I was asked to “help”, so this is my contribution.
As many know, I adore the cleric class. I have played just about every class (cept HS), In all my time, I found the cleric to be the most versatile and, for me enjoyable. It is my hope that with this small bit of info, you will gain as I have. And for the record, clerics are strong. If you are only a mod player, most of this will be overkill. I only really played on pw’s that are considered hard, or party servers. The main server I really learned on, was one where builds like the Exalted Sorc, Undead lord, Puff the dragon, or Blade juggernaut were developed. I know, today, there are more elegant ways of achieving the results, but these were the first of their kind, and the server was where they were tested (I briefly (bout 30mins) chatted with cd in a game one time, which was really cool to get his perspective, as short lived as it was).
Now, I wish I could take credit for this, but alas, I cannot. I was taught ingame by a gent, one Stryder Blade. On a server where the final boss requires a forum post for a party time, he did it alone, for the fun of it. So, Stryder, wherever you are, THANKS! I am sure there is a lot to your strategy for the cleric, this by no means is exhaustive. It is just some really good info that makes the cleric the chosen one I have been touting all along!
Concept 1: HERDING
This is a name I came up with to describe what it is that I do. It is a pretty scary idea, especially if you don’t have faith in your cleric, but I assure you, there is a reason.
The cleric has a unique role in nwn. A cleric ISNT a caster. He is a meleer with spell support. There will be many who argue this, that is ok. Clerics do not have the variety of offensive magic that a wiz has, thus, they REQUIRE getting their hands dirty every once and a while. With this in mind, we DO have some offensive magic spells to use, but to use them most efficiently, we need a lot of targets in a relatively small space (I guess wiz/sorcs herd too).
To herd, when you enter an area, you want to spawn the entire area of monsters. The tricky part is to get them all to follow you and not get killed! I DON’T recommend doing this the FIRST time you enter an area. You need to know the layout, and you need to know the monsters before you can herd properly. I say that and laugh, as I am sure dekes, Stryder or Abuck can tell you I rarely listened to my own advice and wound up on the receiving end of a res spell. Thanks guys/gal.
What you are trying to do is get 10-20 or the entire spawn area to come to one location where you will stand in the middle of the bunch and, well, be a cleric. Like I said, this isn’t an easy thing to do. It is a scary process to see 15 umber hulks coming at you, but this is where your faith in the AC and ability of your cleric come in. Practice and you will get the hang of it.
Concept 2: Spell Book Management
This is an area which is missed by a lot of players. I didn’t understand it for the longest time. Basically, with a cleric, you don’t look at the metamagic feats for what they do, but more, what they offer. Yes, extend is a very nice feat, and EVERY cleric should have it, but what does it do vs what does it offer. Extend doubles the duration of your spell (cept for div fav  ) In this case, they are the same. In my very humble opinion, if you are a cleric without extend, EVEN if you are lv 40 pure, you are short changing yourself.
The next important one is Empower. It increases the output of a spell. WHAT it offers is to cast a spell 2 slots higher. Again, if you have the room, it is more desirable than Max spell because you cant maximize the boss killer (I wont give that away yet).
Max spell is good, but if I were to take a 3rd meta feat, it would be either silent or still. WHAT! Why on earth would a cleric look at still? It is for what it offers! While extend offers one slot higher, it is limited to what spells are offered. Still or silent offer ALL the cleric spells one slot higher. I tend to lean toward silent, but if I am a bard/.clerc/rdd or pm, I would go still if charisma was 11 or so. Either is a good 3rd choice. I have done, what I would term a caster cleric (I know what I said), but my intent was to use spells more than melee, I would take max. That was for the necro spell to slaughter undead en-mass.
The idea is to leave yourself options for spells. For example, if I was going to a major undead server, I would take max. That gives me 4 slots of undead to death (normal, silent, empower, max). That is options! Silent gives you 2 slots of heal/harm (normal/ silent). See where I am going?
Edited By avado on 01/16/09 22:47
Concept 3: Harm
And for undeads. Heal. This is really a rookie spell. Yes, it is a great way to take out certain things, but, despite what people think, it IS resistable. Many a time, I have cast this spell and had it resisted, even with my cleric/hierophant (prc with +10 to all DC). So, if in the extreme case it can be resisted, it isn’t a good spell to rely on.
