When one looks through our list of characters you see a lot of sneak type builds. Especially the heavy sneakers which rely on sneak attacks to do dmg. My question is which would be most succesful on a no magic server?

the monk/sd/assa, rog/sd/assa, ranger/sd/assa and so on.

One of my main questions concerning sneakers is the number of attacks. How important do you consider a full BAB class in a sneakers build?

I'm asking, because I want to build a sneaker which can survive, bring useful skills to a party, maintain a certain degree of fighting potential and take out single targets with great ease coming out from stealth. Full BAB classes are important to get a full attack routine. This lets you get more strikes in the first flurry, when you can land sneak attacks on your opponent before he's engaged.

As for the build, you say 'no magic'. Do you really mean no magic (no caster classes, or just no magic items). If it means just no items, I might think of going for some caster levels of some type in order to give your sneaker some magic. If you mean no caster classes, then I'd probably opt for the RGR/SD/Assn combo (assuming the RGR isn't considered a casting class) or maybe even a FTR/Rogue/SD.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! Th world holds casters ofc. You can play casters and you will go up against casters as well, but it is very party based, the world that I play. It is the same old story, cleric,druid, sorcs and wiz rule the scene. There are magic items, but for many it would seem like a almost no magic server. +1 is what you can get on items regardless of property. I had a dark elf once which was based towards 21monk/13rog/6ftr. It never reached more than lvl 11, before I decided to do a cleric instead. Now I am at the exact same lvl and making a sneaker. I have a larg background history built up around him making him a strong roleplaying character and he turns into a super assassin in my story. So I'm looking for pros and cons so I can create a super assassin. my own thoughts were 12monk/5sd/23 assassin, but I am all ears. I would note that low-magic servers like that do not favor sneak builds. Things going against you: you can't get you AC up into the really hard to hit levels (high magic favors defense, low magic favors offense), you can't get lots of magic damage on your weapons to make up for low str, you can't get bonuses to your Dex or Hide/MS from items (leaving you in danger of being detected), and the presence of mages who can cast True Sight and flatten you with spells that you can't get resistances to from items.

In an environment like that, I would favor a Wiz/Rogue or Cleric/Rogue type, so you can cast some buffs on yourself and your weapons. Some fighter levels wouldn't hurt, either. SD may be a waste if you come up against casters who use True Sight (although it will be quite effective against non-casters).

TM Spells are nerfed of course. TS is not that powerful. caster levels will certainly be your friend, here, and I'd choose wizard over cleric, because intelligence is more useful to a rogue build than wisdom.

if you take 14 int and 8 wizard levels, you could cast:
-bull's strength, cat's grace, endurance and flame weapon once per day;
-haste, greater magic weapon (for a +2 bonus), and keen edge once per day (or protection from elements, to help protect you from fireballs and whatnot);
-stoneskin and improved invisibility once per day.

however, you'd probably need to take these levels early on - there's no reason to shoot for improved invisibility if you have to wait until epic levels to get it - so that might reduce the playability of your build, idk. still... you could take 8 fighter levels pre-epic (for BAB), and 8 wizard levels anytime, and then 24 rogue... sounds like a fun build to me.

That would bring about an exp penalty, though, so you might be better off bringing in prestige classes... CoT instead of fighter or assassin instead of rogue.

here's two builds you might want to check out:

The Assassin Mage (FTR 6 / Wizard 10 / Assn 24)
-- Mescalino

Elven Champion Spellsword (Rogue 21 / COT 10 / Wizard 9)
-- Kaliban99


EDIT: oh, if spells are nerfed then you might just want to ignore everything i just said ...or maybe that'll give a build like this a new advantage (improved invisibility will work everywhere)...

Edited By eltrentoro on 07/24/07 18:37

No, Rogue/Wiz/Fighter works well, and can even avoid the XP penalty as a human or Halfling, as long as you balance Fighter and Wizard levels.

I would say something like Rogue 19/Wiz 11/Fighter 10 would work well. Pre-epic go with Rogue 12/Fighter 5/Wiz 4, then in Epic take 2 Wiz, then alernate Fighter and Wizard till you get them to 10 and 11 (or save 1 of each for final Discipline/Tumble dumps), then the rest Rogue (or take Rogue 13 as soon as you qualify for ED). Should come out quite nicely - you will have up to level 6 Wizard spells (so need at least a 16 Int), decent AB, WS/EWS, plenty of buffs, etc.

TM Im not able to multiclass sorcs/wiz.
A clean sneaker is my wish. So if you have any suggestions to that, please write them down. THen my two suggestions would be either my Sneaky Hobbit build: Click Here

Or Grizz's Zhentarim Field Agent build: Click Here

TM ahh, well then... find a new server? p

jk... i don't know that much about sneakers, actually, so i guess i'm no help at all, really.

i don't really know why i'm still typing....... HIPS is lame
19 Rogue 15 Ranger 6 Monk
Halfling, Lawful Neutral

48 DEX
131 Hide
Duel Wielded Daggers

78ish AC depending on gear
56ish duelwielded AB depending on gear

I prefer having slightly more speed but this is an oldschool sneaker when we could bug monk speed >.<
Some would say use kamas... meh they are broken in NWN and give too many attacks. Plus you lose 1 AB due to larger size weapon.
Quote: Posted 07/24/07 15:29 (GMT) -- Saints of Apocalypse

When one looks through our list of characters you see a lot of sneak type builds. Especially the heavy sneakers which rely on sneak attacks to do dmg. My question is which would be most succesful on a no magic server?

the monk/sd/assa, rog/sd/assa, ranger/sd/assa and so on.

One of my main questions concerning sneakers is the number of attacks. How important do you consider a full BAB class in a sneakers build?

I'm asking, because I want to build a sneaker which can survive, bring useful skills to a party, maintain a certain degree of fighting potential and take out single targets with great ease coming out from stealth.

The topic title is a bit misleading. You're not asking for a versatile character, but an effective killer and survivor with some party skills.

In a low magic world the casters will rule. As an arcane caster you can "sneak around" under haste and invisibility spells, spam time stop and kill all faster than anything else.

If you multiclass with SD (one lvl of e.g. PM first for the skilldump) you can save some invis spells and HIPS away instead.

Wizards get more skillpoints and feats than sorcerers. They also have a wider spell selection, so in that sense they are more "versatile".

My most versatile character build is in fact a dexer cleric/monk/SD with trickery domain (something close to Yar Stardawg's iconic build Priest of the Shadows). It can fill the role of both sneaker, frontline fighter, buffer and healer. It can accomplish many other tasks with either a skill or a spell.
It has no "sneak damage", but kills fast nevertheless.
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I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it...

Edited By Mick Dagger on 08/21/07 13:15

I would suggest my Black Adder build.

Click Here

It's a Kobold Comando (not epic). With 20d6 sneak damage and DC 45 Death Attack.

Built in +3 magic sword, HIPS, TONS of skill points. Having reviewed the build, I'd probably dump the Discipline points and take something else with them.