Ah...more pure builds...nice one Ok.. it seems not only ShayneP is building pure builds Hmm ..I think its time to give them their own index, (After next update) you never know..we may even end up with a full set.
A few of each to allow for.. (low,med,high magic worlds) (strength based,dex based,.. races, etc,etc) ø¤º°~ griphook ~°º¤ø
Maximum prestige class 10/30 level split….. WHY ? Tattoed Monk explains…..
Quote: Certainly the "pure" builds are not most representative - how many pure base classes do actually see played for real(with the possible exception of Wiz or Sorc)? There are too many advantages to multiclassing. This isn't to make the "best" builds, but to see what can be done with no multiclassing for base classes and minimal multiclassing for PrC classes. It's just for fun, not to claim that such builds are the best. Even the base classes benefit so much from a few levels of something else that they are rarely done pure.
It's also to do something different - yes, the "Max CoT" build would be better with 4 fighter levels, but how many builds are already out there with 4 fighter levels followed by a bunch of CoT? A ton. For good reason, you get a lot of benefit from those 4 levels. But the idea here is to see how much you can get from each class while using the fewest classes possible. That's pure for base classes, 10/30 for PrC's. Nobody is claiming that they are the best builds, just the best with that criteria.
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~Barbarian ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
coreyb
The Orcish Savage /Half-Orc/ Str Based/ Great Axe/ Terr Rage/ Imp Crit/ EDR 1-3
I…Samphus
Deafening Dwarven Berserker /Dwarf /Str Based /Morning Star /Mighty,Thun Rage / EDR 1-3
Nukenin
Thundering Terror /Str Based/ Dwarf /Mundane Weapon/ EDR 1-3
For Basic Classes this should be no problem, but how do you define Pure for Prestige Classes, when you can only take a max of 30? and only 5 for Harper Scout?
Any parameters for this?
Apart the fact that some PrCs have little purpouse taken all the way to lvl 30, there's anyhow more than 1 way to fill the remaining 10 lvls with 1-2 other classes (among which there could be another prestige class, f.e. FTR 6/CoT 4/WM 30).
Even if by pure PrCs builds we mean builds where you take all the 30 allowed lvls of that PrC, the spectrum of possible builds widens with respect to basic classes. Especially HS "pure" builds.
Well, since the theme is "pure" anyway, we could say that a "pure" PrC build must have 10 levels of a single base class, and 30 levels of the prestige class. That will cut down the number of possible combinations a bit. SO, Fighter 10/WM 30, Fighter 10/DwD 30, Bard 10/RDD 30, Rogue 10/SD 30, etc.
For Basic Classes this should be no problem, but how do you define Pure for Prestige Classes, when you can only take a max of 30? and only 5 for Harper Scout?
Any parameters for this?
My plan for PrC builds was to have 10 base / 30 prestige wherever possible. The idea of "pure" is a bit subjective for Prestige Classes, but my idea was to have as few levels in as few extra classes as possible.
To paraphrase GhostNWN, pure builds should have as little "cheese" as possible. In Kail's example above, is the CoT cheese, or could it be replaced with all fighter levels? I say cheese, what does everyone else say?
Edit 1: Tattooed Monk posted while I was composing! Basically "what he said". _________________ Pure Class Builds
Edited By ShayneP on 01/23/06 14:40
Quote: Posted 01/23/06 14:38:25 (GMT) -- ShayneP
To paraphrase GhostNWN, pure builds should have as little "cheese" as possible. In Kail's example above, is the CoT cheese, or could it be replaced with all fighter levels? I say cheese, what does everyone else say?
Sounds like an arbitrary standard to me. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: My plan for PrC builds was to have 10 base / 30 prestige wherever possible. The idea of "pure" is a bit subjective for Prestige Classes, but my idea was to have as few levels in as few extra classes as possible.
To paraphrase GhostNWN, pure builds should have as little "cheese" as possible. In Kail's example above, is the CoT cheese, or could it be replaced with all fighter levels? I say cheese, what does everyone else say?
Edit 1: Tattooed Monk posted while I was composing! Basically "what he said".
