I was wanting to add some other classes to the build, example monk 20 sd 20, but I wanted to find out first if it would just be better to build a pure monk. Ty for your time.
Quote: Posted 11/04/05 15:51:11 (GMT) -- Rileigh

I was wanting to add some other classes to the build, example monk 20 sd 20, but I wanted to find out first if it would just be better to build a pure monk. Ty for your time.

Monk is a very strong class but it isn't easy to make a really good one (a good monk build among monks).

Their problem comes from AB/Damage:

If you make an str-based monk your AB and damage will be decent, but your AC will stink, as long as you should not use any armor nor shield, you will die very fast.

If you make a dex-based monk your AB can be decent, but your damage output will be low (even with the d20 fists from medium sized monk, it can take you weeks to take down a dwarven defender or anything with decent damage reduction) and you have no uncanny dodge, so try to avoid getting caugh flat-footed or you will die fast.

Some people tends to make wisdom based monks, I am not sure if wisdom AC is retained if flat-footed (some say it is). But wisdom doesn't help your AB, only your AC and your quivering palm attack. You could make up the AB by making a monk with sling or bow (better a bow, as long as they do more damage and you don't need a free hand for a shield. But you will only have 3 base attacks/round because your BAB progression.

I like how monk synergizes with rogue or assassin giving them more attacks per round in order to score more attacks per round, access to discipline skill, extra speed and a chance to raise their AC with wisdom. Don't forget monk also has hide, move silently and tumble as class skills.

Pro: They can have a high AC, they have the best attack progression and lots of nice feats for free apart of lots of resistances and the always useful monk speed. Plus they can become inmune to magic if they invest enough into it.

Cons: They are cheesy , they will lose AC if flatfooted or if they dont multiclass with: 2Assassin OR 2Barbarian (align conflict) OR 3Rogue OR 2Shadowdancer. Their damage output is situational (if multiclassed with rogue or assassin) or very low (if going dex monk).

That's what I think about the class.
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RANDOM: Ni! Thanks, this information helped out a bunch. I was considering putting the monk build with SD. If I am correct it comes with uncanny dodge, plus the Epic shadowlord boosts your combat skills. Or u could always combine monk with sorcerer and RDD. The boost in str would help out the ab, but it still leaves you with the fact that if you get caught flat footed your in deep crap. Since Wisdom counts towards ac, I was thinking about building a more wisdome based monk than a dex. This still makes the monk harder to hit correct? I read somewhere that monks can receive epic dodge, is that correct? The reason why I love epic dodge so much is because it keeps you alive longer while fighting ubers. I think I'll use monk, fighter and blackguard. 20 monk so you can get perfect health, blackguard for sneak attack, and fighter for extra feats. Should I exchange the fighter class for another.
Quote: Posted 11/04/05 17:25:47 (GMT) -- Rileigh
I read somewhere that monks can receive epic dodge, is that correct? The reason why I love epic dodge so much is because it keeps you alive longer while fighting ubers. I think I'll use monk, fighter and blackguard. 20 monk so you can get perfect health, blackguard for sneak attack, and fighter for extra feats. Should I exchange the fighter class for another.

Pure monks can't get epic dodge. They get Improved evasion (at level 9) and have tumble as a class skill, but they cant get deffensive roll.

5 SD levels can help a monk getting the pre-requisites for epic dodge.
10 Rogue levels too (if you get deffensive roll as the rogue level 10 bonus feat).

If you want a fighter/monk/<something with sneak attack> I would go fighter/monk/rogue or fighter/monk/assassin (to avoid the xp penalty).

Even monk/blackguard/assassin for the 16BAB at level 20 and lots of sneak attack damage

Monk9+/assassin26-/shadowdancer5 for getting both epic dodge and high (death)sneak attack without xp penalty.

You could also go monk/cleric/shadowdancer, trying to get at least 25 dex for epic dodge and putting a lot into cleric for buffs and AC.

There are lots of possibilities, .
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HEAD KNIGHT: Shh shh. We are now the Knights Who Say Ekke ekke ekke ptang zoo boing!
RANDOM: Ni! Generally speaking, monk levels are great up to level 20 but then start to suffer from diminishing returns.

Up to level 20 you keep getting improvements in class feats and innate abilities. After level 20 you get the slowest bonus feat progression in the game and only a few of your powers get any better, whereas you really start to suffer from having low damage and mediocre AB, and from not having uncanny dodge.

Over level 20 monks continue to improve in spell resistance, run-speed, quivering palm save DC, and innate AC bonus, but they only gain a bonus feat every 5th level and would benefit more from at least a little modest multiclassing in almost every case.

Monk 35/Shadowdancer 5 for example, would have uncanny dodge and could get epic dodge.

Very popular and effective melee monk builds are monk 20/rogue 19/SD 1, or monk 21/rogue 13/fighter 6.
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Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience. "Very popular and effective melee monk builds are monk 20/rogue 19/SD 1, or monk 21/rogue 13/fighter 6."

What is the point of 1 SD when u can get what u need with the 19 rogue? Wouldn't it be better to replace it with something else? Would 20 monk, sd, and weapons master turn out to be a good build? I wonder if the 2 Ki dmg froma level 7 weaponsmaster would stack with monks unarmed ki 3?

Ingame someone told me that I could live with epic dodge. Maybe I should

Edited By Rileigh on 11/04/05 19:17

Quote: Posted 11/04/05 19:15:37 (GMT) -- Rileigh

Would 20 monk, sd, and weapons master turn out to be a good build? I wonder if the 2 Ki dmg froma level 7 weaponsmaster would stack with monks unarmed ki 3?

Ingame someone told me that I could live with epic dodge. Maybe I should

a bit blurry here......
WM can't be combined with unarmed feats. You can go Kama though. That ki thing is??? WM's KI damage makes you roll max with weapons, that is always an 8 with a longsword f.ex. A monks ki strike is used to overcome DR... They aren't even related.

As for 1 SD level in the monk rogue build.... YOU GET HipS!!!!

Epic dodge will save your hide. Putting fighter in might give you EWS to increase damage output. Pure monk? Well sr is nice. Not much else. A load of stunning fists tho. There are dozens of viable builds that use monk. If you want to play a sneaker, it is the only effective way to play a sneaker that I know of that doesn't involve SD, and you can use fighter levels and ranger levels for both epic weapon specilization and bane if you want a heavy damage dexer with full pre-epic ab. I tested it out not long ago, and against favoured enemies the physical damage alone was 20+ which is just as good if not better than many other str based builds, especially when combined with monk attacks.

The most "pure" monk build I know of that works well though would be monk 35/fighter 4/ranger 1, which comes with enough epic feats for stunning fist X for a dc of 60+, epic disc, epic prowess/weapon focus and armour skin. I find monk tends to be a min/max thing. Either go for maximum to get the high SR (monk 40, monk 35/fighter 5, monk 35/SD 5, monk 30/Rogue 10), or just take the minimum number of monk levels to get the abilities you want (1 for kama AB progression, evasion, cleave, and Wis AC, 6 for IKD, 9 for imp. evasion, 16 for unarmed damage, 18 for Empty body). I find 6 on a righter/rogue type (I include variations like blackguard/assassin in that category) to be very good if you like sneaky types.

TM