Here is a build that I was hoping to post on the epic build thread. I found a few similar builds, but they all used a 2-handed weapon and/or had a different build focus. I've tried it a couple of different ways, but this seems to level the easiest. Please feel free to critque and point out any ways that it could/should be fixed before I post it.
WarPriest of the DragonLords
Cleric 17 / Bard 8 / Red Dragon Disciple 15
Human any alignment
Str. 14 (30) Dex 14 (15) Con 14 (16) Int 10 (12) Wis 14 (19) Cha. 12 (14)
AB (w/ mundane Kukri) Main hand: 37/32/27 Off hand: 37/32
AC (full Plate) 34
Fortitude 26 Reflex 21 Will 30
A few last notes about my thoughts on this build...
The AB seems low, but I with some cleric buffs I can usually up it my 15 or so.
Because I found that most Cleric buffing levels stop around spell level 6, I only bothered taking Cleric to 12 pre-epic. I had thought about taking Cleric to only 8 pre-epic and RDD to 8 pre-epic, But I figured that I would need the Improved Invisibilty more than the RDD AC bonuses.
I pretty much neglect the Bard spells only using the Bard levels for the Bard Song and Tumble, UMD, and Discipline point dumps. I could have used less Bard levels in this build, but I wanted to make this build as playable from level 1 as possible, therefore the frequent point dumps.
The Kukri choice was mainly for flavor and the extended Crit range. I suppose that If you wanted to try for Dev. Crit, you could use Sickle's as your focused weapon.
Anyway, feel free to critque at will. I know that it isn't a powergamer build, per se, but if anyone has any advice for tweaking it I would love to hear it.
Thanks.
Looks nice to me, I love the stats you get from rdd . I'm wondering why you used 15 rdd though, rp? Only nine builds posted here have ever used more than 10 levels of rdd, one of them is mine and only has an 11th level at the end for skill dumping.
Edited By pulse cap on 08/10/05 15:39
Quote: Posted 08/10/05 15:25:48 (GMT) -- pulse cap
I'm wondering why you used 15 rdd though, rp? Only nine builds posted here have ever used more than 10 levels of rdd, one of them is mine and only has an 11th level at the end for skill dumping.
Mainly for RP purposes, but also, while perusing the other RDD builds, someone mentioned that RDD gets an extra 1 AC every 5 levels after 10.
Quite honestly I was just looking for a good class to dump those last epic levels into. More Cleric would just have gotten me more high-end spells that everyone would save againts and Bard levels seemed a waste with my low Charisma (althought the Bard song would have been nice). In the end, I just put them into RDD for the RP flavor and the extra +1 AC.
I would leave RDD at 10 and take cleric to 22, he will be harder to dispel, more spells per day and they will last longer. With 22 cleric levels you will be even enough for PvM, depending on how well they resist magic.
Putting those levels on bard could give the build other taste (better bardsong and better skills).
All you will lose is flame weapon DC (but you can use it once per day), HP (a good ammount, to be true), and an epic bonus RDD feature.
I doubt it is because skillpoints, bard has a fantastic skillset. _________________ HEAD KNIGHT: Shh shh. We are now the Knights Who Say Ekke ekke ekke ptang zoo boing! RANDOM: Ni!
I would leave RDD at 10 and take cleric to 22, he will be harder to dispel, more spells per day and they will last longer. With 22 cleric levels you will be even enough for PvM, depending on how well they resist magic.
hmmm....that is a good point. Having your buffs dispelled during battle can be disasterous. Substituting Cleric would only lose me 10 HP and +1 AC out of the deal. But keeping my buffs would more than make up for it. Plus any extra Undeath's Eternal Foe castings for AC stacking is always a good thing.
I'll wait a bit for any other thoughts and then rework it and post the new build.
Thanks for all input so far...
I like "magic" level nubers. RDD 10 is obvious. Cleric 15 gives the best bang to your buffs. Bard 14 gives the best song without going crazy or requiring tons of perform. You might try to work in curse song as a feat. And for skills, taunt is a good one for bard. Essentially, if you sing, curse, and taunt, then you wont notice that you have a lower AB.
Edited By Unforgettableknight on 08/10/05 18:23
Quote: Posted 08/10/05 16:23:59 (GMT) -- dmuzzy Cleric would only lose me 10 HP and +1 AC
I think you will lose 20HP, epic rdd gets 12 hp/level, cleric gets 8. Or perhaps you meant 10 with buffs up, I know divine favor adds 1 per level, I guess there may be others too, I'm not much good at clerics. Anyway, I agree that 22 cleric and 10 rdd would probably be better from a powergaming point of view.
Quote: Posted 08/10/05 18:22:17 (GMT) -- Unforgettableknight Cleric 15 gives the best bang to your buffs.