Cheese is veeery subjective but indeed I'm known to love cheese
Put this way the spectrum of possible builds becomes definitely narrower but there's still more than one way to qualify for some PrC, f.e. FTR 10/DwD 30 or Rogue 10/DwD 30, Sorc or Bard 10/ RDD 30, Monk or Bard or Rogue or Ranger 10/ Assassin 30 and so on. "Pure" PrCs builds have a low degree of purity overall ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****
Nee Nah, Nee Nah, Ne Nah .."Quote Police"
Bad Boy, Bad Boy, What'cha Gonna Do, ...What'cha Gonna Do, When They Come For You
griphook ..Removed part of quote not needed _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vincerò Vincerò Vincerò
Edited By griphook on 01/30/06 12:29
Quote: Posted 01/24/06 19:30:29 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon Put this way the spectrum of possible builds becomes definitely narrower but there's still more than one way to qualify for some PrC, f.e. FTR 10/DwD 30 or Rogue 10/DwD 30, Sorc or Bard 10/ RDD 30, Monk or Bard or Rogue or Ranger 10/ Assassin 30 and so on. "Pure" PrCs builds have a low degree of purity overall
True, but since you can't start as a PrC, 10/30 is the closest they can come to "pure". So it's either that, or just exclude them altogether. Perhaps call them "Purest" PrC builds, rather than "Pure".
TM
Lol, or you can refer to them as Maximum Class builds, since you want to use the Max amount of the PrC you can in the builds _________________ If everyone is thinking alike, then someone is failing to think.
Lol, or you can refer to them as Maximum Class builds, since you want to use the Max amount of the PrC you can in the builds
Pure, purest, maximum or whatever.....
In my opinion the idea of all this must be to look at what can be done with a class, it's possibilities and limitations. To find out what typical characters you get when you capture the essence of a single class. I think the word is "iconic" builds. It goes without saying that it is easiest to do this with the basic classes. The prestige classes on the other hand have that in common that they cannot be pure. You have to multiclass to get them. So how capture the essence of a prestige class? How do we make iconic prestige class builds? I am not convinced that you do that by making a build with 30 levels of the prestige class in question. And I am not convinced that the build becomes less iconic if you use more than one other class. Fighter/wizard/arcane archer can serve as an example here of a build that has 3 classes and still can have iconic features. And if you want to "max" the AA class, the typical thing to do is to take 29 lvls af it, not 30. Likewise with a shifter build, the typical thing is to only take enough levels to get all forms. With RDD the typical thing is to take 10 lvls for the bonuses and immunities.
My point is that the so called "pure" or "maximum" 10/30 prestige class builds not necessarily are the most representative or iconic builds if your goal is to capture the essence of the class. ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****
Nee Nah, Nee Nah, Ne Nah .."Quote Police"
Bad Boy, Bad Boy, What'cha Gonna Do, ...What'cha Gonna Do, When They Come For You
griphook ..Removed part of quote not needed _________________ I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it...
Edited By griphook on 01/30/06 12:30
Well said _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vincerò Vincerò Vincerò
Quote: Posted 01/26/06 11:44:33 (GMT) -- Mick Dagger Fighter/wizard/arcane archer can serve as an example here of a build that has 3 classes and still can have iconic features. And if you want to "max" the AA class, the typical thing to do is to take 29 lvls af it, not 30. Likewise with a shifter build, the typical thing is to only take enough levels to get all forms. With RDD the typical thing is to take 10 lvls for the bonuses and immunities.
My point is that the so called "pure" or "maximum" 10/30 prestige class builds not necessarily are the most representative or iconic builds if your goal is to capture the essence of the class.
Certainly the "pure" builds are not most representative - how many pure base classes do actually see played for real(with the possible exception of Wiz or Sorc)? There are too many advantages to multiclassing. This isn't to make the "best" builds, but to see what can be done with no multiclassing for base classes and minimal multiclassing for PrC classes. It's just for fun, not to claim that such builds are the best. Even the base classes benefit so much from a few levels of something else that they are rarely done pure.
It's also to do something different - yes, the "Max CoT" build would be better with 4 fighter levels, but how many builds are already out there with 4 fighter levels followed by a bunch of CoT? A ton. For good reason, you get a lot of benefit from those 4 levels. But the idea here is to see how much you can get from each class while using the fewest classes possible. That's pure for base classes, 10/30 for PrC's. Nobody is claiming that they are the best builds, just the best with that criteria.
TM
At the moment it would just be nice to have a full set of "pure" lvl 40 base class builds. Believe it or not..There are a hell of a lot of people out there wanting to play pure builds, Or.. for that matter "only play" pure builds and no, not just wizards/sorcerers i've had PM's covering all lvl 40 base class builds
I think it would be nice to have a full set. As it says in my quote at the top of the topic
A few of each to allow for..low, med, high magic worlds (please state in build when posting) strength, dex, cha based etc,.. Armed, unarmed, dual weapon, Different domains, Spell schools etc. races, etc,etc
As for prestige classes, "Mick" states a good point. "TM" also states another good point..
