Ending stats str 35 or 36 (but then without Armour skin) dex 8 con 18 int 16 wis 8 chr 16
Problems I have with this build: I cant get over 14 bab pre epic, so he only gets 3 attacks. I’ll end up with str35, since I need cha16 for my bard spells. Don’t know if I want warding and mage armour, maybe better with great str.
So what you think? How should I improve him? I’m building him on a high magic PvP world.
All replies will be gratefully considered.
Edited By True_light on 12/05/04 20:39
My first thoughts....In a high magic world, Epic Mage Armor is less valuable because you'll have plenty of magic items that provide AC bonuses close to the max permitted, and so the bonus that Mage Armor provides will be negligable.
There are some other Bard/RDD/PM builds in the list of builds - have you looked through those to see how you can improve or customize them?
Kaliban
Thx Kaliban. So dropping magr armour and getting great str insted, then I get str36 with amour skin. Yeah probably better. Think I get one more base attack if I go bard12 then RDD 8, goes from 14 to 15 I think, don't even have to change feat order. To answer your question no I haven't looked at other builds lately. I'll have a look though. You could argue that 10 lvl RDD is alot compaired to 6 lvl fighter but I liked the idea of RDD and PM in the same build. Tried it with socerer first but didnt work well. Any more comments?
I have built a build like this one with the same classes and lvls but a few things different.
3 attacks per round is the most you will be able to get. I would lvl it up like this to maximize AB:
12 bard 10 RDD 1 bard 16 PM 1 bard
That way you can max out AB and max out tumble at the very end for more AC. I would also go Human instead of Dwarf unless you are doing it for RP reasons. I also would advise taking the feat Curse Song because that helps a lot in PvP along with Taunt. I play on a low magic server and With heavy armor, epic mage armor, shield, and bard song I get my AC up to 82. Curse song lowers the opponents AB so in essence my AC goes up too.
Highlife thx for your response. I'll stick with my dwarf since my rp storry is set. What feat would you remove to get curse song? With your lvl progress I'll get one more attack but lose like 7 skill points. For skills i choose Concentration 40 Discipline 40 Preform 25 (read somewhere thats all a 16 bard need) Tumble 40 Spellcraft 35 (epic warding needs 34) Lore 8 Umd 37 (rest)
How many points for Taunt do I need?
Edited By True_light on 12/06/04 23:58
Ok you may be able to get rid of either Concentration or Discipline and this is why. I assume you are doing what I did with my char and have to remove your armor to cast buffs therefor you won't be casting in combat. Also people that use taunt are few and far between. Since you won't be casting in combat with 0 concentration the only problem will be taunt.
As for Discipline, it is only used for Knockdown, disarm, called shot. On my char I have on Dragon slippers that prevent knockdown and I'm on a low magic server so you may even have better items. Once again I have seen very few people use disarm and I have yet to see someone that uses called shot. (besides myself) Knockdown is the only one of those that can really be bad so if you don't have items with immunity to it then you need to keep discipline.
I would say get rid of concentration.
I can't really remember what my skill points were like but something like this:
Concentration 0 Discipline 40? (I think I threw whatever I had left in here) Preform 21 (that's the max you need with 14 lvls of bard) Tumble 40 Spellcraft 40 Listen 43 (True sight is nerfed on my server) Lore 8 Taunt 43 Umd 22 (becomes 25 for rolls due to Chr. modifier)
I'm not sure what you could get rid of to get curse song. Dwarf in my opinion makes this build all screwey. Any way you can switch to RP with a human?
I don't think you need to put 21 points into Perform because your Charisma bonus is added to your Perform skill. Subtract your Charisma bonus from 21 to find what Perform skill you need.
Regarding how/where to take Curse Song....if you elected to leave your end Charisma at 14 instead of 16, you would still be able to cast 4th level spells. Instead of taking Great Strength as a general feat and adding a point to Charisma on the same level, could you switch Bard level 13 and one of your PM levels, take Curse Song, and add a point to Strength?
ie at Level 36 take Bard 13 (Curse Song, Strength +1) instead of at Level 38.
Not sure if that's possible but I think 36 is a general feat level (rather than a PM bonus feat level).
Kaliban.
You have to have 21 points put into Perform for the bard song/curse song to work the way described. I tested it and if you have a perform that is lower but reaches 21 due to the modifier it doesn't work.
It's the same thing as having 30 spellcraft but with the modifier having 35, you still can't take epic spells because the base skill points aren't high enough. Same thing goes with Tumble, 38 points will only give you 7 extra AC even though with the modifier you have say 42 tumble.
I tested this a long time ago so I may need someone to confirm this.
Epic mage armour is fantastic, even, or especially in a high magic world. The reason being it lets you use items that may not have great AC but have excellent other stats. For example my Bard/RDD/PM wears a Mantle of Evocation, Dragon Slippers and an Amulet of Wings; none of which offer any AC bonuses. With Epic Mage Armour my AC is still 80, way higher than average (in my PW anyway). I also have Epic Warding but I've only used that a few times in emergencies.
Epic mage armour is fantastic, even, or especially in a high magic world. The reason being it lets you use items that may not have great AC but have excellent other stats. For example my Bard/RDD/PM wears a Mantle of Evocation, Dragon Slippers and an Amulet of Wings; none of which offer any AC bonuses. With Epic Mage Armour my AC is still 80, way higher than average (in my PW anyway). I also have Epic Warding but I've only used that a few times in emergencies.