We use harm for those areas where the experience is good, but the monsters are long and tedious to take out. You know the 1000 hp + monsters where you have 10 of them ontop of you? I have nightmares of umber hulks all around us on a hill side and missing a harm here and there.. Harm should be used to speed xp, not to rely on for anything else. LOL yes, harm is the lazy man’s leveling tool, and I am a lazy man at times (ask my wife )
Concept 4: IMPLOSION
K, YES, implosion gets +3 to spell DC, innate. Big deal. I originally did my Beest build (the ultimate cleric listed in prc section), and he had a 46 dc with implode. 46 for those who are wondering, with 20 base wisdom is CRAZY! It is higher than you can get in vanilla nwn. I didn’t use the spell but one time to try out. I found my strategies below to be much more effective, though, if you like the spell, use it. Remember its an Evocation spell so spell foci in that.
Concept 5: Cleric’s role
A cleric should be right up front. You are in Full plate (at least you should be) with a tower shield. You have +10 minimum ab boost, ac boosts. Why on earth would you be behind “healing”? When I speak of this, realize I very rarely have higher than 10 in constitution. Clerics can boost con, so why waste the points.
I have played both wisdom clerics and strength clerics, and while I can appreciate a charisma cleric, I have never played one. In my view, going higher than 20 wisdom base is a waste. Yes, having a higher DC is nice, but remember, you are not really a caster. I prefer strength clerics. There is something oh so sexy about a cleric that has level 9 spells AND devastating critical. That is my opinion, but a high strength is best. Why? You are a cleric with ¾ ab. This means we need all the ab we can get (the +10 min goes ONTOP of the ab!).
So you are out in front, first to the scene. Remember to buff first! LOL
Those are really the 4 things that I ingrain in my playing with clerics. If I cut anything short, let me know and I will elaborate the best I can. So, the above is the mindset, how do you play a cleric?
BUFFING
You have to get your own feel for what a cleric can do for you. I have found that I only really use Divine Favor in the level 1 spells. Sometimes, entropic shield, or shield of faith (it ONLY has +5 deflection, so a ring of prot +6 negates it). The lv 2 buffs I usually extend (lv 3). So my spellbook has lv 1 and 2 slots as divine favor (up to as many as 18 at a time – yes its that good).
I have never fallen in love with Bless, aid or prayer. I have used prayer abit cuz its lv 3 iirc (yes I am doing this all from memory). Battletide is another that is decent, especially extended. And of course, darkfire, greater magic weapon, and magic vestment *2 (armor and shield).
Divine Power… the BEST spell in the game. I understand it has been tweaked downward. No matter. It gives you an AB boost which is essential. Stryder, when I pointed this out to him, he actually designed a cleric with 12 bab (cleric rdd) that had +7 to ab when he cast DP! LOL It is THAT good. Today, I tend to lean toward 4 apr, 16 bab cleric where it will add +4 ab. It is up to you.
It is important to look at durations. Extend DP is great cuz it allows you to fight more than one battle before it wears out, where DF has 1 turn regardless, hence the excessive number I carry. The real fun is to try to get the number of DP to match the DF. I always seem to have more DP cuz they last longer. If you are bored, this may be a way to adjust your spell book. DF is cast usually every battle, and I always am watching my buffs cuz sometimes you may need a recast in the middle of a combat!
So what are my tactics? Thanks to onion eater, here is a quote from him regarding the strategies.
Quote: Sent 01/16/09 09:21 (GMT) by onion eater
Oh yeah. Totally thrilled ... I've taken out some bosses way outside my level range w/ the spell, but always through gross repetition. Can't wait to put down four or five at a time. Heck, why not get some scrolls involved too? IIRC, they're pretty cheap, and not a totally worthless caster level … soon enough I'll have another cleric ready to take advantage of the tactic. Cool stuff.
I cut out some of the stuff that were irrelevant to the topic (and some spoiler stuff!). thanks buddy.
These are best taught in game, like how Stryder taught me, but I don’t play anymore, so.. i sincerely hope you can glean the jist of what i am saying here...
