Ok, my brain is near meltdown working on these two builds. They are the product of one build that I just could not fit into 40 levels so I sort of split them apart and these two were born.
I'm not very experienced with clerics or archers. I desperately need some suggestions and/or improvements. You can even bleed sarcasm - just let me know what you guys think.
Few rules I am trying to stay with: PvM - This is for a PW where having a cleric in the party is very helpful. The earlier the res the better. Ranged/Casting - trying to balance this as best I can.
I guess I'm trying to make a bad arse archer that can heal, res, and buff like nobodys business.
Version 1: Cleric of the Bow Human Cleric(32)/ Fighter(8)
Str 13 Dex 13 Con 10 Int 10 Wis 18(36) Cha 8
Playable 1-40 PvM Alignment: <any> <any> Domains: Healing and Travel
AB 38/33/28/23 (Mundane Longbow) Damage 1-8 + 6 19-20x3 BAB 26 Base AC 12 HP 336(Max)
Saves: Fort ? Reflex ? Will ?
Concentration 41 Heal 43 Spellcraft 41
Why so much CHA in the second build?
I'd suggest looking into an Elf CLC/WIZ/AA build, or possibly a 1/2 Elf CLC/Bard/AA. You could pump your WIS all the way, use Zen Archery, have a great AB and still have a good caster as well. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
charisma is good if making use of divine might. it will give your arrows some hard to resist damage.
also, as already mentioned, using bard to get arcane archer might not be a bad idea. you could still have 20+ cleric levels, which should be enough. the advantages of higher AB and great damage compensate for the +6 lost from EWS.
leveling depends on when you wanna get your healing spells.
just an idea.
-c _________________ "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
Quote: Posted 09/07/05 23:15:16 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Why so much CHA in the second build?
I'd suggest looking into an Elf CLC/WIZ/AA build, or possibly a 1/2 Elf CLC/Bard/AA. You could pump your WIS all the way, use Zen Archery, have a great AB and still have a good caster as well.
Woops, version 2 should have Divine Might at lvl 12 - it's a typo. Any ways, fully buffed it would add 13 divine damage per attack and last a little over a minute each use. Hence extra turning to make the feat useful.
I thought about the AA route, but since my AB is going to be based on Wis, I figured stick with ftr/clr and pump it as much as possible. I forgot Bard counts as an arcane caster so I will look into a clr/brd/AA build. If I can keep the BAB at 16+, I may have found my sweet spot.
Edited By Talamier on 09/07/05 23:42
Quote: Posted 09/07/05 23:41:27 (GMT) -- Talamier
Quote: Posted 09/07/05 23:15:16 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Why so much CHA in the second build?
I'd suggest looking into an Elf CLC/WIZ/AA build, or possibly a 1/2 Elf CLC/Bard/AA. You could pump your WIS all the way, use Zen Archery, have a great AB and still have a good caster as well.
Woops, version 2 should have Divine Might at lvl 12 - it's a typo. Any ways, fully buffed it would add 13 divine damage per attack and last a little over a minute each use. Hence extra turning to make the feat useful.
Ah, that makes perfect sense.
Quote: I thought about the AA route, but since my AB is going to be based on Wis, I figured stick with ftr/clr and pump it as much as possible.
With AA, it could still be based on WIS.
Quote: I forgot Bard counts as an arcane caster so I will look into a clr/brd/AA build. If I can keep the BAB at 16+, I may have found my sweet spot.
You could easily do that. Just take your CLC and Bard in multiples of 4 pre-epic and make sure to take 4 AA levels.
Conversely, you could also go with CLC 12/Bard 1/AA 7.
However, if you're comforatble relying on a spell for your AB, you could go with BAB of +15 or less and use Divine Power to get your 4th attack (at your highest AB, btw).
Just as an example, imagine a CLC 12/Bard 1/AA 7 build that has +16 BAB, so his attack schedule is +16/+11/+6/+1. (We'll forget about the factors that raise AB, as they'll be the same for both bulds in the comparison). He casts Divine Power and gets an attack routine of +20/+15/+10/+5.
Now, imagine a build such as CLC 15/Bard 1/AA 4. His attack schedule is +15/+10/+5. After casting Divine Power, he gets an extra attack, resulting in this attack schedule: +20/+15/+10/+20.
There's a definite advantage to having that lower BAB, but (as I mentioned) it relies on a spell, which you may not be comfortable doing. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 09/08/05 00:13
Darn Cin - know I know why you are the master. I was toying around with the AA/Clr/Wiz build. I was thinking: 1 - Wiz (With Elf will avoid exp penalty and get free longbow prof) 2-13 Clr 14-20 AA
This build is going to be based off the buffing spells of a cleric and I will have, at most times, Divine Favor, Divine Power, Aid, stat buffs, etc. on me. However, your 15/1/4 idea with Divine Power is most interesting. I guess it comes down to - do I want a non dispellable 4th attack. I am planning on having 6 attacks at all times with rapid shot and haste.
Thank you Cin - you have given me something to think about.