I don't quite get that one, I'd say cleric buffs will be much better at lvl 22. With only 15 cleric your buffs will only have a 1/4 chance of surviving a mord's dis, you won't have as many of them, and they won't last as long.
Edited By pulse cap on 08/10/05 20:30
Quote: Posted 08/10/05 20:27:11 (GMT) -- pulse cap
Quote: Posted 08/10/05 18:22:17 (GMT) -- Unforgettableknight Cleric 15 gives the best bang to your buffs.
I don't quite get that one, I'd say cleric buffs will be much better at lvl 22. With only 15 cleric your buffs will only have a 1/4 chance of surviving a mord's dis, you won't have as many of them, and they won't last as long.
I think I know what UnforgettableKnight wants to say. Some cleric useful buffs get maxed by cleric level 15 (Shield of faith, divine favour, magic vestments, greater magic weapon...) giving more cleric levels makes them last longer and harder to dispel. BTW, some others only get better with the time (Magic resistance, Blade barrier).
If it is only about getting buffs and maxing them without caring about getting dispelled nor how long they last (for example, no resting restrictions), it would be enough with 15 cleric levels. The next "magic" level for cleric is 17, when he gets level 9 spells (eternal undeath's foe is great, and storm of vengeance works wonders when you get surrounded by weaker minions). 15 is the very minimum levels I would give to cleric in any build, 17 would be my personal acceptable minimum, from there, the more the better. _________________ HEAD KNIGHT: Shh shh. We are now the Knights Who Say Ekke ekke ekke ptang zoo boing! RANDOM: Ni!
Edited By fernandooa on 08/10/05 22:08
Right, I guess I should have seen that one. I think I've spent too much time on a server where they max out at lvl 30.
fernandooa hit the nail on the head. Thanks for expanding on my point!
My other point was that he seems to be focused on fighting. So it would be a shame to not also have some of the bard spells that are really good like Keen, haste, wounding whispers, warcry, etc. Also, if you have access to improved invis as a bard, you free up a cleric domain because you dont have to take trickery for improved invis. Your song is also now giving you (over level 8 bard) +1 damage, +8 hp, and +3 AC.
While agree that cleric 17 or more is better, the only way to fit 17 or more is to start making your bard levels worth less to worthless. At that point, you are probably better off going going way more cleric like C28/B2/RDD10, but he also loses his skillpoint dumps along his career.
So my ultimate point is that if you want to go RDD, Cleric and Bard, a 10RDD/15C/14B split seems like a logical choice. Then maybe take an extra bard level at the end to max skill points.
fernandooa hit the nail on the head. Thanks for expanding on my point!
My other point was that he seems to be focused on fighting. So it would be a shame to not also have some of the bard spells that are really good like Keen, haste, wounding whispers, warcry, etc. Also, if you have access to improved invis as a bard, you free up a cleric domain because you dont have to take trickery for improved invis. Your song is also now giving you (over level 8 bard) +1 damage, +8 hp, and +3 AC.
While agree that cleric 17 or more is better, the only way to fit 17 or more is to start making your bard levels worth less to worthless. At that point, you are probably better off going going way more cleric like C28/B2/RDD10, but he also loses his skillpoint dumps along his career.
So my ultimate point is that if you want to go RDD, Cleric and Bard, a 10RDD/15C/14B split seems like a logical choice. Then maybe take an extra bard level at the end to max skill points.
That is a very good alternative, and makes a lot of sense. I think, though, that I will probably go with the C22/B8/RDD10 split for a number of reasons.
1) I had to gimp my Charisma for the Dex points to make this a dual-wield build. Granted, if I only went to Cleric spell level 8, I would only need a Wis of 18 so I could then put that into Charisma, which would get it up to 15; enough for 5th level Bard spells. But...
2) If I were to put more Bard into this build, it would be a shame not to have Curse Song, and perhaps Lingering Song and Still Spell. Unfortuately this build is already a bit feat starved.
3) I have run into trouble on my PW by certain mobs that spam Dispel Magic's. Hopefully the extra Cleric levels will help in that regards.
4) And probably most importantly... I was trying to stay away from some of the other Cleric/Bard/RDD builds that were out there. The build breakdown that you listed is nearly identical to cdaulepp's.
I think that your build is definately a stronger and more versatile build than mine. I especially like being able to pull the Improved Invs. from the Bard spell list and free up the Cleric domains for War and Strength.
But thanks to everyone for your input. You made me think about a few things that I hadn't considered.
. I'm wondering why you used 15 rdd though, rp? Only nine builds posted here have ever used more than 10 levels of rdd, one of them is mine and only has an 11th level at the end for skill dumping.