Mass Kill Strategy
This is the one where you Herd. For this, you need to use Storm of Vengence (SOV) and for non-undeadies, Firestorm. I typically had 6-7 SOV and same firestorms memd before entering an area. The first step is to herd all the baddies to an area where they can see you and continue to move towards you. It takes practice, but it is well worth it. I mastered this strategy in a Golem area on the mountain, and had as many as 20 golems coming at me at one time (they are immune to crits, which is why I took this area to master). In normal gameplay, all crit immune, this area would take some time to clear out, up to 20 mins with a party. In herding, I had them all in one area.
Make a stand (I envision Gandalf in fellowship, “This far and no farther!”) and WAIT. Wait for them to come to you and start swinging. You need to have some AC to make this work, but at any level, a cleric should have no AC problems. Once they are surrounding you, I cast an SOV. Once that is away, I would cast all the rest of my SOV, SOV is a wonderful spell. It does alittle damage, and stuns, but it does alittle damage. Having 6 SOV’s means the monsters in the area have to roll 6 times per damage type to not be stunned. This goes on for 10 rounds. As soon as SOV is done, some near you will be stunned, allowing you to cast Firestorm in rapid succession. All 6! You can hold back firestorms but you should only start this process when they are almost upon you. NEVER WASTE (another cleric motto). After this, you may have a few left, but the entire area is done in under 5 mins.
For undeads, it is alittle different. On the mountain, there is an area called Epic Undead. Most people HATE that area. I kept my port to here for about a month, I loved it so much. I actually went here at lv 28 where most parties go here at lv 33 or more AND STRUGGLE. The strategy is similar. Because Mass Heal doesn’t have the area of effect that Firestorm has, you don’t want to go and collect the entire area. That would be suicide. I typically herded about 10 epic undeads (for those from the mountain they didn’t believe me until they saw it). Now, lay down an SOV. Then maybe 3 more (not as many) you don’t need as much as mass heal is different.. As they surround you, cast a mass heal. Then ATTACK the wounded ones asap. The undeadies I fought had a “heal” so I didnt want to waste 3 mass heals and they simply heal. They will typically have 4 hp, so there shouldn’t be much work to do. Then recast mass and repeat with your mace. It is slower, but they are undeads! I guess you could use firestorm, but mass heal vs undeads is WAY better, imo.
In summary, the whole idea is to get them closing in on you. I always had the feeling that I wasn’t gonna survive! And then I did. I always found that, unless your party knew exactly what you were doing, this strategy works best solo. Now, if something happens and you die… you are stuck! LOL Experiment and have fun. This strategy works well. Like a mentor of mine says, it isn’t the method but the man if the strategy doesn’t work for you
Edited By avado on 01/16/09 22:52
THE BOSS KILLER!
Yes, I am here. The boss killer. I thanked Stryder everyday for showing me this one! It is that good. On the mountain, there was this little boss, frost goblin king, who was for the lv 29 quest. If you weren’t a sorc/wiz, you usually waited until 34 or so to do the quest, and then, ONLY with at least one other, and hopefully more. I am not certain what exactly it was about him, all I know is that you couldn’t hit him (even figher.wms had a struggle) and he had heals so it was a LONNNG battle. This is the guy I was taught this strategy on (the one onion brags about above!).
The spell is……….. Blade Barrier! Ta da!
WHAT?? I can see your frustration! This is the big spell avado talks so much about, BB! Are you serious? I know cuz I said the same exact thing, and YES, I am totally serious. BB is the number one boss killer spell in nwn and there is really nothing that can be done to stop it.
But BB does only a pitiful amount of damage? Yes it does. So? What has been my strategy up until now? Mass damage, right? Well, cast a bunch of BB’s at one time! Sure. You can do that. What happens? People do this and they lay a blade here, one here, one there and so on. The target then steps on the blades and does a save. IF he makes it, no damage. Hmm.. not too good. Or is it? What happens if every time the target crosses the blade he does, not 1 but 12 saves? What are the odds NOW that he will save? A LOT less, right? Right and here is where the power lies. It isn’t in the spell itself, but the way you cast the spell. Our mindset is to make the bastards roll as many times per step as you can (no this is NOT a pvp strategy! Lmao. I did it one time for fun and drakkon just laughed!).
