I have struggled with this question a lot, trying to find which is more powerful. I typically use a Greatsword for a two handed weapon and I katanas for both of the dual weapons. Can anyone explain to me the best way to find out which would cause more damage?
Quote: Posted 07/03/06 18:41:04 (GMT) -- MykBaker
Can anyone explain to me the best way to find out which would cause more damage?
Yeah, a calculator. Give me your exact build etc. and we can calculate it together. _________________ "We keep our Feast of Feasts, sure of our bourne, Our aims self-same: The Guest of Guests, friend Zarathustra, came! The world now laughs, the grisly veil was torn, And Light and Dark were one that wedding-morn."
Quote: Yeah, a calculator
Well, actually it depends on the setting IMO.
If you need a high AB to hit your opponent, two weapon will deal more since the offhand gets a -2 penalty for 2 hits at high AB rating (because AB decreases in the round) so if you need high ABs two handed will pretty much hit 2 when two weapons hit 4, as another option, if the enemies have no AC all your two handed powerful hits will land and it could be good, alhough I think that's somewhat even.
The real big difference comes when fighting DRs, simply as, two weapons may actually deal more (IMO two weapons deal much more, but you need 3 feats plus pre-requisites for it), but two weapons might not pierce a strong DR (because the offhand is even weaker than the mainhand, and the 3 feats and 15 DEX for Ambidexterity might get to lower your STR, although that's not necessarily true) where a two handed weapon will beat it easily (in comparison at least), at the very least, the ofhand damage gets lost versus strong DRs, and that's the biggest difference.
Another big difference comes into magical weapons or buffs, two handed weapons get the 1.5 STR modifier bonus, but magical addition do not multiply, so two weapons will take more advantage of high magical weapons or strong buffs such as Darkfire because you get more APR with good AB rating where to sum the magical addition.
Quote: I have struggled with this question a lot, trying to find which is more powerful. I typically use a Greatsword for a two handed weapon and I katanas for both of the dual weapons. Can anyone explain to me the best way to find out which would cause more damage?
Use double weapons for wielding two weapons, it's easier and better or equal at the very least (unless you're monk, then use kamas), two katanas is actually pretty bad, since you need a short weapon offhand or you lose AB and a katana is not short. Validly, two different weapons can get two different attributes, but for ideal strong weapons, a double weapon will add all magical properties to both hands, which is easier and most often than not, stronger.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 07/03/06 21:14
Thanks for the info Thaxll'ssyllia. I'll use double weapons from now on to get my desired balance.
Another advantage with two weapons is the ability to equipe weapons with different Elemental Damage properties. One Cold and one Acid dagger for instance. It may not seem like a big advantage, but when you face a foe with Energy Immunities, it may make a big difference to have more flexibility.
You are most likely going to pre-buff your weapons before combat. Avoiding a weapon swap during your travels is always nice.
Two small weapons. You can switch to shields when you need AC. If you have much damage that doesn't come from STR like Bane of Enemies or sneak attacks, dual is better than 2-hander. _________________ I see the fear you have inside, you can run but never hide. I will hunt you down and tear you limb from limb.
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Think of the feats! Gah!
Well, I think for most purposes, Duel-Wielding is better. But thats why it costs you three feats. If you can spare the feats, either with Fighter or CoT levels, or Ranger, then go for it. But something like a Bard/RDD/Weapon Master or a Paladin/CoT who needs his feats to Smite, will be better off with a Shield and a Weapon, or a Two Handed weapon due to them being massive damage dealers. Plus, they are feat starved.
Depends on the build and what it is you are sacrificing in order to be able to use two weapons.
Dual wielding looks cooler, case closed.
But nah, everybody have answerred the question already...
I still think we should go through this with the calculator as Finn suggested to make things more clear.
