I've been trying to figure out the best class combination to achieve the highest possible AC in a +5 environment.
Now I am not looking for a playable character at all, just to see what could be the highest achievable.
Some things to consider that could be accepted are that they can be buffed from another source, eg. a 30th level Bard for +7 Bard AC Bonus (Dodge), if you understand my meaning.
No class or alignment restrictions, just a challenge really.
I had considered Monk, Bard, PM or Monk, Wiz, PM with an external 30th Bard Song. Hitting the 100 point mark, but I'm sure it can be beaten.
Any suggestions?
How much +stat gear is available? Can you only max 1 stat? Or could you get +12 to two different ones? Or are you not allowed to get any +stat gear at all?
*edit* Also, do you consider -AB from Curse Song to be equivalent to AC?
Edited By Nimueh_Leafbow on 04/13/07 20:56
+12 to more than one stat (DEX, WIS, CHA)
Curse song adds to ac in my book
I guess I'll start off, then:
*edit* +1 against the current enemy for Dodge, but that may or may not count.
Edited By Nimueh_Leafbow on 04/13/07 23:01
I know this is just an AC challenge, but I consider a high AC + Epic Dodge is way better for defense than a higher AC wiht no Epic Dodge, mainly because when you reach the "untouchable" values Epic Dodge will allow to you evade even for rolls of 20.
*edit* +1 against the current enemy for Dodge, but that may or may not count.
This reminds me of.... something off of Bastions of War.
Quote: Posted 04/14/07 06:47 (GMT) -- mantis3
This reminds me of.... something off of Bastions of War.
I hope it's not too similar to anything that gets used there, because as posted it's complete unplayable trash. No uncanny dodge, so if you're ever flat-footed, 46 of that AC goes away. And if you're not flat-footed, there's no reason you'd ever need more than about 90 AC to be unhittable except with a natural 20 in a setting like BoW (+4 weapons, IIRC, and +6 armor). Thax is right; scrap a bunch of AC and get ED. And some offensive power, maybe.
Now, since it's a team PvP server, something like a Bard 30/PM 10 may show up a lot, which isn't supposed to get any kills, just sing for everybody. That would get a pretty nice AC, too.
Thanks for the feedback.
Playability was never an option - purely trying to find out what is the highest possible, with the relative benefits of all the potential AC sources.
107 looks to be the highest for now. Unless someone else can beat it.
Thanks again
You could get kills if you relied on UMD scrolls to instant kill/disable people.
I hope it's not too similar to anything that gets used there, because as posted it's complete unplayable trash. No uncanny dodge, so if you're ever flat-footed, 46 of that AC goes away. And if you're not flat-footed, there's no reason you'd ever need more than about 90 AC to be unhittable except with a natural 20 in a setting like BoW (+4 weapons, IIRC, and +6 armor). Thax is right; scrap a bunch of AC and get ED. And some offensive power, maybe.
Now, since it's a team PvP server, something like a Bard 30/PM 10 may show up a lot, which isn't supposed to get any kills, just sing for everybody. That would get a pretty nice AC, too.
No, I misread your post in fact. They go for 16 Rogue, 20 PM, 4 Bard (or something close to that).
And it's a trapper/taunter.
Probably like...40 monk starting with the most possible dex and wis, nothing else
I just couldn't resist it.. Max ac, but otherwise useless build: I hope no one else has made something like this:
Wizard 11/pm 28/monk 1
110 ac, self buffed.
Ac improving feats: Great Wisdom VI Epic Mage armor Armor Skin Empower Spell imp expertise
Start with 18 wisdom and max tumble. You'll end with 30 wisdom, cast empowered owl's wisdom (With a good roll 7) and empowered cats grace(With a good roll 7), haste and epic mage armor, jump into slaad shape, activate imp expertise.
With some helpers If someone throw around an aura of vitality and cast owl's insight on you, you'll get another 5 ac. I think you have 10 dodge ac used, so someone could cast around a few undeaths eternal foe. 125 ac. Not that it will ever help you though.
I believe cdaulepp once showed how to get 137 AC (It may have actually been higher, but 137 sticks in my head), but I can't recall the exact details of the build. _________________ Captain's Log, Stardate 6051: had trouble sleeping last night... my hiatal hernia is acting up. The ship is drafty and damp; I complain, but... nobody listens.
It was with +5 stuff? If so kidnap the guy and have him tell us!
Hmmmm, it may have been with +20 stuff now that I think about it. Even so, you really don't need anything higher than 21 + the highest possible AB to be basically unhittable. I believe the highest possible AB is an AA build with +89. So, an AC of 110 should be plenty.
