Wondering what the best Melee build is. I know there are a lot of circumstances that revolve around the server in question, or the enviroment or whatever, but all around, what is the best Melee'r? I'm guessing RDD is involved in it, because of the free Strength and AC and all that. Weapon Master part of it too? That would leave Bard I guess?
Or are none of those classes even important?
I'm looking for offence though, not defence so much. DD's are good and all, but too defencive I think. DR is great, I know... but personal preference is the ability to smash rather than to be smashed I suppose.
Assuming the equipment is set for a low-magic enviroment? Like, +5 or lower, which Melee would prosper? Lets also say that Dev Crit is allowed, as is HiPS, Dragonshape, and all the good stuff. What would be ideal? Dev Crit is powerful, but I don't understand how it works because I've never used it. I don't even know the prerequisits!
Dragonbuilds are nice, but they normally got too many spells for me to call a Melee though.
Would a Bard/RDD/SD with Dev Crit be really good? A strength based, Dev Crit'er with HiPS?
In your opinion, what is the best Melee?
To hell with Dwarves. All of them. DD or not. Dead!
My bad. I got so caught up in my racism that I didn't realize I didn't answer constructively at all.
I think its an RDD build with the highest Melee AB in the game, right?
For low magic, the best melee build is a cleric. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Quote: Posted 07/29/06 22:40:07 (GMT) -- Okembour
I think its an RDD build with the highest Melee AB in the game, right?
No. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Well, OP said something about not liking spell reliance. Well, correct me if I am wrong on that... but when he said that Dragonshapers normally rely on a few spells, and he said that was negetive, I got the impression that Spell-Heavy builds were not something he liked. But again, correct me if I am wrong OP.
Clerics, I think, are the most spell-reliant Melee's in the whole damn game, right? I normally hate Clerics, to be honest. Imploders are cool, but as Melee's they need too much time to prepair and then they might be Morded and all that jazz.
If it isn't RDD though, what build is the highest AB Melee? Bard/RDD/WM I assumed, Strength and WM bonus stuff, GMW and Bard Buffs... sounds good but I didn't really look into it. So what is it Fin?
But.. gah! Side-Tracking I think. If the OP don't like them stupid buff-heavy weaklings, whats next?
I would have to say that Bards are great. GMW, Keen, Bulls Strength, War Cry, Bardsong, Haste, Invisibility. Thats all you need, and you are prepaired and ready to go, so long as you multi-class into something with some punch.
I think the Bard/RDD/SD sounds interesting, but I never played anywhere with Dev Crit still allowed, so I never really got experience in testing it.
Someone help me out here.
What hit my eyes first in his post is "what is the best melee'r ... for a low magic environment". Simple: cleric. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Sorry guys I wasnt clear.
Okembour is kinda right, but not completely. I dont really like Clerics much because they have so many buffs and I am just bad at managing it all. I never really thought about the disadvantage of preperation or being dispelled but now that I think of it it kind of seems a hastle as well.
My preference was always to have less spells but for different reasons lol. So, when I said Melee'r, I kinda meant it in a way where there are less spell needs.
But ya, I guess Okmbour is right about Bards right? A few buffs and they are done? Not hard to manage the spells and they can take RDD levels or PM levels and all that. But Im kind of losing my train of thought here.
So with the new info, what would make the best Melee'r relying on as few buffs as possible? Offensively.
I assume it has Dev Crit? That just seems so powerful. HiPS I think is the best defence, and RDD gets the Strength up fast... but I dont know how to make it all mesh, or if that is even the best choice.
Well, I don't know Stats and numerical features of builds, but I really did think it was Bard/RDD/Weapon Master.
As for the Cleric thing, it is actually decent now that I think of it. I prefer Bard, as it gets Song and Keen, as well as a few other things and it gives access to RDD and Pale Master and with Curse Song and Taunt, can cripple a foe damn quick. But Clerics can get GMW as well, and Darkfire is decently useful but it is easily shot down when against any foe with resistance to fire which is quite common through spells, feats, items, and class features. Clerics though, can get some spells to back them up. But again, I suppose that isn't what you wanted because that is leaving the domain of Melee.
RDD is a natural choice because of the Strength, which, as I understand it, is a prerequisit for that Devestating Critical you want, and it is a good Damage and Attack boost. The wings are cool, and the immunities are nice. My favourite thing about RDD though, is that is coexists so well with Bard, another great class due to reasons discussed above.
