Alright, so I decided to make a Sorcerer26/BG3/Monk1. Mostly because I refuse to play the lawful good exalted sorceress. Anyways, I need some advice on feats. I worked out a few things, but I am unsure whether it is better to have greater and epic spell penetrations or 2 extra Great Charisma. I came to the conclusion that spell penetration was a better choice than taking combat casting/improved combat casting because of Defensive Casting Mode. My feats look like this:

Extend,Empower,Maximize,Still,Spell Penetration, SF:Necromancy, GSF:Necromancy, Power Attack (for Divine Shield requirement), Toughness, Epic Mage Armor, Epic Warding, Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy, Divine Shield, Autostill 1-3, Great Charisma 1-2, Greater Spell Penetration and Epic Spell Penetration.

If I took out Greater Penetration and Epic Penetration I could get an extra spell and probably +1 spell DC, I think. Also I would get an extra +1 armor when divine shield is on. However, I would lose a great deal of spell penetration as a consequence. Right now he has 28 Charisma. Should I take the two penetration feats or drop them for two more Great Charisma for a total of 30 Charisma? And if I drop them should I go ahead and keep the pre-epic version of spell penetration, as I don't think there is anything else of worth to put in its place?

Edited By OMGZERGRUSHWTF on 09/17/05 06:07

Also, here are my level 1 ability scores, are these good?:

14Str
8Dex
16Con
8Wis
12Int
16Charisma Are you playing in an environment where you'll be running into mobs with custom SR? If so, then go for the Spell Pen feats.

Is autofail on 1 turned off? If not, go for the Spell Pen feats.

Will you be running into mobs when your SOR is lower levels that have high SR? If so, go for the Spell Pen feats (but take them early).

If you're up against the default monsters, then the highest SR you'll possibly encounter is 32, so the Spell Pen feats won't be necessary unless you'll be meeting a lot of mobs with high SR when your character is lower level. Also, if autofail on 1 is turned on, you can spam save-allowing spells until they roll a one, so you won't have a dire need of the extra +1 on your spell DC.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! Well, the server I play on is kind of a mixed PvP/PvM. Thing about it is that I get +1 armor (divine shield), +1 DC and an additional spell slot for taking the two Great Cha feats. I also noticed the exalted sorceress build didn't bother with epic penetration, so I don't know how useful it is. Would the additional spell penetrations be as useful as the charisma feats in PvP or just PvM vs monsters with high SR? Also, the server I play on has failure on 1, I think, but unless I am mistaken the chance of someone actually rolling a 1 is only like 5%. I know the server I play on has lots of powerful DM customized monsters, but I don't know if they went crazy with the SR or whatever.

Edited By OMGZERGRUSHWTF on 09/17/05 21:11

Quote: Posted 09/17/05 20:50:47 (GMT) -- OMGZERGRUSHWTF

Well, the server I play on is kind of a mixed PvP/PvM. Thing about it is that I get +1 armor (divine shield), +1 DC and an additional spell slot for taking the two Great Cha feats. I also noticed the exalted sorceress build didn't bother with epic penetration, so I don't know how useful it is. Would the additional spell penetrations be as useful as the charisma feats in PvP or just PvM vs monsters with high SR? Also, the server I play on has failure on 1, I think, but unless I am mistaken the chance of someone actually rolling a 1 is only like 5%. I know the server I play on has lots of powerful DM customized monsters, but I don't know if they went crazy with the SR or whatever.

The only SR you need to worry about in PvP is a high level Monk. Your caster will have a 1d20 + 36 chance to beat their spell resistance. There are a couple classes that can get the Spell Resistance spell (CLC and Druid, IIRC), but you should be able to Mord's them and get rid of it. Basically, your roll to beat SR is going to be (on average) 46 or 47. That should be sufficient.

Builds with a lot of Monk levels will be tough, as their SR is Monk level + 10 and you can't lower it with Mord's.

The chance of rolling a 1 is only 5%, but you'd be amazed at how often that will happen if you start spamming save-or-die spells.

If it were me, I wouldn't bother with the Spell Pen feats. The way I look at it, if 36 caster levels aren't enough to get through, then a couple more points isn't going to help. I'd rather have the +1 DS, +1 DC, and the extra spells.

Take my advice with a grain of salt though, as I don't do PvP.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! Alright, thanks Cinnabar. I think my pre-epic feats go about one level into the epics so I could replace the +2 first spell penetration feat with something else, I think. Should I put it in armor skin or skill focus: discipline or is there something else I should consider?
Also, what does "+1 DS" stand for? Won't let me edit but that should say "epic skill focus discipline".
Quote: Posted 09/18/05 16:23:40 (GMT) -- OMGZERGRUSHWTF

Alright, thanks Cinnabar. I think my pre-epic feats go about one level into the epics so I could replace the +2 first spell penetration feat with something else, I think. Should I put it in armor skin or skill focus: discipline or is there something else I should consider?
Also, what does "+1 DS" stand for?

+1 DS = +1 on your Divine Shield.

How high is your AC going to be? If it's higher than your Discipline skill + 20 (ESF:Discipline included), then you won't need the ESF feat. Since your opponent has to hit you to knock you down, if your AC is higher than your Discipline check, your Discipline will never come into play.

Just to clarify: let's assume your Discipline skill is 53 (including ESF:Discipline) and your AC is 74.

The only way anyone is going to hit you is with a roll of 74 or better, which would be the DC of the skill check. Your best roll on the skill check would give you a 73 score - not good enough to beat the roll of 74+. Therefore, Discipline would be completely surperfluous to your character. If your AC is less than Dsicipline + 20, then you may get use out of the skill.

I'm not sure how the game handles the autohit on 20 scenario though, so this advice may be suspect...
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! If I took ESF:Discipline my AC would be like 74 and my discipline would be 55 (43+2str+10ESF). Still pretty useless, I mean, the only way I could save against knockdown if they rolled higher than 74 would be by like 1 point, and if they are hitting that hard the check against KD would probably be much higher. Then again if they hit me unbuffed or roll a natural 20 then I think discipline still comes into play. So should I keep points in discipline at all? I mean, it would still help against people who hit me via rolling natural 20s or hitting me unbuffed.

Anyways, if its not going to be very useful should I put that feat into something like armor skin or maybe even hellball? Not sure which would be better in that case. Edit: Hellball does 15d6 acid/fire/electric/fire/sonic/physical on the server I play on. Hard call on the Discipline. If a natural 20 will KD you as well, then it may be worth taking. On the other hand, if you're in melee and they knock you down, you should have already put your reciprocal damage shields up (Mestil's, Elemental Shield, Death Armor), so they're going to take a big hit by beating on you anyway.

As for Hellball, it sounds great on paper, but oddly, I've never found it to do as well as it seems it would. However, the KD effect from it can be pretty handy.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! Thanks . But when you speak of discipline are you speaking of ESF:Discipline the feat or the idea of putting points in discipline in general. And what do you think of taking armor skin instead of either ESF:Dis or Hellball? Is it better than either of them? Oh, and after that, last question: Should I go for 16 cha 8 dex or 12 dex 14 charisma instead? Or something else. Anyways, you have been a big help, thanks so much
Quote: Posted 09/19/05 19:30:32 (GMT) -- OMGZERGRUSHWTF

Oh, and after that, last question: Should I go for 16 cha 8 dex or 12 dex 14 charisma instead? Or something else. Anyways, you have been a big help, thanks so much

As to the Discipline question, I was speaking of the skill in general.

I'd start with 16 CHA and 8 DEX (or 10 DEX and 15 CHA).

Hope my advice turns out to be useful!
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! Sorry I didn't mean charisma, I meant constitution. 16 con 8 dex or 14 con 12 dex? Sorry about that. Thing is I think fully buffed I will probably be maxing out my dodge bonus. I mean, +10 (or higher with items) divine shield and then haste and epic mage armor after that is well above 20. So I think con probably unless there is something I am forgetting.

Edited By OMGZERGRUSHWTF on 09/19/05 20:49

Well, I always have a high CON on my spellchuckers (16 if at all possible).

However, if you're playing in an environment where AC is extremely important, the 2 extra you get from 12 DEX as opposed to 8 DEX is probably worth it. (the AC you get from DEX doesn't count towards the Dodge cap, nor does the AC boost from Tumble ranks).
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! I think I may have pushed him a little further, now with the right sort of items and the correct buffs, he can jump from 56 ac to 74 AC. Instead of taking the Epic Mage Armor and having an extra feat, I go for two more Great Charismas for a total of 6 feats of it. This brings my charisma to 32. I keep my constitution at 16 and dex at 8. I go for +5 con boots instead of the sun soul + 5 boots. I then cast the following buffs: max eagle splendor, max cats grace and max endurance. This brings my dex to 13 for full ac bonus, my charisma to a ridiculous 42 for +16 DS for 16 rounds and my constitution to an impressive 26. I then cast divine shield, bringing my armor up to 74. What do you think of this? The only weakness I see is that he has only AC 56 when he isn't buffed up.

Edited By OMGZERGRUSHWTF on 09/20/05 04:41