, but not IGMs. But, there is one creature that can withstand that and is immune to IGMs is Rakshasa.
(quote) And it's funny you mention a breath-based dragon because just earlier today I was thinking about how versatile a build that could be, with 37 druid and 6 monk (or a few less druids and squeeze in another class for bonuses of some kind). For those you can't hit with your fists, use your high DC/high damage breath weapon. For those you can, do. Plus you get really decent Spell Resistance (46 if you go 34 druid) 10% extra speed, evasion, sweet AC of 65 easily, deflect arrows, IKD, lots of high DC druid spells for when not shaped, some heals for when not shaped (which in 1.64 will mean you can unshape, heal, shape, I guess... well, twice you can.) I'll probably post this somewhat unimaginative but nonetheless exceedingly versatile build (unless of course it's already been posted, which is quite likely) in a few days... just hope it isn't too similar to yours. Another question though... the breath weapon damage is diminished by AC??? How does that one work?
It is not similiar to mine. The one that I did is pure druid/shifter build. Both are epic classes, which consists of druid 26/shifter 14, they both are epic for the purpose of infinite shape for some shapes, such as Improved Elemental Shape, Greater Wild Shape I.
The breath weapon is dependant on how many levels of druid or druid/shifter you have. I am not sure if I am correct on this.
Anyway, I am not exactly sure how the AC diminishes the damage of the breath weapon... But when I did the test, every time I attack creature that has 60 AC, it always has damage of at least 12 to 40.
Anyway... I made a module that has demilich and 200 IGMs, 50 is normal Issac's Lesser Missiles, 50 normal Issac's Greater Missiles, and Maximized 50 Issac's Lesser Missiles and Maximized 50 Issac's Greater Missiles.
I took dragon form against the demilich, I was pretty much killed in couple rounds. I think it took three of IGMs to kill me. But then I changed into Rakshasa, and went up against demilich again. It could not damage me at all, but I could using Mestil's Acid Breath which can damage the demilich by 17.
If you should encounter any casters with IGMs, you can change into Rakshasa. But you only can do that if you have Shifter class. You have to be epic shifter in order to take Outsider Shape(which gives you Rakshasa shape), plus 25 WIS. You can take 11 shifter levels and be able to get some monk class. If you want 6 monk levels, add that to the amount of shifter levels, which is 17. Then add in six druid levels in order to access shifter class I think. That leaves you 17 levels to mess around with.
Anuis
Quote: Not if you do WIS based Monk. WIS adds to the AC. You should be able to get decent AC from this. If you did 30 WIS monk, you will have 10 bonus. Plus the tumble modifier. The highest I have done was 35.
To supercharge your Wisdom; take 10 COT levels; the last nine post-Epic. (GreatWisdom is a bonus feat for COT).
So you have 8 GreatWis feats taken before level 30; you'll easily get all 10 taken if you want, leaving you with a possible 38 Wisdom. . .. _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
There's one thing I forgot to factor in with SR... Mordekainen's Disjunction, which doesn't allow SR or any save, lowers your SR by 10, meaning that even if you blew 10 feats for a 70 SR Monk, a caster could lower it to 60 and penetrate about a quarter of the time. If you had a pure cleric/druid, they'd be able to drop you to 42 SR, meaning that even if they were only 26 pure, if they had epic spell penetration they'd penetrate 50% of the time, and if they were at least 36 pure, they'd penetrate 100% of the time. Have I mentioned yet that I hate IGMS? And xitooner... I don't understand what that has to do with anything . Plus that build would have 10 less SR.
Quote: And xitooner... I don't understand what that has to do with anything . Plus that build would have 10 less SR.
It has to do with pumping AC via Wisdom, of course. And its ironic you dont catch how that side-topic started, since if you trace the subject back, your comment about STR-based monks having low AC started it.
Sorry if it seemed off-topic; take the comment for what it was worth; a number of builds (some of them Monks) would kill for extremely high Wisdom by level 30; Dragon builds, Clerics, Druids, etc, so I thought it was worth mentioning.
As for SR; a 30/10 Monk/COT would have more SR than 99% of all builds, so I think you have to take it into perspective, dont ya think? Unless you are a Rakhasa-Shifter(where it doesnt matter) or a high-level Monk, being highly susceptible to IGMS is something you live with. Not much more to say after that _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
Edited By xitooner on 08/21/04 13:42
xitooner,
He asked a question that I wasn't able to answer... I am curious as well...
How does the AC affect the damage of the breath weapon?
As I mentioned while back, when I tested it. I was able to score 200 damage on 15 AC creature, but when I attacked 60 AC creature, it went down to 12/15 to 20/40.
So how does it work against the breath weapon? Since the 60 AC creature did not have any resistance against spells, so that was why I was able to score some damage 100% of the time. But the damage was less.
Anuis
Quote: How does the AC affect the damage of the breath weapon?
As I mentioned while back, when I tested it. I was able to score 200 damage on 15 AC creature, but when I attacked 60 AC creature, it went down to 12/15 to 20/40.
So how does it work against the breath weapon? Since the 60 AC creature did not have any resistance against spells, so that was why I was able to score some damage 100% of the time. But the damage was less.
Anuis
It certainly sounds odd, but I do remember hearing bugs at one time where the Shifter breath weapons would unexplicably lose power. I dont remember exactly, but I thought it had to do with one of: - it lost power with each use. or - the more you shifted, the less power your breaths had.
I think it reset when you rested. But it was so long back that I read about this, I'm not sure if its been fixed in the patches. _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
Quote: Posted 08/21/04 13:30:04 (GMT) -- xitooner
(quote)
As for SR; a 30/10 Monk/COT would have more SR than 99% of all builds, so I think you have to take it into perspective, dont ya think?
Certainly it would have more SR than a large percentage of builds, but I think my point was that a pure caster would chuckle at what turns out to be rather weak SR. (maximum of 60, if you use _10_ Epic Feats on it... loses 10 to Mordekainen's Disjunction, a pure caster with Epic Spell penetration lands over 75% of the time)
Quote: Certainly it would have more SR than a large percentage of builds, but I think my point was that a pure caster would chuckle at what turns out to be rather weak SR. (maximum of 60, if you use _10_ Epic Feats on it... loses 10 to Mordekainen's Disjunction, a pure caster with Epic Spell penetration lands over 75% of the time)
Yep. And so a well-built pure caster will chuckle at nearly ALL builds, from an SR standpoint, since only a near-pure Monk can have an SR they would even need to take a passing notice of, yes? So I think I'll just let them chuckle. I mean, if you cant even devote 10 levels to something else, then whats the point? From my point of view, if you cant win in that aspect, then its time to look for another area to improve, and be satisfied with the fact that (for example) a 30/10 Monk/XXX will naturally have more SR than 99% of all builds, which will be extremely effective against a lots of builds; but not a near-pure caster.
Or. . .you can focus near-pure Monk, and probably build something that has high-SR and is well able to beat a pure-Sorc run by the average joe. I do agree that this kind of build is very nice for beating high-level casters. But the tactics for a Sorc beating a high-SR monk are pretty standard too; ie Mestils, etc. But lets say you do make it through, and kill all those pure-casters. All you've done is make youself so focussed on beating the top dog that some other build for whom SR is a non-issue is going to clean YOUR clock.
And thats PvP in a nutshell. _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
Once again, that was exactly my point xitooner. To have effective SR against a pure caster, you have to make a ***ty build. Whether you can make a decent monk build with effective SR against half-breed casters or not is an entirely different issue. And just for the sake of argument, if you made a 30 monk and didnt use feats to raise SR, with MD you'd be dropped to 30 SR, so a lvl 21 caster with epic spell penetration would land on you on a roll of 4 or higher.. 80% of the time. Have I mentioned I hate IGMS? _________________ Have I mentioned I hate IGMS?
Quote: Once again, that was exactly my point xitooner. [snip] Have I mentioned I hate IGMS?
I'm glad we've made our points then; I guess now we can both go and tilt at our respective windmills.
And yes, IGMS pretty much ruins the challenge; more so than just about any spell. My casters rarely use it anymore. . . _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
Has anyone considered the skill Taunt? If you can successfully taunt a caster they will have 30% spell failure. If you couple that with a decent SR then the numbers would be in your favor. Just a thought I had.
Has anyone considered the skill Taunt? If you can successfully taunt a caster they will have 30% spell failure. If you couple that with a decent SR then the numbers would be in your favor. Just a thought I had.
Most decent caster builds have max discipline to stop taunts, and the skill is buggy to begin with, so it usually doesn't work at all or how you want it to.
Has anyone considered the skill Taunt? If you can successfully taunt a caster they will have 30% spell failure. If you couple that with a decent SR then the numbers would be in your favor. Just a thought I had.