I'll give a couple of examples:
Happy Joe is a lvl 40 fighter with Str 30. He has WF and EWF in Greatsword, Katana and Two bladed sword as well as Epic Prowess. He also has TWF,ITW;Ambidexterity and EWS in all three weapon types. (These weapons all have the same crit threat range and multiplier, so I won't calculate that in here)
His AB with mundane weapons will be: Greatsword: 44/39/34/29, with average 37,5 2 Katanas: 40/35/30/25/40/35, with average 34,16 Two bladed sword: 42/37/32/27/42/37, with average 36,16 Damage with mundane weapons (hit on every attack): Greatsword: 2d6+15+6=23-33 per hit. 92-132 per round. 2 Katanas: 1d10+10+6=17-26 per hit main hand. 1d10+5+6=12-21 offhand. 92-146 per round. Two bladed sword: 1d8+10+6=17-24 per hit main hand. 1d8+5+6=12-19 offhand. 92-134 per round.
Raging John is a lvl 40 Barbarian with Str 30. He has the appropriate WF, EWF, EP and all 3 TWF related feats.
When he rages his Str is 36 adding +3 to his AB that otherwise is just like Happy Joe's. Damage (raging) will be: Greatsword: 2d6+19=21-31 per hit. 84-124 per round 2 Katanas: 1d10+11=12-21 per hit main hand. 1d10+5=6-15 per hit offhand. 60-114 per round. Two bladed sword:1d8+11=12-19 per hit main hand. 1d8+5=6-13 per hit offhand. 60-102 per round.
When the AC is extremely low so every hit lands and when AC is so high that you only hit on a 20, you can compare the damage like I have done above. In the mid range between these extremes, the Greatsword will hit more consistantly because of a better max AB and average AB.
Dualwielding will become better whenever damage is added to each hit like with weapon specialization (Happy Joe above)and with added weapon enhancements (like Thaxll'ssyllia suggested).
A two hander will make more damage on each hit, and will be the best weapon against a high DR. _________________ The curve is more powerful than the sword -- BG courtesan
First, you can't ignore crits. More attacks wit dual-wield. And the 4 best attacks are better than the 4 best on greatsword. Only the best one is lower. Now start counting BoE or Sneaks and dual/wielding quickly outshines it, even vs DR, except perhaps vs really high DR. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Crits help beat DR, but other than that I think you should show why with numbers to prove your point!
Quote: More attacks wit dual-wield. And the 4 best attacks are better than the 4 best on greatsword. Only the best one is lower.
How relevant that is depends on the AC you're up against, because that dictates how many hits you score per round with the different weapons. I say you need a calculator to see exactly when the different weapons are at their best.
Quote: Now start counting BoE or Sneaks and dual/wielding quickly outshines it, even vs DR, except perhaps vs really high DR.
BoE is a HUGE boost to weapon damage output per hit. So it is clearly a better damage bonus in a dual wield situation where you land more hits per round. I would only count sneaks in when you have situations where your opponent is incapacitated throughout the round, as with KD and stun etc. Though KDing every round affects AB _________________ The curve is more powerful than the sword -- BG courtesan
Quote: More attacks with dual-wield. And the 4 best attacks are better than the 4 best on greatsword. Only the best one is lower.
These two are meant to belong together. I think crits should count since it will benefit dual-wielding, probably. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Edited By Grimnir77 on 08/10/06 19:40
Access to Haste and Divine power complicates things further. They both add an extra attack at your best AB. (Divine power only if you have 3 attacks per round or less.) The best attack from a two-hander is better than the best attack from a dual wielder, both when you look at AB and damage. So adding one or both of these favors the two-hander. _________________ The curve is more powerful than the sword -- BG courtesan
Edited By Mick Dagger on 08/10/06 17:31
Quote: Posted 07/03/06 18:41:04 (GMT) -- MykBaker
I have struggled with this question a lot, trying to find which is more powerful. I typically use a Greatsword for a two handed weapon and I katanas for both of the dual weapons. Can anyone explain to me the best way to find out which would cause more damage?
Although as others have said, the bottom line is that it all depends....
Although for dual-wielding, as someone else said, use the same small weapon in both bands to minimize penalties. And at lower levels (less than 4 or 6 BAB), two-handed wins more often than not (less damage from magic, so base weapon damage more important; to-hit penalties have a bigger impact, fewer damage bonus' (FEs or Sneak); missing out on other feats would have taken instead of the dual-wield feats.)
Another advantage with two weapons is the ability to equipe weapons with different Elemental Damage properties. One Cold and one Acid dagger for instance. It may not seem like a big advantage, but when you face a foe with Energy Immunities, it may make a big difference to have more flexibility.
