I would like to build a ranger that excels in setting traps.
Basic idea.
Human
Str 14 (Focus of further points) Dex 14 Con 12 Wis 12 (Two more for spells) Int 16 (Will I need more?) Cha 8
Feats. WF Double Axe, IKD, Cleave, Alertness, Iron Will. (abbreviated)
I would like to have many enemies on my list and use BOE. I would also like to use HS for 5 levels. Rogue levels up to including crippling strike and skill mastery.
Any ideas would be appreciated. I can figure out how to work this for levels 1-20 but I want to make sure I can play it at levels 20-40. _________________ Entropy is a joule thief
Quote: Posted 10/06/07 14:16 (GMT) -- Beetlenut
I would like to build a ranger that excels in setting traps.
Basic idea.
Human
Str 14 (Focus of further points) Dex 14 Con 12 Wis 12 (Two more for spells) Int 16 (Will I need more?) Cha 8
INT 14, CON 14, WIS 14 is a better starting spread.
Quote: I would like to have many enemies on my list and use BOE.
Which means lotsa Ranger lvls.
Quote: I would also like to use HS for 5 levels. Rogue levels up to including crippling strike and skill mastery.
Skill Mastery is no big deal. If you find yourself in need to set traps while fighting, you are doing something wrong. I suggest to drop it. Ranger 25/Rogue 10/HS 5 should be ok. Take HS in Epic only so that you get to select from the Epic feat list.
Ranger 16/Rogue 4 preepic (start with a rogue lvl), BoE at 27th lvl. I suggest scale mail/chain shirt armor it gives low penalties and can be easily dex capped with modest gear. Oh, but you want to dual wield right? Then hide/studded leather armor is the way to go.
Whipped up something fast for you to look at:
Ranger(25), Rogue(10), Harper Scout(5) Human, any non evil
SKILLS Disable Trap 43(47), Discipline 42(52), Hide 43(46), Lore 6(13), Move Silently 43(46), Open Lock 12(15), Persuade 8(7), Search 40(42), Set Trap 40(45), Tumble 40(43), UMD 36(35), no points leftover
LEVELING GUIDE 01: Rogue(1): Blind Fight, Toughness 02: Ranger(1): Favored Enemy I, {Dual Wield} 03: Ranger(2): Weapon Focus 04: Ranger(3): STR+1, (STR=15) 05: Ranger(4) 06: Ranger(5): Knockdown, Favored Enemy II 07: Ranger(6) 08: Rogue(2): STR+1, {Evasion}, (STR=16) 09: Ranger(7): Improved Knockdown 10: Ranger(8) 11: Ranger(9): {Improved Two-Weapon Fighting} 12: Ranger(10): STR+1, Improved Critical, Favored Enemy III, (STR=17) 13: Rogue(3): {Uncanny Dodge I} 14: Ranger(11) 15: Ranger(12): Alertness 16: Ranger(13): STR+1, (STR=18) 17: Ranger(14) 18: Rogue(4): Iron Will 19: Ranger(15): Favored Enemy IV 20: Ranger(16): STR+1, (STR=19) 21: Harper Scout(1): Great Strength I, Great Dexterity I, (STR=20), (DEX=15) 22: Ranger(17) 23: Rogue(5) 24: Ranger(18): STR+1, Armor Skin, (STR=21) 25: Ranger(19) 26: Ranger(20): Favored Enemy V 27: Ranger(21): Great Strength II, (STR=22) 28: Rogue(6): STR+1, (STR=23) 29: Ranger(22) 30: Ranger(23): Great Strength III, Epic Weapon Focus, (STR=24) 31: Harper Scout(2) 32: Harper Scout(3): STR+1, (STR=25) 33: Harper Scout(4): Great Strength IV, (STR=26) 34: Harper Scout(5): Great Dexterity II, (DEX=16) 35: Ranger(24) 36: Rogue(7): STR+1, Great Strength V, (STR=28) 37: Rogue(8) 38: Rogue(9) 39: Ranger(25): Great Strength VI, Epic Prowess, (STR=29) 40: Rogue(10): STR+1, Crippling Strike, (STR=30) _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 10/06/07 19:30
Thanks. My math was off a bit and your initial stats are better. Also, I somehow had the idea that I would have to max out set and disable traps in order to handle epic traps.
Usually I for rangers I go with hand-axes but I think I haven't used KD and IKD enough in my builds. Would it be better with those to use a dual-wield weapon? It is a lot of feats to be able to do that and rangers don't have lots of feats. Also, is cleave useful at higher levels? I usually play stealth types and it is quite useful for getting through battles quickly. But this build will have a lot more hit points than I usually have and it may not be necessary.
(As you pointed out Rangers should be flexible with armor and weapons. Sometimes dual wielding in hide and sometimes with shield and chain.)
Also, you are right about skill mastery. I used it with a Rogue/SD before but one should set up traps before battles not during battles.
Ranger 25/rogue 10/HS 5 looks pretty good. Could hand out a good amount of damage especially to favored enemies, fairly stealthy, has few weaknesses and can set up a nice battle plan with traps, ranged weapons, umd, and a companion.
Again thanks for your help. And thanks to CD. It should be apparent to anyone that his posts have much to do with thinking of how to develop this character. _________________ Entropy is a joule thief
I will still have to fiddle with the numbers. As such I won't be able to set or disarm epic traps such as epic fire or electrical traps which have a set DC of 65. Skill mastery actually might be useful because a spectacular failure with an epic trap would tend to ruin anyone's day. _________________ Entropy is a joule thief
Quote: Posted 10/07/07 08:54 (GMT) -- Beetlenut
I will still have to fiddle with the numbers. As such I won't be able to set or disarm epic traps such as epic fire or electrical traps which have a set DC of 65. Skill mastery actually might be useful because a spectacular failure with an epic trap would tend to ruin anyone's day.
Set/Disarm Traps are take 20 skills so that you need "only" respectively 45 and 38 (48 to recover traps) modified ranks in them to handle even epic traps. Skill Mastery lets you take 20 when in combat, but having to set traps or open a lock while someone is trying to carve you up ain't a good idea in the first place skill mastery or not. It's better to prepare the field of battle before any fight starts, maybe with the aid of stealth (even without HiPS, if they ain't looking at you or you are fast at "hiding" again at the end of the setting of each trap they won't see you) and/or wands of invisibility.
A minor INT enhancing item (+2) or a potion/scroll of Fox cunning or a minor disarm traps enhancing item (+1 to it) will let you automatically recover Epic traps to. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
I think I will need epic skill focus. I played with the character developing module and even with skill focus in both set and disable, both cats grace spells cast and one with the land, which has a +4 to set traps, I only got up to skills of 60 for setting. That still gives me 5 more points.
Your analysis of strategy is correct. Furthermore, if the battle will be tough you need two trap areas. One for retreating to and one to do damage. This is not always possible but it is nice if it can be done.
Too bad the build cannot handle creating traps. But a build can't do everything.
Quote: Posted 10/07/07 09:34 (GMT) -- Beetlenut
I think I will need epic skill focus. I played with the character developing module and even with skill focus in both set and disable, both cats grace spells cast and one with the land, which has a +4 to set traps, I only got up to skills of 60 for setting. That still gives me 5 more points.
So, if I get it right, you plan to use traps in combat?
BTW, why HS? Ranger 26/Rogue 14 might be a better alternative, or Ranger 21-23/FTR 4/Rogue 13-15. You'll have more skillpoints and be able to craft your own deadly traps. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
No I don't plan to use the traps in combat. I have before with shadow dancer levels. You are right. Skill mastery is not needed for this build.
HS. I just like the idea of it. It also works quite nicely with a str based ranger. But as you point out, I will be missing out on creating traps. More rogue levels would be be handy for that. I also like the idea of getting two epic feats for two non-epic feats. Rangers don't have a lot of feats so I have to be careful here.
And if I need skill focus and ESF in both set and disable traps I won't have an excess of feats. _________________ Come on, you sons of b*tches! Do you want to live forever?
Quote: Posted 10/07/07 12:29 (GMT) -- Beetlenut
No I don't plan to use the traps in combat. I have before with shadow dancer levels. You are right. Skill mastery is not needed for this build.
...
And if I need skill focus and ESF in both set and disable traps I won't have an excess of feats.
You don't need SF/ESF since trap skills are take 20 skills, that is you automatically add 20 to your modified score when setting/disabling traps if you are not in combat: 45 and 48 modified ranks in set and disable traps is all you need.
The only "need" for ESFs is if you want to be able to set traps earlier in your career (a legitimate need especially in non DEX builds which have to wait till near the end of their career). _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Thanks for all your help. I may go with skill focus set trap as I found I couldn't set some traps as a lower level Ranger . It just wouldn't be as fun to go through the game without setting traps with more DC than I have.
Off the topic but back to the build leaves me with another question. Why pick blind fight if Rangers can remove invisibility. I haven't used that spell much but when I needed it it worked. _________________ Entropy is a joule thief
Quote: Posted 10/07/07 15:42 (GMT) -- Beetlenut
Thanks for all your help. I may go with skill focus set trap as I found I couldn't set some traps as a lower level Ranger . It just wouldn't be as fun to go through the game without setting traps with more DC than I have.
Off the topic but back to the build leaves me with another question. Why pick blind fight if Rangers can remove invisibility. I haven't used that spell much but when I needed it it worked.
BF biggest advantage is to square an enemy's concealment (that is 50% becomes 25%, 40% becomes 16% and so on). If concealment is due to improved invisibility then invisibility purge will take care of it (removing it altogether) but in all other cases you'll need BF (natural concealment, empty body, concealment spell, SC feats, etc.). _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Thanks again for your clarification. This would probably be more useful than skill focus. I have a weak spot for dual-wield weapons but I don't think I can afford the skills for that in this build.
I still have the problem of not being able to craft traps. I could add two to intelligence later and then start throwing points into craft trap. But my basic stats are already spread quite wide. I wouldn't really then be a str based or a dex based ranger but an int based ranger which is not the most effective build. Or I could drop the HS idea and add more rogue levels. _________________ Entropy is a joule thief
Even with adding to int and having no levels in open lock I won't be able to max out UMD and Listen. Maybe I play rogue too much and am use to having all the skills I want.
On your build you don't have listen or spot. I am quite used to having good listen skills and use it when I play. It is quite useful for setting traps and knowing the right time to start off battles. _________________ Come on, you sons of b*tches! Do you want to live forever?
Quote: Posted 10/07/07 17:33 (GMT) -- Beetlenut
Even with adding to int and having no levels in open lock I won't be able to max out UMD and Listen. Maybe I play rogue too much and am use to having all the skills I want.
On your build you don't have listen or spot. I am quite used to having good listen skills and use it when I play. It is quite useful for setting traps and knowing the right time to start off battles.
Regarding Dual wielding with Ranger you don't need to take any feats if you limit yourself to light armor like Hide: with a little DEX enhancing you'll be "only" two points behind full plate.
Regarding skills: you should take in account what kind of gear is available where you are gonna play the build. The lack of Listen/Spot is covered by True Seeing (either permaproperty or scrolls or whatever) for example. Easily available KD immunity makes Discipline less important (but you still might want to be able to counter Called Shot and Disarm). How much UMD you need depends also on where you play. If you know you are getting Search enhancing gear or you can do with not discovering immediately Epic traps (that is you can wait some seconds till you get a good roll) you can lower Search a little. If Craft Traps enhancing gear is available or if Trap Kits are available for sale, Craft Trap doesn't need that much of a skill point investment if at all. And so on.
Anyhow, seeing how much you love skillpoints, getting more Rogue in might be your best bet. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
If you are making a trapper, dump some points into craft trap. You can carry the components (low weight) and craft the desired trap in the field.
Quote: Posted 10/07/07 18:07 (GMT) -- Bromium
If you are making a trapper, dump some points into craft trap. You can carry the components (low weight) and craft the desired trap in the field.
That's true, but it takes some time to craft traps. I'd rather fill up pages and pages of bags with trap kits, provided the latter are available. In such a case Craft Trap is kinda redundant (and the weight factor is less important in a STR build).
And you can have these bags the quick access bar. I have different bags for different traps on the shift layer. (And no I am usually not so tidy.)
The other problem is skill points. There is just no way I could afford to put levels into craft traps. It looks like I will have to start with Int of 16 or give up the HS concept. If I want Hide, MS, Disc, UMD, Tumble, Search and Listen all at their highest levels I would have to have to. I suppose I could go with INT of 14 and only max out UMD, Tumble, Set and Disable Traps. Hide, MS, Search and Listen could be helped out by spells and/or magic items. _________________ Entropy is a joule thief
Quote: Posted 10/06/07 19:01 (GMT) -- Kail Pendragon 27: Ranger(21): Great Strength II, (STR=22)
What happened to BOE? _________________ I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it...