Taunt is a Concentration check, and Concentration is any good caster's beefiest skill. That is an interesting thought though, and I'll definitely take it into consideration. And here goes: it lasts for five rounds, and I'm guessing it takes one round to perform. Now let's assume those five rounds are after your original taunt, that means six rounds total, one of which you lose. 1/6 = 16.66% They lose, in contrast 30% of their rounds, so when you subtract what they lose from what you lose, it's barely over a 13% advantage. And this is assuming you land your taunt every time, first time. Now, let's say you have a 43 taunt. They have a 43 concentration. From what I gather of the manual, each person does a check, in other words each person adds 1d20 to their score. So you fail 50% of the time, effectively doubling your time lost without affecting theirs at all (and also giving them some rounds without any arcane failure). Now you lose more "battle-time" than they do. Now if you used Epic Skill Focus: Taunt, you could increase your effectiveness (assuming they didn't have skill focus concentration, which many casters do) to 75%, which is a little better. But considering you only had a 13% advantage assuming 100% effectiveness, you're probably looking at sub-10% now. (You could also boost your taunt with charisma, and they could boost their concentration with constitution, as a sidenote). _________________ Have I mentioned I hate IGMS?
Quote: Posted 08/22/04 17:39:22 (GMT) -- yrtsns assuming they didn't have skill focus concentration, which many casters do
True, but most of the time, I don't take Skill Focus and Epic Skill Focus for the caster class.. they take up slots for something that is more useful. Such as epic spells. Especially if you are doing Druid/Shifter character with Dragon Shape, of course with that type of build you can still get Epic Skill Focus.
[insert whisper] I bet that everyone notices that I like to refer to Druid/Shifter build... In many circumstances, this type of build is powerful than others... depending on which class you are up against. Such as melee, you can change into something that can overtake the melee, depending on the level and feats that they took, and how high their DEX, STR, and CON is. [/insert whisper]
Anyway... I am not sure, but I am assuming that most of the caster class do not take regular skill focus feat for concentration and only take Epic Skill Focus: Concentration. If that is the case, that will give you advantage if you took both skill focus and epic skill focus for taunt skill.
It might make some differences.
Just throwing ideas around...
Anuis
Well if you used a build that has a good charisma such as paladin, bg, or bard then I believe that your taunt will be able to overcome most spellcasters concentration check. Most casters that I know don't put a lot of stats into constitution.
As for actually performing the taunt I'm not sure if it takes a round or not. I've been playing with a bard and I'll do bard song, then curse song, then taunt and sometimes after the curse song the taunt happens instantly.
It takes a full round and by the time you've gotten in range of the caster to taunt they have usually time stopped and killed you.
Yes time stop would hurt you a lot but I have not been in one server so far that allows that spell. So basically you can discount that spell out.
Another method you could use is the spell silence. I know there is a save vs the spell if you cast it on an opponent but if you cast it on yourself that is a different story. It creates a radius around you and anyone that enters it can't cast spells. I experimented with a friend and anytime I moved towards him nothing happened but everytime he made his character move into the circle he was silenced. I'm not sure if there is a save for just entering the cirlce.
Quote: Posted 08/23/04 01:59:43 (GMT) -- highlife262626 Another method you could use is the spell silence. I know there is a save vs the spell if you cast it on an opponent but if you cast it on yourself that is a different story. It creates a radius around you and anyone that enters it can't cast spells. I experimented with a friend and anytime I moved towards him nothing happened but everytime he made his character move into the circle he was silenced. I'm not sure if there is a save for just entering the cirlce.
Now silence is a good idea, and I'm not very familiar with how the spell works. If it doesnt work unless they move into the radius, as opposed to you rushing and forcing them into it, you can be sure any good caster wouldn't let it happen to them. I'd be interested to know on the technicalities of that. Does it work as long as they're in the radius, or do they have to move into it themselves? Maybe I'm just misinterpreting what you wrote. _________________ Have I mentioned I hate IGMS?
Rushing in with a silence spell on yourself will prevent a caster from casting a spell. He would have to land dispel before you reach him/her.
It exactly for this reason I actually wear dancers silhouette even though I lose AC with it.(the armor has the spell silence on it. However its the most uselessly designed armor in the game. Shadowdancer only and the most expensive light armor in the campaigns it has an AC of 3 (+6). Any shadowdancer that has the amount of cash to buy the armor also should have more than 34 dex (when you have the items belt of agility+10 and dragon boots/boots of the sun soul).
Rushing in with a silence spell on yourself will prevent a caster from casting a spell. He would have to land dispel before you reach him/her.
Awesome, thanks. _________________ Have I mentioned I hate IGMS?
Yes a lot of cleric builds use this tactic (espcially tank clerics). They have auto silence and then they use greater sanctuary to get in close. Then it's usually easy pickings.
. Plus that build would have 10 less SR.
And its ironic you dont catch how that side-topic started, since if you trace the subject back, your comment about STR-based monks having low AC started it. 
Such as melee, you can change into something that can overtake the melee, depending on the level and feats that they took, and how high their DEX, STR, and CON is.