Edited By Talamier on 09/08/05 00:47
Ok, how does this look? Cleric of the Bow Elf Cleric(20) / Wizard(1) / Arcane Archer(19)
Str 13 Dex 13 Con 10 Int 10 Wis 18(32) Cha 8
Playable 1-40 PvM Alignment: <any> <any> Domains: Healing and Travel
(1) Wizard Point Blank Shot (2) Cleric (3) Cleric Zen Archery (4) Cleric (Wis) (5) Cleric (6) Cleric Weapon Focus - Longbow (7) Cleric (8) Cleric (Wis) (9) Cleric Extend Spell (10) Cleric (11) Cleric (12) Cleric Improved Critical - Longbow (Wis) (13) Cleric (14) AA (15) AA Empower Spell (16) AA (Wis) (17) AA (18) AA Rapid Shot (19) AA (20) AA (Wis) (21) Cleric Combat Casting (22) Cleric (23) AA (24) AA EWF - Longbow (Wis) (25) Cleric (26) Cleric (27) Cleric Toughness (28) Cleric (Wis) (29) Cleric (30) AA Great Wisdom (31) AA (32) AA (Wis) (33) AA Great Wisdom (34) AA Epic Prowess (35) AA (36) AA Great Wisdom (Wis) (37) AA (38) AA Improved Combat Casting (39) Cleric Great Wisdom (40) AA (Wis)
AB 51/46/41/36 (Mundane Longbow) Damage 1-8 + 10 19-20x3 BAB 26 Base AC 11 HP 356(Max)
Saves: Fort ? Reflex ? Will ?
Concentration 42 Heal 43 Spellcraft 42
I'm still unsure about some feats and no idea on skills yet. Once I roll it up on the novice to epic char maker I'll have a better idea. I assume the enchant from AA levels applies to AB and damage right? Whew...buffed this gal will never miss!
Yeah, the AA enchant arrow bonmus applies to both AB and damage.
You can't take WIZ as your first class, unless you're willing to invest in INT. The game will force you to take a minimum starting INT of 11. Start with CLC.
I'd also move Rapid Shot earlier into the build. If you get into point blank range and activate Rapid Shot, you get an extra attack per round and all your attacks are only at a -1 penalty to hit (easily compensated with the high WIS), as PBS gives you +1 to hit and damage at close range.
With this layout, your saves will be (vs spells):
Fort: 23 (31) Refl: 20 (28) Will: 33 (41)
I'd advise taking only 40 points in Spellcraft, as you get +1 bonus to your saves vs spells for every 5 modified ranks (and it's modified by INT), so the 2 extra points won't accomplish much.
I might also consider starting with 16 WIS and putting 2 points into CON, 2 into INT and one each into STR and DEX, so you'd start thus:
STR 14 DEX 14 CON 12 INT 12 WIS 16 CHA 8
This would net you 43 more skill points, which you could use to cross-class Tumble for 20 ranks and +4 to your AC. The extra point in DEX doesn't do much for you, but it evens it out and adds 1 to your Reflex save. CON at 12 means 40 more HPs and an extra +1 to your Fort save. You'd lose 1 on your Will save and 1 on your AB.
Are you planning on being basically a buffing Cleric with ranged combat capabilities, or did you plan on lobbing spells for offense as well? If the latter, then I'd recommend taking at least 6 more CLC levels, possibly sacrificing 6 AA. Then pick up the Spell Penetration feats. That way you can beat the highest stnadard SR in the game. (You may not be able to beat any custom SR monsters, but you'll beat the default settings). I'd also perhaps keep the 18 WIS at the start. If the former, I'd probably go with the 16 WIS start.
Your feats look pretty good to me. I'd recommend looking into the Trickery domain, unless you won't have access to Haste items, in which case Travel may be better. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Yes, I am planning more of an Archer with Cleric as support. Buffs, heals, res, etc. I wasn't planning on my spells hitting much post 20. I stayed with 13dex since I'll be wearing heavy armor and that only allows a +1 bonus but your stat allocation makes more sense. I do need 13 dex for rapid shot.
The PW I play on is medium magic and has no permanent haste items so I took travel for that reason. Heal is to give me more healing spells. I think it turned out quite well. Thanks for all the help!
Cleric of the Bow Elf Cleric(20) / Wizard(1) / Arcane Archer(19)
Str 14 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 16(30) Cha 8
Playable 1-40 PvM Alignment: <any> <any> Domains: Healing and Travel
(1) Cleric Point Blank Shot (2) Wizard (3) Cleric Zen Archery (4) Cleric (Wis) (5) Cleric (6) Cleric Rapid Shot (7) Cleric (8) Cleric (Wis) (9) Cleric Extend Spell (10) Cleric (11) Cleric (12) Cleric Weapon Focus - Longbow (Wis) (13) Cleric (14) AA (15) AA Improved Critical - Longbow (16) AA (Wis) (17) AA (18) AA Empower Spell (19) AA (20) AA (Wis) (21) Cleric Combat Casting (22) Cleric (23) AA (24) AA EWF - Longbow (Wis) (25) Cleric (26) Cleric (27) Cleric Toughness (28) Cleric (Wis) (29) Cleric (30) AA Great Wisdom (31) AA (32) AA (Wis) (33) AA Great Wisdom (34) AA Improved Combat Casting (35) AA (36) AA Great Wisdom (Wis) (37) Cleric (38) AA (39) AA Great Wisdom, Epic Prowess (40) AA (Wis)
AB 50/45/40/35 (Mundane Longbow) Damage 1-8 + 10 19-20x3 BAB 26 Base AC 16 HP 396(Max)
Saves: Fort 23 (+8 vs Spells) Reflex 20 (+8 vs Spells) Will 33 (+8 vs Spells)
Concentration 40 Heal 43 Spellcraft 40 Tumble 20
Edited By Talamier on 09/08/05 03:08
Another option would be to go with Cleric 20/ Monk 6/ CoT 14. I did not do a full build, but you can pump your wisdom to about 36 with the CoT feats in epic. You get more bonus spells, you have a naked AC of 34 which can be increased with empowered owls. You get some monk speed and are a little better in close combat. You also have more feats to play with and good saves.
However, the AB goes down to 43 unbuffed, which is not bad, but still does not compare to an AA build. This approach is a little more versatile at the cost of less effectivness with the bow. Choices...choices...
charisma is good if making use of divine might. it will give your arrows some hard to resist damage.
I was toying around with the AA/Clr/Wiz build. I was thinking: