A long time ago I asked about parry and found out that despite the description you can only parry 3 attacks per round. That's fine and all but it also says that the DC that you your parry skill gets rolled agaisnt is a modified attack roll of your opponent. Does anyone know exactly how that DC is determined? The DC is alleged to be the hit roll of your attacker. However have a look at the the following posts by myself in the following thread and you can see parry is definitely fubared.


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Syrath
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It's SHADOWDANCER, dammit, shadowdancer!!! That's interesting indeed. Let me describe the situation for you and see what your input is. I play on a low magic world i.e. +5 items are pretty much the max you'll find. I'm making a dexterity based duel weilding kukri build. Cleric/CoT/wm. He has 7 attacks per round, 10-20 criticals, and if i get my charisma to have +12 I can have an AB in the 70's for 7 rounds. With the physical dmg, darkfire dmg, sonic dmg, magic dmg, and divine dmg, I crit well over 100 dmg on a critical hit. This means any non crit immune opponent will be killed within the first 2 rounds. My fort is high enough to save against dev crit so my AC is not even a factor seeing as how I can kill faster than be killed. Now that leaves PM melees though. The only decent PM melee buiilds contain cleric or rdd. There can be other melee builds with PM but they are not as good as the two listed as their AC will be lower. The two effective PM builds are good but the max attacks per round they can have is 3. Seems to me that's perfect for parry. The rdd version has a low AB and the cleric version can have an AB in the 60's for a few rounds so having my parry at 70 should suffice.

What are your thoughts? Have a look at the rolls im talking about in the thread.

I have tested fights between the following 2 fighters

Attacker
Level 15 fighter
3 attacks per round
AB of 20 (iirc)

Defender
Level 12 rogue / 28 Assassin
43 Ranks in parry
40 DEX
epic gloves of swordplay (+30)
Epic Skill Focus(Parry +10)
Skill Focus (Parry =3)
Improved Parry(affects riposte only)
+10 DEX item

All in Parry skill was 106.

The level 15 fighter won the fight even when the rogue/assassin had concealment up.

The fighter shouldnt have been able to hit without a roll of 20, yet it consistently did.

Its not the 3 attack limit , its the fact that the skill just doesnt work.

The best modified AB the fighter could have got was 40. So how come 1d20 +106 failed more than 50 percent of the time.

Dont trust parry at all its a complete waste of time and effort.

Syrath
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It's SHADOWDANCER, dammit, shadowdancer!!! This makes me angry and sad. Is there any hope that bioware will fix this in an update? As Syrath once told me, I don't think so. He made a good point when he told me this; look at how many of the Prestige Classes have parry as a class skill....none. Not even the class skill king Champion of Torm. I feel your pain on this, but believe me, if parry worked as it should, it would be way overpowered. Especially when combined with epic dodge and SC5.
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If everyone is thinking alike, then someone is failing to think. I don't think it would be so overpowered if it was just limited to 3 attacks per round. Most melee builds have 4 plus haste makes 5. Aye but imagine this situation

Parry skill 70+
Self concealment V
Epic dodge

Even the best AB fighter in a no-magic world is going to have major problems in a one on one fight here.

Anything other than a 19 is a riposte. up to 3 attacks per round.

Attack 1. 1 in 40 chance of landing a hit. 2.5 %
Attack 2. 1 in 40 chance of landing a hit 2.5%
Attack 3. 1 in 40 chance of landing a hit 2.5%
Attack 4. (now at -15 AB) say roughly 1 in 4 chance of landing a hit 25%

Chance of landing 2 hits per round (1 is a hit 0 is a miss)
1001= 0.625 %
1010= 0.0625 %
1011= 0.015625%
1100= 0.0625%
1101= 0.015625%
1110= 0.0015625%
1111= 0.000390625 %
0101= 0.625%
0110= 0.0625%
0111= 0.015625%
0011= 0.625%
TOTAL =2.67734375% chance to hit per round. or roughly in in 40 rounds.

These are pretty bad odds for similar level characters. More attacks of course make this easier. Remember that the defender is riposting 3 attacks per round and only misses on a roll of 1.

Thats 114 ripostes (6 miss) against the attackers 1 attack. And that is with parry working with only 3 attacks per round.

Parry sould in essence be removed completely from pvp if it ever starts to work.

Syrath
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It's SHADOWDANCER, dammit, shadowdancer!!!

Edited By syrath1001 on 03/22/05 03:46

I see your point exactly. Although remember a reposite attack does not mean that it's a hit. They still have to beat the attackers AC but that's besides the point. Well we once again see how retarded bioware has made this game. If they see how overpowerd this skill is how can they not see how overpowered a lvl 38 sorc is? Seems they caught the parry but missed the igms, mage shields, and harm, although that's cleric .
Quote: Posted 03/22/05 09:02:29 (GMT) -- highlife262626

I see your point exactly. Although remember a reposite attack does not mean that it's a hit. They still have to beat the attackers AC but that's besides the point. Well we once again see how retarded bioware has made this game. If they see how overpowerd this skill is how can they not see how overpowered a lvl 38 sorc is? Seems they caught the parry but missed the igms, mage shields, and harm, although that's cleric .

Epic levels really seem to miss out class balance. However pnp is not about class balance its about teamwork against adversity. Not about pitting your wits against another player. Parry btw was never in the game.

Syrath
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It's SHADOWDANCER, dammit, shadowdancer!!!