There are also other things to keep in mind too, though. Blackgaurd and Paladin make good choices for Melee. If you know you will be fighting Evil in PvP, I don't think anything... ANYTHING... beats a Paladin/CoT/Weapon Master, but they are generally poor for most PW or RP servers as you will often be fighting something other than Evil, or you will end up expending your Smites fast. Blackgaurd though, gives you Sneak Attack, Divine Might, Divine Shield, Charisma to your Saves, a pathetic Summon, and a Smite Good which can be useful once in a while. With good Charisma, the BG becomes powerful in Melee, because it also gets a full BAB with some Spell-Like abilities.
Weapon Master, with a lot of levels, can earn you a huge AB without any buffs or effects. But their saves normally aren't overly good, and their AC's and HP's are average at best. I dont perticularily like heavy WM, but seven levels are your friend unless there are Critical Immunity items or some other thing that makes them defective.
Fighter gets feats. Thats it. Don't go heavy fighter. You shouldn't really have need for more than 10 levels of Fighter, I don't think.
Rangers are not something I understand. They don't seem very powerful, and sometimes almost seem crippled.
So, as for what makes the best combination, I'm not sure. Rogue's use of UMD and Evasion, as well as Sneak Attacks are a good addition, and HiPS is a good defence unless True Sight hasn't been altered to only see magic disguise. But the best? I wish I knew the numbers.
So, who does know? What is the best Melee AB known? Whatever it is, I think it should be stickied somewhere (Maybe it is and I never looked, because this was never a thought of mine until now...) But I am still thinking Bard/RDD/Something is the best.
So with the new info, what would make the best Melee'r relying on as few buffs as possible? Offensively.
Fighter 11/Rogue 1/WM 28. No buffs whatsoever!
Okembour, sometimes brevity is a virtue _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Quote: Posted 07/30/06 02:52:27 (GMT) -- Okembour
So, who does know? What is the best Melee AB known? Whatever it is, I think it should be stickied somewhere (Maybe it is and I never looked, because this was never a thought of mine until now...) But I am still thinking Bard/RDD/Something is the best.
No. It's Ftr/HS/WM, halfling. _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
The biggest part of the time you spend buffing as a Cleric is immediately after rest, since most of your buffs are long lasting especially if extended and if going for high cleric levels, the latter giving you the benefit of higher SR (Cleric lvl +12) and higher resistance to Mords. The short term buffs you use just before entering battle are just a few (divine favor, divine power, prayer and a few others from domains like AoV or Haste if you have a need for them and/or access to them), besides you should start meleeing from greater sanctuary or at least II so that you'll have time to buff up.
Cleric 35/FTR 4/Rogue 1 or Cleric 37/FTR 2/Rogue 1 exploiting the club bug, or even Cleric 38/FTR 1/Rogue 1 exploiting the same bug. It won't be that easy to debuff you and you'll have a 37 AB, self buffable up to 62, 63 if capping STR through items.
Cleric(38), Fighter(1), Bard(1) Human, any non lawful
LEVELING GUIDE 01: Cleric(1): Combat Casting, Expertise, Domain Trickery, Domain War 02: Cleric(2) 03: Cleric(3): Weapon Focus: Club 04: Cleric(4): WIS+1, (WIS=17) 05: Cleric(5) 06: Cleric(6): Extend Spell 07: Cleric(7) 08: Cleric(8): WIS+1, (WIS=18) 09: Cleric(9): Empower Spell 10: Cleric(10) 11: Cleric(11) 12: Cleric(12): WIS+1, Improved Critical: Club, (WIS=19) 13: Cleric(13) 14: Cleric(14) 15: Cleric(15): Blind Fight 16: Cleric(16): WIS+1, (WIS=20) 17: Cleric(17) 18: Cleric(18): Toughness 19: Cleric(19) 20: Cleric(20): STR+1, (STR=17) 21: Cleric(21): Epic Weapon Focus: Club 22: Cleric(22) 23: Cleric(23): Armor Skin 24: Fighter(1): STR+1, Weapon Specialization: Club, Epic Weapon Specialization: Club, (STR=18) 25: Cleric(24) 26: Cleric(25) 27: Cleric(26): Epic Prowess, Improved Combat Casting 28: Cleric(27): STR+1, (STR=19) 29: Cleric(28) 30: Cleric(29): Great Strength I, Great Wisdom I, (STR=20), (WIS=21) 31: Cleric(30) 32: Cleric(31): STR+1, (STR=21) 33: Cleric(32): Great Strength II, Great Wisdom II, (STR=22), (WIS=22) 34: Cleric(33) 35: Cleric(34) 36: Cleric(35): STR+1, Great Strength III, Great Wisdom III, (STR=24), (WIS=23) 37: Cleric(36) 38: Bard(1) 39: Cleric(37): Great Strength IV, (STR=25) 40: Cleric(38): STR+1, Great Wisdom IV, (STR=26), (WIS=24)
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If you want a Dragon which doesn't rely on buffs try a Ranger/Druid/Monk with BoE, Ranger all the way preepic for max BAB. Check out Gæa's Protector /Ranger 23/Druid 16/Monk 1.