*edit* Anyway, I think the classes he used were Bard, PM, and possibly Druid. Just can't recall for certain, and I can't seem to find the post. I'll keep looking. _________________ Captain's Log, Stardate 6051: had trouble sleeping last night... my hiatal hernia is acting up. The ship is drafty and damp; I complain, but... nobody listens.
You can get 174 AC. That is verified AC. That isn't just what the screen says, that is actual AC. Build a Palemaster/ Bard/ RDD and use improved expertise with +20 items, armor skin feat, max tumble, etc. You can get 174 AC. Taunt the monster and maybe you can get higher.
The max AB right now is 92 I think. Mithdradates built it in the discussion on epic builds at the top of this forum. It gets 92 using Smite Evil. Otherwise it gets +80 on normal attacks, but its AC is not the point on that build.
cdaulepp
Also, there is this posting that leads to a dead website: Click Here _________________ This message approved by the Pangean Expatriates Committee for the Reunification of Pangea.
Edited By Kaliban99 on 05/30/07 02:14
That's ridiculous AC, let's not say only Epic Dodge, if you're already over 110 at least get yourself Epic Energy Resistance instead of Armor Skin, seriously.
I could swear Improved Expertise counted against your dodge cap. Plus, there's a lot more interesting things you can do if you have +5 items rather than +20. If you get all +20, alternate sources of AC are irrelevant.
Let's look at Evo's build from the link for an example. In a +20 world:
Quote: Most ac is an elf-dex based bard */rdd 8 /pm 28 start with 20 dex and take 6 great dex feats Lets look at this 10 Base 20 Deflection 20 Armor 20 Shield 20 Natural 20 Dodge 19(48 dex after +12 dex equipment) 2 Armor Skin 3 RDD 16 PM 10 Imp Evasion 8 Tumble = 168 AC
In a +5 world you get: 10 Base 5 Deflection 5 Armor 5 Shield 5 Natural 5 Dodge 19(48 dex after +12 dex equipment) 2 Armor Skin 3 RDD 16 PM 10 Imp Evasion 8 Tumble = 93 AC
So, you see, there's a horrible inflation that occurs. Even with a starting 174, you're really looking at a big ol' -75 AC to that, so it's more like 99 in a +5 environ.
Yeah, in a +5 world bard11/RDD1/pm 28 would do way better than that one. Uhm.. way better being abit better. Since you'd actually get bard song and some other spells. 108 ac actually.. Max dex and a +5 towershield does wonders.
Edited By Kramsikrams on 05/30/07 19:38
Quote: Posted 05/30/07 04:28 (GMT) -- Ariel Thomas
I could swear Improved Expertise counted against your dodge cap.
It doesn't. Divine Shield AC is Dodge-based and counts towards the cap, but Expertise is not based on any of the 5 types as far as stacking is concerned.
Kaliban: thanks for finding that bloody post. Damned search function is useless to me, at least. _________________ Captain's Log, Stardate 6051: had trouble sleeping last night... my hiatal hernia is acting up. The ship is drafty and damp; I complain, but... nobody listens.
Out of curiosity. Does dodge (the feat) count towards the dodge ac cap?
Quote: Posted 05/31/07 19:57 (GMT) -- Kramsikrams
Out of curiosity. Does dodge (the feat) count towards the dodge ac cap?
Dodge Feat gives a dodge AC buff. Dodge AC is part of the 20 cap.
Quote: Posted 05/31/07 19:57 (GMT) -- Kramsikrams
Out of curiosity. Does dodge (the feat) count towards the dodge ac cap?
No. _________________ " -- They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more."
The Dodge feat description in wiki says it's dodge ac, and normaly dodge ac is capped. But the Dodge feat is not part of the cap.
Mhm..Can't remember why I asked anymore. Anyway, I'll post a build soon which can gain 109 ac with +5 stuff, and who also got a nice ac, moderatly good ab (Enough to hit someone with it) and he got 11 bard levels, so he isn't totally useless with mundane stuff.
So, it seems someone made almost the exactly same build a few weeks ago. Only difference is the dex and cha. And the fact that he get more ac without any magical stuff at all. Mine could with magical items.. but that is hardly anything to be proud off. A shame the build was not in the search thingy yet
How much +stat gear is available? Can you only max 1 stat? Or could you get +12 to two different ones? Or are you not allowed to get any +stat gear at all?
You could get kills if you relied on UMD scrolls to instant kill/disable people.
Mhm..Can't remember why I asked anymore. Anyway, I'll post a build soon which can gain 109 ac with +5 stuff, and who also got a nice ac, moderatly good ab (Enough to hit someone with it) and he got 11 bard levels, so he isn't totally useless with mundane stuff.
So, it seems someone made almost the exactly same build a few weeks ago. Only difference is the dex and cha. And the fact that he get more ac without any magical stuff at all. Mine could with magical items.. but that is hardly anything to be proud off. A shame the build was not in the search thingy yet