Here is the secret: hold the cursor over an area and cast BB. THEN DON’T MOVE THE cursor and cast another bb or another 12! I usually have bb, ext or silent BB and Empowered BB for boss fights, up to 18 or so. You don’t really need more than 8 BB, but you can do more. When you have cast the BB’s, you should see only ONE line of blades. They will look fuller than one line, but it is only ONE line.
Now, get the boss’ attention and have him follow you through the blades. EVERY step he does in the blades he is rollin 8 times! Or however many you put down. This will not kill him (if it does in one pass, shame on you!). The next part is really technical. Keep him running in or through the BB as much as possible (every step he is rolling vs damage). He will die! Like onion says above, he is taking out bosses above his level! There is no AC worry, no AB worries.
There is one danger, spell resistance. I have seen a boss resist BB for a bit, iirc. I know Kail or Finn will correct this for me, as in this I am going entirely by memory. But I do recall seeing a boss resist the BB for a time. If I am wrong that is cool. It is just something to be aware of.
Prefered running patterns.. LOL I like doing S shapes through the blades. It is especially nice to run the lengths of the blades. Side to side is good too. Remember, the whole idea is to make him roll for damage. _____________
So, there it is. .avado’s guide to clerics. I am sure that there are things you can argue against. SO what. I actually LIVED this in game for several years vs some of the hardest areas, solo, and lived. I was taught by the best, and now I pass it on. I really didn’t want to do it! I had shared this with a few in game and none could understand what was doing. I hope this helps clear up their thoughts, as well as brings you some understanding of this versatile class. _________________
WOW! I must admit I only looked through this topic but it seems impressive. Thank you for posting this, supreme lord of the Clerics of yore, master avado. _________________ Ghaash agh akûl - Nazgûl skoiz Mirdautas vras! Karn ghaamp agh nût Shaut Manwe quiinubat gukh
Summoning - Mirdautas Vras
That's pretty cool avado. Thanks for the tips!
For the record, I am totally sold on the WIS cleric over the STR cleric, though I've played far more of the latter (because, you know, they're cool...). I should say that I avoid Dev Crit, and that, I suppose, would change things, but the cleric already has everything it needs both in terms of AB and damage. While ordinarily I am a huge fan of STR damage, the cleric just doesn't need it. I'll take the improved DC. Yay piles of SoV to immobilize the crowds!
Again, I don't mean to imply that a STR cleric doesn't... er.. .PWN All (I think I'm screwing that up), just that, in the end, in my experience, the pure WIS cleric is yet more awesome. It's not a huge difference though. Most of the same strategies will work for either version. I just feel like the pure WIS version gains more.
Also, yes, BB is a stupid powerful spell for NWN. I just love it how the AI will walk right through it time and time again.... "Oww that hurts!" Six seconds later "Oww! that hurts!" *Sigh* Best is when someone seems to get stuck right on top of one. Sometimes it just gets too easy.
Nice write up. I thought there was more to the BOSS KILLER though, since I thought blade barrier was a tactic everyone used, and then ran in circles. Personally, I don't find that less lame than Harm, but that's me.
Also, running in s-shapes IN the BB will kill you too, won't it? Except if the server rules are set below hardcore, but since you describe to be so hard it can't be. Does BB really not kill the caster? It did on the server I played, so I had to run around it letting the bad guys take shortcuts. Which made it tougher in constricted areas. I really think it does half damage vs succesful saves too. All this from the top of my head though.
Very good posts. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Quote: Posted 01/17/09 16:04 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane I noticed how you need "a lot of the same" to play in a PW. and maybe that's why you'd choose Silent or Still spell, but for me at least they don't work.
If you don't mind me asking, what do you mean by that?
Grim, i agree with you. I only put this out now to keep in Finn's good book (see the top quote). i always thought this was common knowledge so it always confused me when people would say that they dont understand how powerful the cleric is. Yes, it is cheese. I ignored BB for years because i thought "who would fall for that", well it turns out, bosses!
There is a funny thing that occurs when you stack BB's like i say. Yes, they can be resisted at first. But after a time they arent anymore. I am not talkin of 1 bb. i am talkin of 8! Every time you cross the stack he rolls for 8 spells! DO the math on that. Is it cheese? sure, what in nwn isnt cheese? Exploit? You talk of timestop. You realize that that spell is inactive on most servers cuz it has a tendency to lag the crap out of things. I have yet to actually see time stop cast cuz it has never been active on any server i played. What server or mod would EVER remove BB? It is so innocent as to escape notice by most.