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Bard/WM/RDD going for Dev Crit is feat starved like nothing else, still is doable. The AB is good but not impressive since you'll qualify late for WM and your BAB will stop at 16 (final AB 49 unbuffed). Lemme see, I've got something written down somewhere.... here we go:
Bard(8), Red Dragon Disciple(10), Weapon Master(22) Human, any non lawful
LEVELING GUIDE 01: Bard(1): Dodge, Expertise 02: Bard(2) 03: Bard(3): Weapon Focus 04: Bard(4): STR+1, (STR=17) 05: Bard(5) 06: Red Dragon Disciple(1): Mobility 07: Red Dragon Disciple(2): (STR=19) 08: Red Dragon Disciple(3): STR+1, (STR=20) 09: Red Dragon Disciple(4): Spring Attack, (STR=22) 10: Red Dragon Disciple(5) 11: Red Dragon Disciple(6) 12: Red Dragon Disciple(7): STR+1, Whirlwind Attack, (STR=23), (CON=16) 13: Red Dragon Disciple(8) 14: Weapon Master(1): Weapon of Choice 15: Weapon Master(2): Power Attack 16: Weapon Master(3): STR+1, (STR=24) 17: Bard(6) 18: Weapon Master(4): Cleave 19: Weapon Master(5) 20: Weapon Master(6): STR+1, (STR=25) 21: Red Dragon Disciple(9): Great Cleave, (INT=16) 22: Red Dragon Disciple(10): RDD: (Darkvision), (STR=29), (CHA=13) 23: Weapon Master(7) 24: Weapon Master(8): STR+1, Improved Critical, (STR=30) 25: Weapon Master(9) 26: Weapon Master(10) 27: Weapon Master(11): Overwhelming Critical 28: Weapon Master(12): STR+1, (STR=31) 29: Weapon Master(13): Devastating Critical 30: Weapon Master(14): Great Strength I, (STR=32) 31: Weapon Master(15) 32: Weapon Master(16): STR+1, Epic Weapon Focus, (STR=33) 33: Bard(7): Great Strength II, (STR=34) 34: Weapon Master(17) 35: Weapon Master(18) 36: Weapon Master(19): STR+1, Great Strength III, Armor Skin, (STR=36) 37: Weapon Master(20) 38: Weapon Master(21) 39: Weapon Master(22): Great Strength IV, Epic Prowess, (STR=37) 40: Bard(8): STR+1, (STR=38)
You can go Bard 7/RDD 8/WM 5 preepic, same BAB, grab WP: martial preepic drop 2 GS and get yourself Heavy Armor too. You get -1 AB/damage, -1 DC on Dev Crit, +3 AC and better weapon selection. Some reshuffling of feats will be needed
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As Finn pointed out the highest unbuffed melee AB is a halfling dexer FTR 11/WM 28/HS 1, getting 58 AB IIRC, but if pure melee is what you want I'd go for a STR based FTR 11/WM 28/Bard 1 or Trollborn Asgardian /Fighter 6/CoT 6/WM 28 by Grimnir77.
Just a few ideas. Try to focus on what you want exactly, we could help more.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Looking for a realm of adventure? Check out World of Greyhawk, you won't regret it.
