I'm currently playing in Kobold Commando shape at a PvP server and I noticed something odd.

I'm a dwarf and thus have the race adjusted abilities +2 CON -2 CHA - when I shift the race adjustment is removed and all stats are set as if I was a human!

Sounds like a bug to me, you shouldn't lose your race features when shifting (other than the adjustment from the form you shift into). Note all other dwarf abilities are kept.

I guess I pretty much got nerfed by picking dwarf, I might as well have picked human and have gotten the extra feat 43 skill points and no XP penalty

Edited By MartinJHolm on 05/16/05 10:26

It is not a bug. Dwarfs get -2 Charisma b/c they are short and ugly. Other forms are not so much. Shifted forms get bonuses and no negatives so in essence you are right they basically go human but not entirelly. Picking Dwarf enables you to raise Const higher at char creation then you would human thus having more HP's in shifted form. All you really need for shifters is 18 wis, 14 int, and the rest into const b/c charisma don't matter and everything else changes when shifted. Being human would mean you would have a lower starting const and imho the extra feat isn't worth it b/c all the important feats for shifters are epic char feats. When you shift you are no longer a dwarf. Your abilities become those of the race you shifted to.
For example.
As a Drow; you automatically get +2 dex.
As a Drow, also, your favoured class is wizard - so you could incur an xp penalty (iirc) if you have a third class and that class is eg rogue or monk.

This would be the number one reason most shifter advocates suggest human.

Bear in mind too; that almost every one of your base stats are actually ignored for most shapes. The only one that consistantly is used seems to be wisdom. Next constant is cons; then dex, etc. STR and DEX are replaced by set scores for most of the shapes, CON by about half of them
INT and WIS get a bonus in Mindflayer shape but otherwise stay the same
CHA is not changed by shape
However you always lose race-based Ability bonuses when you shift
I tried playing a Yuan-To Druid/Shifter and got a hell of a shock when I first shifted and found out I'd lost my +8 INT, +8 WIS and +6 CHA
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Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette. Sorry you people don't have to talk to me like I don't understand it - it seems as if you don't understand me.

I know how shifting works, I know that your stats change because you change your 'race' that's completely besides what I ask.

Why are you base stats chaged to AS IF you were human no matter what class you are, when you retain ALL the other abilities of your original class.

I'm pretty sure it's either an implementation problem or a bug.
Quote: Why are you base stats chaged to AS IF you were human no matter what class you are, when you retain ALL the other abilities of your original class.
Not sure I see what class has impact on it all; but you are changed first to base stat (or human/half-elf stats) _then_ shifted stats get applied. You retain all your feats, be they based on those enhanced stats (eg 21 cons + epic dr that is now cons 19) or not; even though your stats are changed to a point that could make those feats no longer valid to use. Your feats still remain active as they are a part of your inner being; the 'real' you.

If that makes sense. I tend to ramble a lot

Edited By Khandahr on 05/16/05 15:38

Quote: Posted 05/16/05 15:28:19 (GMT) -- Khandahr

Quote: Why are you base stats chaged to AS IF you were human no matter what class you are, when you retain ALL the other abilities of your original class.
Not sure I see what class has impact on it all; but you are changed first to base stat (or human/half-elf stats) _then_ shifted stats get applied. You retain all your feats, be they based on those enhanced stats (eg 21 cons + epic dr that is now cons 19) or not; even though your stats are changed to a point that could make those feats no longer valid to use. Your feats still remain active as they are a part of your inner being; the 'real' you.

If that makes sense. I tend to ramble a lot

Pretty sure he understands all that. I think his point is that it doesn't make sense. I mean, some of the feats, like a dwarf's defensive/offensive training and stonecunning are more mental, and since INT and WIS are kept, retaining those makes sense. But why would you retain things like darkvision or hardiness vs. poisons? Those are physical traits of a dwarf body. I think his point is that it doesn't make much sense for his physical stats to ignore the fact that he was a dwarf (by not taking into account the dwarf penalties/bonuses) even though he is still being given physical feats that are specific to a dwarven form. It's a bit of an inconsistency.

Steve Thanks - pretty much my point - I'm not that great with words, so I wanna thank you for getting the job done.

As far as I know the nwn-shifter is something Bioware made anyway so I guess they can do it like they like, it not like I can check the rulebooks to see if it's right.

Another funny think about the kobold shape is that it gets things it cant use. Use poison and set traps aren't possible when you're in shifted form (since you cannot access your inventory), so I don't really see the point in Bioware adding those. Sorry I misunderstood you
Shifter is a class with a lot of quirks
Every time I play 1 I learn something new, usually unwelcome
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Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.