Like i said above to Grim, i thought all this was common knowledge. It was you that said I love clerics ONLY for Harm! remember...
Quote: Posted 01/15/09 22:15 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
1- I have played a Cleric, I know they are awesome, but delaying the acquisition of it will not make the build unplayable (just less cheap ). If you want you could go Monk 4 / SD 4 / Cleric 12 (not necessarily in that order) and then you'll have your beloved Harm. I just think it's more fun to play without it. It's not fair, I think, to use such cheap tactics (go in Invisible to catch the boss Flat-Footed, buffed with Bless, Aid, Extended Prayer, Extended Divine Power, Extended Divine Favor, Bull's Strength "god this is cheap" and make ur unmissable touch attack then kill the damned boss with one hit of your Darkfire, Greater Magic Weapon MAX BAB next attack while you get missed by all with your 50% concealment from Improved Invisibility and high AC with Shield of Faith, Magic Vestment and an eventual Haste Dodge AC bonus with activated Improved Expertise mode). "UFF it tires me to even mention all of that IMBANESS!" I may not know all the combos, but I know a few
It was that, and FInn's taunts that made me realize that maybe, just maybe, what i thought everyone knew, wasnt true! Maybe, we should actually share the way we play a class so that others can come and actually learn something of value.
maxi, as long as you continue to talk about this game from the perspective of a mod, you will never understand why people dont appreciate what you have to say. I can tell you are a great thinker on this game. The way mods are made doesnt force growth in you though. In order for you to really come out and understand what a person coming to our guild is looking for, you have to play a pw.
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 01/26/09 01:17
I was wrong about the power of a cleric in an unmodified setting. I have been playing Athas Reborn (where all the above have been nerfed in some way) for so long that I have forgotten what a lack of balance feels like.
Despite that, all good stuff Avado. This is good enough that it should be stickied here; Click Here
Quote: Posted 01/17/09 19:17 (GMT) -- avado
There is a funny thing that occurs when you stack BB's like i say. Yes, they can be resisted at first. But after a time they arent anymore. I am not talkin of 1 bb. i am talkin of 8!
I take it the mobs don't have 50/+1 reduction to try to really lessen the impact of things like that? And/or physical damage immunity?
Quote: maxi, as long as you continue to talk about this game from the perspective of a mod, you will never understand why people dont appreciate what you have to say. I can tell you are a great thinker on this game. The way mods are made doesnt force growth in you though. In order for you to really come out and understand what a person coming to our guild is looking for, you have to play a pw.
I'd somewhat disagree. Both Aielund when I did it originally (one of my first non-Bioware mods) and then Saleron's Gambit made me rethink a lot of stuff. Stuff on Greyhawk and World of Caenyr (both PWs) have made me think *more*, but claiming that mods can't make you rethink isn't entirely true.
Quote: But you are suggesting builds from a lv 12 mod! How is that fair?
For the record, he's a level 12 character in a mod that goes to level 35-37 by the end. And particularly in the latter half, the difficultly ramps up. He's in a mod that actually HAS rest restrictions and where you can't rest everywhere as well. These alone are drastic shifts from the original campaigns, for him.
Edited By Magical Master on 01/17/09 21:56
For the record, both Silent and Still spell have valid uses outside of "loading up" on the same spells. Then again, there's nothing tactically "wrong" about loading up on certain spells.
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 01/26/09 01:18
Quote: Posted 01/17/09 22:04 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
I mean that I don't feel the need to take either feat so that I can spread the same spell (whether it is DP, BB, or any other) across four spell levels in my spellbook. Do you understand me now?
You can't empower or maximize Divine Power as far as I know And yes, I know you're extending it. I was thinking of a few things such as Mass Heal which can be silenced for even more heals if you think you'll need them, as an example. Or Silence Firestorm if SoV isn't practical for a certain reason.
There are other tricks as well, obviously, but that's one of the more obvious ones.
Oh, and don't let avado rile you up. He spouts insulting hyperbole 90% of the time, but he actually usually has a least one good point or two per page of ranting.
Quote: Posted 01/17/09 22:04 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
I mean that I don't feel the need to take either feat so that I can spread the same spell (whether it is DP, BB, or any other) across four spell levels in my spellbook. Do you understand me now?
You can't empower or maximize Divine Power as far as I know And yes, I know you're extending it. I was thinking of a few things such as Mass Heal which can be silenced for even more heals if you think you'll need them, as an example. Or Silence Firestorm if SoV isn't practical for a certain reason.
There are other tricks as well, obviously, but that's one of the more obvious ones.
Oh, and don't let avado rile you up. He spouts insulting hyperbole 90% of the time, but he actually usually has a least one good point or two per page of ranting.
Yeah I know DP can't be Maximized and Empowered, what a shame huh? Imagine if a Cleric with 8 STR casts DP, gaining 10 STR. He could get 15 in an Empowered one going over the cap! can't get much cheaper than that!!
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 01/26/09 01:20
Just to set the record straight on a few things...
SP mods can be challenging. They can be stupid easy too. PWs can be challenging. They can be stupid easy too. I almost entirely play online, but that isn't to say that one needs to, by any stretch of the imagination. There's a pretty decent argument that NWN works better in SP (though for my money, the small group + DM is where it's at). In any event, while the OCs are certainly a cakewalk, so are plenty of PWs.
One can play PWs offline. And, actually, I think that's a pretty decent suggestion for Max. I mean, I wouldn't drop Aielund by any stretch of the imagination, now would I suggest that anyone play exclusively offline PWs (...uh...), but it might be fun to try a different, far less linear, style of play, and there are some excellent PWs available for download (*cough* WoG *cough*).
A wiz/cleric is not a cleric. It's a wiz cleric. It has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion.
Metamagic is hugely useful to a dedicated cleric, and that's just true, whether or not one is able to use it properly. If you can't make good use of it, well, then either give up, or try harder. Doesn't change the fact that it rocks.
It is very, very easy to be misinterpreted when the writer is using a second (or third, or fourth, or...) language. I, personally, find it very amusing at times, but it gets so simple for arguments to be made based on mistakes of description and comprehension. In any event, I would suggest that one refrain from ever taking offense, and find solace in the simple ability to ignore. Yeah, yeah, I know, I should probably take my own advice more often. Again, doesn't make it any less true...
Uh... too many other things... Yah. Go team cleric!
Quote: SP mods can be challenging. They can be stupid easy too. PWs can be challenging. They can be stupid easy too. I almost entirely play online, but that isn't to say that one needs to, by any stretch of the imagination. There's a pretty decent argument that NWN works better in SP (though for my money, the small group + DM is where it's at). In any event, while the OCs are certainly a cakewalk, so are plenty of PWs.
One can play PWs offline. And, actually, I think that's a pretty decent suggestion for Max. I mean, I wouldn't drop Aielund by any stretch of the imagination, now would I suggest that anyone play exclusively offline PWs (...uh...), but it might be fun to try a different, far less linear, style of play, and there are some excellent PWs available for download (*cough* WoG *cough*).
onion, in fact I have downloaded World of Greyhawk (CEP 2.1) but I can't open the module. I tried to load and the same errormessage I used to get when trying to open Aielund appears: "Missing required .hak file" Any idea which file it's talking about this time?
Take it EZ!
Does it list the hak-file missing? Do you have the needed CEP? Is there an erf in your hak folder on accident (which happened to me, heh).
Wow, nice strategies avado. I've done some herding myself but not at such a pro scale.
Blade Barrier, man, I even forget that spell exists, but it deals pretty neat damage, 20d6 is way too high for even a Dwarven Defender, it can actually breach through Epic Warding. I have just one question to this extraordinary boss killer spell: How well does it work against caster bosses? I mean, if he's a caster you'll get killed long before you can make him walk around a line in the floor. I guess you've played such circumstances and you'll know how to adapt the boss killer, but I can't think how to do it with owning precision.
I just read on the wiki about the spell that Blade Barrier used to avoid Evasion and Improved Evasion before version 1.69, I wonder if it will keep working that good.
Quote: by Maximilian Kane I mean that I don't feel the need to take either feat so that I can spread the same spell (whether it is DP, BB, or any other) across four spell levels in my spellbook. Do you understand me now?
Max, if you have one spell that rules above all else, why wouldn't you want to spam it? I use Divine Favor as if it was Flurry of Blows, meaning, casting it at the sight of enemies, which seems to be the same avado does. You need a lot of Divine Favors per day in order to make that much buffing enjoyable, lesser buffs can be rendered useless if it takes a slot that Divine Favor can take.
Quote: by Maximilian Kane With a higher-level character comes a higher-level strategy.
Not exactly, you have one strategy all along, but the full version includes leveling up. You won't find a super-high AB/AC/HP boss when you're level 15 in a PW. It won't happen because in "growth levels" it's plainly unfair to place extreme bosses, anyone would wait a few levels before fighting them. The boss killer strategy is obviously not for when you're level 10, it's for bosses you'd have trouble fighting at the "estimated level you should fight him" or for the overpowered ones which are obviously fought at level 30+. The thing is maxing your amount of Blade Barriers is done in pre-epic levels, ending at level 20 when they reach their max damage, so you can beat super bosses way before schedule and that way it practically doesn't depends on strategy or level, that's what you're not getting IMO, so stop repeating "it depends". The Cleric is still a great class for leveling up, that's the trick of Herding.
Quote: by Maximilian Kane Mephistopheles is immune to it. His DR surpasses even the Empowered Blade Barrier damage.
There is no DR that can beat 20d6, there simply isn't. Damage Immunity could do it though, I don't remember if he had any, but I sure remember I've killed him very easily in melee with builds far weaker in AB/AC/spells than a Cleric.
Quote: by Maximilian Kane In a world where most bosses had hig SR, your tactics wouldn't work... What you call easier, I call different.
True, but have you even played those high magical environments? I despise them, they shouldn't exist. I've seen environments where 80 AB and 90 AC are low, there are PvP +20 magic places where everyone has AC over 100 plus some DR and SR, and your best build ends with almost the same stats as your worst. How do you kill a monster with impossible AC, SR and regeneration? No build can do there IMO, we're not talking about them because we don't play them, they ain't fun.
This is not the proper place to be saying avado is wrong. He sure was wrong suggesting Cleric all the time on your builds, and of course you don't want to play the same build over and over, I don't do that either, but the strategiies posted here are worth an applause. Way to go Stryder Blade, thanks for sharing it avado. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 01/26/09 01:27
Quote: Posted 01/19/09 00:55 (GMT) -- Thaxll'ssyllia There is no DR that can beat 20d6, there simply isn't. Damage Immunity could do it though,
50/+1 reduction and 50% physical damage immunity would reduce a maximized blade barrier to 10 damage if the boss fails.
50/+1 reduction and 25% physical damage immunity would reduce a maximized blade barrier to 40 damage if the both fails.
Neither would cause damage if the boss succeeds.
50/+1 reduction and 20% immunity would mean a boss wouldn't ever take damage from Blade Barrier if he makes his save (and autofail is ideally turned off) and would probably have the least impact.
THanks Thax. Your applause means more to me than you will ever know... and keep it quiet that i came to you with a Druid spell question!!! oh ***!
Yes, i apologize for sayin clerics are the only answer! Of course they arent. I have only come that way cuz after 5 years, havin tried every combo that appealed to me, i found the C the only one enjoyable to play thru to 40 (on a server that caps xp at 150 per! think on that getin to 40!). Like i always try to say in those annoying "what is the uberst" topics, it isnt the build, but HOW you play that matters. I wouldnt want to go with a cleric vs Thax' druids! Actually, i wouldnt want to pvp ANYONE in this guild! lol i suck pvp. it never interested me. I would rather design and take out the server pvm than worry bout some tactic from a character designed SPECIFICLLY to kill ME. ah, im an old man and never got pvP!! lol _________________
I agree with avado, Storm of Vengeance rocks, it stuns great, it can deal heavy damage over time, and Evasion doesn't work against it, you should try it in your strategy as well, too bad it's conjura
Quote: by avado Actually, i wouldnt want to pvp ANYONE in this guild!
PvP can be very fun with a good PvP server. I enjoy the ones that make games such as team capture the flag or king of the hill, it makes me feel the game as if it were D&D Unreal Tournament and makes the killing livelier.
One on one just to say who has the best build is not my style either, but you shouldn't run from PvP all the time. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Quote: There is no DR that can beat 20d6, there simply isn't. Damage Immunity could do it though, I don't remember if he had any, but I sure remember I've killed him very easily in melee with builds far weaker in AB/AC/spells than a Cleric.
All I'm saying is I cast Bigby's Crushing Hand and Empowered Blade Barrier at him, but instead of a blue positive number coming constantly out of him, all I saw was an orange-yellowish number 0, indicating that although he was being affected by the spells he was not taking any damage. That doesn't make him hard to kill, I'm just pointing out that I used this combo and it didn't work. If it was DR or Physical Immunity that prevented the damage, I really don't know.
Quote: Max, if you have one spell that rules above all else, why wouldn't you want to spam it? I use Divine Favor as if it was Flurry of Blows, meaning, casting it at the sight of enemies, which seems to be the same avado does. You need a lot of Divine Favors per day in order to make that much buffing enjoyable, lesser buffs can be rendered useless if it takes a slot that Divine Favor can take.
Sorry for not replying this on the previous post, I was distracted. To me 8 DF (3 extended) are more enough, at least in the mods I play, I usually rest before using every single one of them anyway. And I don't really use them if the battle can be won without too much trouble, generally save them for bosses and tougher enemies.
There's nothing wrong with stocking up on one spell. All I'm saying is I wouldn't waste a feat to be able to do it unless it was absolutely necessary. Silent and Still spells allow you to be able to cast EVERY SPELL as one higher level. The thing is that Extend Spell also does that, but to a limited selection of spells, so these feats would only apply to the non-extendable ones. It can be useful if you rely on spells a lot or if there's a critical spell that you need to have memorized as many times as possible and it's not extendable, but that doesn't quite apply for the build I was talking about.
Quote: Posted 01/19/09 03:26 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane That doesn't make him hard to kill, I'm just pointing out that I used this combo and it didn't work. If it was DR or Physical Immunity that prevented the damage, I really don't know.
Meph has 20 physical resistance and 25/+5 reduction. He also probably made the saving throw, so he'd take 20d6 (70 average) x 1.5 (105) x 0.5 (52.5) damage. He will absorb 45 of it. So if you had a slightly lower than average blade barrier roll...
Does it list the hak-file missing? Do you have the needed CEP? Is there an erf in your hak folder on accident (which happened to me, heh).
here's a transcript of the error message:
"Could not load module Missing required HAK file Check your log file for a list of missing hak packs"
How do you "check your log file"? sry for the ignorance!
Take it EZ!
Look for a folder in your NWN folder called "logs".
Quote: Posted 01/19/09 20:21 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane onion, I only rest after at least 4 encounters (average to tough ones). In Aielund you can rest every five hours (10 minutes in-game I think). What is the average resting time in the PWs you play?
World of Greyhawk is either 16 minutes, I think. Might be 8, not sure on the time concept there, but it should be one of those two.
From now on be excellent to each other. This holds true for everyone. _________________
Quote: Posted 09/25/06 11:58:10 (GMT) by xitooner
I find its better to be flexible, THINK, and know your enemy.
and here is where the power lies. It isn’t in the spell itself, but the way you cast the spell. Our mindset is to make the bastards roll as many times per step as you can (no this is NOT a pvp strategy! Lmao. I did it one time for fun and drakkon just laughed!).
For the record, I am totally sold on the WIS cleric over the STR cleric, though I've played far more of the latter (because, you know, they're cool...). I should say that I avoid Dev Crit, and that, I suppose, would change things, but the cleric already has everything it needs both in terms of AB and damage. While ordinarily I am a huge fan of STR damage, the cleric just doesn't need it. I'll take the improved DC. Yay piles of SoV to immobilize the crowds!
can't get much cheaper than that!!
Actually, i wouldnt want to pvp ANYONE in this guild! lol i suck pvp. it never interested me. I would rather design and take out the server pvm than worry bout some tactic from a character designed SPECIFICLLY to kill ME. ah, im an old man and never got pvP!! lol