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 07/30/06 11:58
Don't forget about rangers! They get good AB, especially with BoE, and they deal the best dual-wielding damage in the game (well, if we don't count 39 Rogue/1 Asn builds ). _________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
Dev Crit is allowed you say? Thought about Bard/RDD/PM? You end up with a decent unbuffed AB (42) which is easily buffable (GMW, war cry, BS, bard song, curse song, taunt), great AC (41+ naked) again easily buffable (mage armor, magic circle against alignment, haste, bard song, curse song), crit immunity, paralysis/stun immunity, fire immunity and possibly Epic Warding and EMA if you go for Bard 14/PM 16. Bard 20/PM 10 gives you LI, a stronger bard song and more bardic spells.
It's a nice build to play.
Cheers, Kail _________________ To hear the sound of Freedom, many gave their lives They fought for you and me Those memories will always live inside us, and now it's our time to be free
I gotta say, this post was alittle like watching two blind mice tryin to find the cheese with neither noses covered, and a lone angel desperately trying to point them to it. THe hilarious thing is that, when they get their through the angels guidance, they say "NO, thats not it", and try to find it again.
There is a old saying that goes something like, "watch what you ask God for, cuz you may not like his answer." THis reminds me soo much of that... what is best melee for low magic? .. cleric.. no, the other one?.. cleric.. no, i menat that one with, isnt it better?.. no, cleric.. aw, i hate that, isnt somethin better?.. nope not for your question.. and on and on. People seem to think they can hide who they are online, but really, who you are speaks so loud, we cant hear what you are saying. _________________
I think avado answered your question like no other could...
Well now that it has been brought up, I think -I- have to ask something. What are the prerequisits for Devestating Critical? Also, now that you have stabbed my curiosity with a blunt stick, I have to know: What is this Club Bug?
kthxbi
Quote: Posted 07/30/06 16:01:38 (GMT) -- avado
I gotta say, this post was alittle like watching two blind mice tryin to find the cheese with neither noses covered, and a lone angel desperately trying to point them to it. THe hilarious thing is that, when they get their through the angels guidance, they say "NO, thats not it", and try to find it again.
There is a old saying that goes something like, "watch what you ask God for, cuz you may not like his answer." THis reminds me soo much of that... what is best melee for low magic? .. cleric.. no, the other one?.. cleric.. no, i menat that one with, isnt it better?.. no, cleric.. aw, i hate that, isnt somethin better?.. nope not for your question.. and on and on. People seem to think they can hide who they are online, but really, who you are speaks so loud, we cant hear what you are saying.
And the reason I don't like Clerics, is because the new server I play on (Astoria Something or Other) turned all buffs down by one notch. All Hour-Per-Level spells are now based on Turns. Turns became Rounds. I like it because I always thought Clerics were too strong otherwise.
And as for my hate of Dwarves... I only play RP servers and I hate being a Dwarf. So short and YUCKY!
It isn't a crime to be racist and picky.
Quote: Posted 07/30/06 16:01:57 (GMT) -- Okembour
Well now that it has been brought up, I think -I- have to ask something. What are the prerequisits for Devestating Critical? Also, now that you have stabbed my curiosity with a blunt stick, I have to know: What is this Club Bug?
kthxbi
The prereq for Dev Crit are Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical, Overwhelming Critical, 25+ STR. Oddly WF/EWF are not a prereq.
The "club bug" is that you can take WS/EWS with the club without the minimum 4 FTR lvls required to specialize in any of the other weapons. You must take IC: club though to qualify for WS/EWS and for EWF too IIRC. Also, you must have 4+ BAB to take WS: club
Instead of not liking clerics with that downgrade, I would not like the server
Cheers, Kail _________________ Looking for a realm of adventure? Check out World of Greyhawk, you won't regret it.
Instead of not liking clerics with that downgrade, I would not like the server
Kail, that is SAGE advice. Infact, it is such good advice, we should sticky it! But we'd have to change it abit.. you know "Instead of not liking ( ), I wouldn not like the server " where the brackets are anything stupid that we hear here! _________________
I gotta say, this post was alittle like watching two blind mice tryin to find the cheese with neither noses covered, and a lone angel desperately trying to point them to it. THe hilarious thing is that, when they get their through the angels guidance, they say "NO, thats not it", and try to find it again.