Quote: But the idea here is to see how much you can get from each class while using the fewest classes possible. That's pure for base classes, 10/30 for PrC's. Nobody is claiming that they are the best builds, just the best with that criteria.
I have no problem with that.
griphook
Edited By griphook on 02/03/06 20:14
im 100% for pure builds, especially Rogues or Barbarians.
Keep it up!!!!
Yup ..That looks ok
I was thinking of deleting all posts, Start off with a clean sheet (so to speak) everyone ok with that ?
Edited By griphook on 02/01/06 00:00
Here's something I was considering reading this: looking at the requisite feats for some classes, I wonder if its as easy as 10/30 for prcs. What about weapon master? I know its done as a strength based, but the feats you MUST take suggest something else.. a dexer! Then its not so simple as 10/30 cuz a dexer fighter, could be better suggested by a rogue, which needs 12 lvls human or 15 lvls non-human to get to whirlwind to qualify for wm! Then the lvl split is 15/25! (id suggest non-human so you can qual for epic dodge too! LOL). So who's to say that a non-human wm must have 10/30 when it can realistically be looked at from this perspective.
Oh, and someone mentioned Harper scout. THere's a class! TO be considered "pure" wouldnt you take 35/5? I suggest this because from my limited understanding of harper scouts, arent they sorta like a High counsil" type, then that would suggest, for example a lv35 paladin taking the last 5 lvls as harper as a priviledge or somethin like that.
I make these 2 suggestions because I feel we are all so focused on 10/30 for prcs that we sometimes miss out on other valid interpretations. And to limit our idea of ftr/wm as the ONLY interpretation is sad, when wm offers so much more to classes other than fighter.
Well, since the theme is "pure" anyway, we could say that a "pure" PrC build must have 10 levels of a single base class, and 30 levels of the prestige class.
The guideline I suggested for a "pure party" on the PW I play on is that a "pure prestige character" has a single base class, a single prestige class, and as many levels in the prestige class as possible (given the requirements). Most of the time this comes down to a 10/30 split, but it also allows, for example, 35/5 for harper scouts, 12/28 for arcane archers with a sorcerer or wizard base, and 15/25 for non-human weapon masters with a base other than fighter.
This approach just seems to me to be more in line with the idea that prestige classes must be earned, and some are harder to qualify for than others. This still requires devotion to the prestige class, but allows different starting points.
Anyway, just my thoughts. I know this is late to the party, but I only came to poke around here recently. (In fact, the reason I stopped by at all was that someone suggested I post a pure character I've been playing -- which I will get to soon.) _________________ Sorry. We're closed. Cheers.
Quote: Posted 01/12/08 21:24 (GMT) -- The_Krit
The guideline I suggested for a "pure party" on the PW I play on is that a "pure prestige character" has a single base class, a single prestige class, and as many levels in the prestige class as possible (given the requirements). Most of the time this comes down to a 10/30 split, but it also allows, for example, 35/5 for harper scouts, 12/28 for arcane archers with a sorcerer or wizard base, and 15/25 for non-human weapon masters with a base other than fighter.
This approach just seems to me to be more in line with the idea that prestige classes must be earned, and some are harder to qualify for than others. This still requires devotion to the prestige class, but allows different starting points.
And yet there are holes in that idea too. Suppose I wanted a max Assassin. By choosing wizard I'd have the 13wiz/27SD split, which works well as intelligence helps both classes. But say I chose wiz/SD. Then the split would be 17wiz/23SD giving me level 9 spells. Yet the development of wizard has absolutely nothing related to the improvement of SD, the mere fact that the skills don't synergize gave the benefit of diluting the shadowdancer while still calling it pure by your terms.
In fact it is generally true that the less your base class is like a prestige class the longer it takes to qualify for that class using just your base class. 17wiz/23SD is not iconic of Shadowdancer. Rogue 13/SD27 is even more demonstrative of SD and yet this one isn't max SD.
Quote: Posted 10/10/08 17:49 (GMT) -- WhiZard
Suppose I wanted a max Assassin. By choosing wizard I'd have the 13wiz/27[Assassin] split, which works well as intelligence helps both classes. But say I chose wiz/SD. Then the split would be 17wiz/23SD giving me level 9 spells.
I have no problem with calling both of these "pure" builds.
Quote: 17wiz/23SD is not iconic of Shadowdancer. Rogue 13/SD27 is even more demonstrative of SD and yet this one isn't max SD.
"Iconic" is not how I described my guideline. That was a term used by Mick Dagger, and it was not accepted by everyone here. It is certainly not supposed to apply to what I suggested, nor to what I would be looking for in a "pure" build. _________________ Sorry. We're closed. Cheers.