There is a old saying that goes something like, "watch what you ask God for, cuz you may not like his answer." THis reminds me soo much of that... what is best melee for low magic? .. cleric.. no, the other one?.. cleric.. no, i menat that one with, isnt it better?.. no, cleric.. aw, i hate that, isnt somethin better?.. nope not for your question.. and on and on. People seem to think they can hide who they are online, but really, who you are speaks so loud, we cant hear what you are saying.
But indeed in a low magic environment cleric is a strong meleer
The OP stated that he doesn't like cleric cause he's bad at managing the buffs: with some practice you'll get the hung of it and realize how good cleric is and how easy is to buff up... I mean what are those hotkeys for?
Anyhow, better suggestion could be given if the OP narrows down what he wants and what he's aiming to. Good melee build is a rather broad category.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Quote: I gotta say, this post was alittle like watching two blind mice tryin to find the cheese with neither noses covered, and a lone angel desperately trying to point them to it. THe hilarious thing is that, when they get their through the angels guidance, they say "NO, thats not it", and try to find it again.
So true man.
Quote: And the reason I don't like Clerics, is because the new server I play on (Astoria Something or Other) turned all buffs down by one notch. All Hour-Per-Level spells are now based on Turns. Turns became Rounds. I like it because I always thought Clerics were too strong otherwise.
And as for my hate of Dwarves... I only play RP servers and I hate being a Dwarf. So short and YUCKY!
It isn't a crime to be racist and picky.
You're so blind Okembour.
Oh well, Zoodleton is another guy who's never liked my powergaming suggestions, so I won't lose my time this one, you all know what I would say: A Dwarven Defender, but heck you're so close-minded to see reality.
If you are going to exploit Dev Crit probably a Barbarian/Weapon Master could get the catch, Barbarian gets Great Strength as epic bonus feat, with WMs crit threat range and maybe a scimitar you'll crit often and Dev Crit's DC will be high (STR increases Dev Crit's DC Zoodleton, just in case you didn't know), as well as your power and all, you could get all sorts of Rages for a big CON and STR boost on a single undispellable buff and (yay) a little natural DR.
Edited By Thaxll'ssyllia on 07/30/06 17:22
Quote: Posted 07/30/06 16:01:38 (GMT) -- avado
I gotta say, this post was alittle like watching two blind mice tryin to find the cheese with neither noses covered, and a lone angel desperately trying to point them to it. THe hilarious thing is that, when they get their through the angels guidance, they say "NO, thats not it", and try to find it again.
There is a old saying that goes something like, "watch what you ask God for, cuz you may not like his answer." THis reminds me soo much of that... what is best melee for low magic? .. cleric.. no, the other one?.. cleric.. no, i menat that one with, isnt it better?.. no, cleric.. aw, i hate that, isnt somethin better?.. nope not for your question.. and on and on. People seem to think they can hide who they are online, but really, who you are speaks so loud, we cant hear what you are saying.
_________________ "With Europe liberated, the people of the world turned their attention to that old devil, the United States of America [...] We taught that monster of old the true meaning of freedom." Star Wreck
And that Club Exploit is kind of odd. Is it worth it though? Clubs are yucky too. What kind of self-respecting individual charges into battle with a really big stick.
And as for the server's choice in degrading buffs, I like it. It makes it more like PnP. The only advantage a Melee had in PnP was the ability to close in on the caster before he could cast his million buffs and be uber in every single way. NWN, casters rest and prepair, and they are sitting there ready forever and ever and ever. Melee's got raped. This is somewhat more balancing in my honest opinion.
But, sticky it anyways. For ****'s and giggles.
Quote: Dwarves are YUCKY!
The correct phrase is "IMO, Dwarves are YUCKY". Anyway, that wasn't my point and you know it, yucky or not, power has respect when its due (i.e. when it kills you).
The Club Exploit can be very powerful, but of course, there are some "requirements" if you have to use a one handed weapon, or you use Weapon Finesse (for which scimitar is kind of the biggest weapon that works), you can select Club, at which point other weapons will be only slightly better (if any) and you can get EWS (+6 damage) with a single Fighter level, keeping the rest of the levels for something better (if there is something better).
Hmmm, as the previous sayings on Club Exploit, Clerics and Dwarven defenders were sent to hell, I've gotten a new idea for a build, I'll make a Cleric17/Fighter1/Dwarven Defender22 with the Club Exploit, and he'll be a King of low magical environments, you'll see.
I bet a Dragon would kill that stupid abomination of yours.
But this is off topic. Wait.. what is the topic now? I forget.
Hmm.. did anyone post what build holds the highest AB out there?
If you are going to exploit Dev Crit probably a Barbarian/Weapon Master could get the catch, Barbarian gets Great Strength as epic bonus feat
No they don't, noone does. But in a low-magic setting Barbarians can be kings.
Viking berserker Just take a look, might get some ideas.
Quote: Posted 07/31/06 04:32:30 (GMT) -- Okembour
Hmm.. did anyone post what build holds the highest AB out there?
That is a Halfling Fighter11/HS1/WM28, getting 56 AB with mundane weapon. Won't do much damage though.
My own Trollborn Asgardian gets the highest STR-based AB unbuffed, unconditional and non-gimmicked. And it whips out damage like there is no tomorrow. By giving up some skillpoints you can get 40 more hp's too. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Quote: Posted 07/31/06 04:32:30 (GMT) -- Okembour
I bet a Dragon would kill that stupid abomination of yours.
Well, with 22 DwD levels and if he takes the 3 EDR feats, he'll have 24/- DR, so the physical attacks will be absorbed to a great degree.
Of course, the KD attempts from the dragon may be hard to survive...
Abomination?
BTW, Thax, the Scimitar is a not a finessable weapon. You must have been thinking of the Rapier. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Okembour, I have to ask: have you actually played Dwarves at all? The reason I ask is you once said the following about Bards:
Quote: Posted 06/04/06 05:01:26 (GMT) -- Okembour
When I say Bards are gay, I don't mean the class is bad combat wise. I mean I don't like the idea of Singers, Storytellers, Performers, Historians (etc.) in most cases. I'm kind of one-sided on this though, I just dont like Bards much.
But earlier in this thread you said this about Bards:
Quote: Posted 07/30/06 00:01:43 (GMT) -- Okembour
I would have to say that Bards are great. GMW, Keen, Bulls Strength, War Cry, Bardsong, Haste, Invisibility. Thats all you need, and you are prepaired and ready to go, so long as you multi-class into something with some punch.
So, I'm thinking you've been playing Bards and now enjoy them. Perhaps the same would happen if you give Dwarves a try? _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
I cannot believe you have that info on him Cinn! THat is scarry! From what was said in this post about dwarves and such, i would almost bet a million dollars that he has never actually played the game at all.... I said ALMOST! But that would be alittle harsh and i may be alittle drunk from all that weak water that us canadians celebrate with...
*read the sig if you think about the million $s* _________________
This post is for general information purposes only, and does not constitute a legal opinion or render any legal advice. It may not be relied on for any purpose, and gives rise to
Edited By avado on 07/31/06 06:45
It's just a weird coincidence that I happened to read the thread where he said that about Bards when I was looking for something else today. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
In my life experience, there are no coincidences! _________________
Quote: Posted 07/31/06 07:07:18 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
It's just a weird coincidence that I happened to read the thread where he said that about Bards when I was looking for something else today.
Coincidence? I don't belive in coincidences. CD must be a polymorphed ancient dragon having fun with us humans... though I can't be sure about the polymorphed and dragon part
Dwarves rock and roleplaying them is a lot of fun. Okembour might change his mind after giving it a try as it happened with bard.
EDIT: almost forgot, I won't tolerate any more racial disrespect towards my dwarven brethren
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 07/31/06 08:12
Actually, Dwarven Defenders is one of the worst things to beat in a dragon-build, since DR is probaly the best defense vs dragons. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Dragons could probably disarm and knock them down easily, considering the size difference, but even so it would take a long time to eat through all those HP's with all that DR. But I don't care. I stand by what I said.
And Bards still suck. But I can tolerate them depending on the atmosphere. If they are rare on the server then it is fun, because they are the loremaster of the entire land and are the last tie to ancient relics and what not. Interesting. But if anyone -EVER- pulled a Dwarven Bard... Oh! My! God!
Not heavy on Bard levels, but...
Master of Resistance
Dwarven Hammersong
The Dualist _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 07/31/06 17:08:23 (GMT) -- Okembour
Dragons could probably disarm and knock them down easily,
No easier than any of the other PC races.
Quote: ...but even so it would take a long time to eat through all those HP's with all that DR. But I don't care. I stand by what I said.
Poor misguided fool. You'll learn hte true glory of Dwarves one day. The you'll lament all that time lost playing those generic "Oh look, I get extra skill points and a feat or otherwise nobody would play me" Humans or those pointy-eared frail "Oh look, my favored class is Wizard even though I'm totally unsuited to the class and it should be Rogue" Elves.
Quote: And Bards still suck. But I can tolerate them depending on the atmosphere. If they are rare on the server then it is fun, because they are the loremaster of the entire land and are the last tie to ancient relics and what not. Interesting. But if anyone -EVER- pulled a Dwarven Bard... Oh! My! God!
Bards rock. Dwarf Bards are even better. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
All Dwarven Defender/Red Dragon Disciple builds need a Bard or Sorcerer level in, everybody chooses Bard over Sorcerer for the skills, BAB and song, and there are 13 of them on the index if my memory serves right. Don't worry, you'll see my abonimation in less than a week, I just need to check everything is in order, eat my meal with lots of ale, and click on "Post". You can always find how to beat a build, there is no such thing as the perfect build, but one can try.
Aside from the dwarven dispute which seems not to be progressing on either side, the original post was made by Zoodleton, aka, the only guy who's missing to reply here, he should make the call for the build he likes, not any of us, suggestions have been made and all, so there's nothing else for me to do here.
the original post was made by Zoodleton, aka, the only guy who's missing to reply here,
That happens alot, which is one of the reasons I rarely go all-out just to respond to a request that s forgotten if not answered immediately.
A dragon would have a hard time hurting a DD at all without crits, and Disarm from dragons is resisted as if it was a medium weapon. I'm not counting Clerical dragons here. _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
Well, without elemental resistance a shifter dragon with lotsa druid/shifter lvls will have a strong breath weapon which can take care of the DwD, spamming it in Imp expertise mode. That's why I like DwD+Rogue to get IE and make the reflex save be put to some good use.
By the way, nothing stops you from building a DwD Dragon...oh wait, I already did it! About to post it, so that people will think twice before insulting the mighty dwarves
Cheers, Kail _________________ Looking for a realm of adventure? Check out World of Greyhawk, you won't regret it.
I have a "Bard 14/PM 16/DD 10" It doesn't have EDR feats, but it does have the base DR from 10DD, crit immune, epic warding, epic mage armor, song and decent AB. Fun to play against dragons
-pc
You are all impossible. Dwarves suck. I'm leaving this thread!
And Bardic Dwarves lose Charisma which makes it hard to play unless they get RDD to counter the loss. But you didn't specify. So have fun playing your ugly Dwarf Cinnabar Din.
UGLY I SAY!
But wait, Kail, you said Dwarven Defender Dragon? Do the DR's stack or something? Does the Dragon really need more DR? Or did you just say Dwarven, not Dwarven Defender? The Constitution bonus doesn't help when shifted though, right?
Whatever. I would never play the build anyways. Because its UGLY and YUCKY!
Yes I says Dwarven Defender Dragon.
No the DRs do not stack but against +6 or better weapons your natural dragon DR is worthless. Keep present that another dragon build will ignore your dragon DR too. You also keep the boni from defensive stance (the dodge bonus to AC is useless though). DwD greatly helps your human form too.
Just out of curiosity, ar eyou an elf fan by any chance? That would explain a lot of things...
All hail the mighty Dwarves!
Cheers, Kail _________________ Stand and fight, live by your heart Always one more try, I'm not afraid to die Stand and fight, say what you feel Born with a Heart of Steel!
Quote: Posted 08/01/06 20:22:49 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon All hail the mighty Dwarves!
*Hailing
I like Elves more than Dwarves. But no. I don't really like them overly much.
Tis' all I will play unless there is some odd circumstance, or if its an arena server and I dont care about being an ugly midget freak-dwarf because there is no RP.
God, I dont even remember the point of this thread
Quote: Posted 08/01/06 20:22:49 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon DwD greatly helps your human form too.
And how do you accomplish that feat of absurdity? _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
).
Okembour, I have to ask: have you actually played Dwarves at all? The reason I ask is you once said the following about Bards:
