It has been a looooong time since I have played but some friends are putting something together and I might actually have the time.
Here's the skinny:
2 classes only. No prestige classes. Pure old school (the DM mentioned "rolling up" characters)
High magic server
I am not very good at managing a spellbook and lean toward sneakers. When I last played, I had a lot of fun with a modified Pacifist Minstrel.
No desire to run a tank.
I was thinking about a simple Bard/Rogue 25/15, dedicated archer but am open to anything (cept a tank).
There is not a healer in the group yet so I was considering a cleric as well. (Please don't flail me for calling a cleric a healer ;P) But again, not so good at managing the spells.
Any one have some of these they never posted because that 3rd class *cough* tumble dump *cough* made all the difference?
2 classes only. No prestige classes. Pure old school (the DM mentioned "rolling up" characters)
High magic server
There is not a healer in the group yet so I was considering a cleric as well. (Please don't flail me for calling a cleric a healer ;P) But again, not so good at managing the spells.
Any one have some of these they never posted because that 3rd class *cough* tumble dump *cough* made all the difference?
Dude, with restrictions like that, go ONE class. I have a challenge for you. Read my guide in the guild. Read Thax's druid guide (cuz he has GOOD info there for clerics too, if you read it right...) Then play a cleric PURE (with maybe 5-6 fighter levls for Epic weapon SPeicalization. Put wisdom to 19 as you level and ALL your rest to strength. The challenge, memorize NO heal spells (unless you are fighting Undeads). mem ONLY one buff spell each (i list the most useful ones, but in high magic, you only need Div fav and Div power cuz you should have +10 in Epic lvls anyway). And NEVER offer to heal your party. NEVER offer to spell raise your party (grab Rez Rods!! Much betta And if you still need help, PM me. I will teach you the mentality so you will be the *** KICKER, not the healer.
3 classes arent necessary. 4 in nwn2 actually made things stupid for me. The spellbook thing is easy with hot keys. Trust me. IF you get it right, you will have the most fun and be THE player in the group.
And IF you got Dev crit... sigh. A GOD, literally!
But dont take my word for it. Go do the bard (cuz bards, esp pure bards, literally ARE those ones relegated to heals and singing and stayin clear of battle!).. but what do i know
Quote: Posted 10/07/09 02:49 (GMT) -- avado
The challenge, memorize NO heal spells (unless you are fighting Undeads).
Except his group apparently needs a healer. It's possible to both have some heals AND still be a melee monsters.
Quote: mem ONLY one buff spell each (i list the most useful ones, but in high magic, you only need Div fav and Div power cuz you should have +10 in Epic lvls anyway).
He hasn't specified exactly what he means by high magic, but having more than 1 Divine Favor/Prayer/Battletide/Divine Power might still be useful depending on resting limits. And having Aid for party members as well as Darkfiring their weapons as a minimum will do wonders.
Quote: And NEVER offer to heal your party. NEVER offer to spell raise your party (grab Rez Rods!! Much betta
You're assuming ressurection rods or indeed any item with raise dead or ressurrection will be available. We don't know the situation. But if they're available, then yes, memorizing raise dead/ressurrection is a bit of a waste.
Quote: And if you still need help, PM me. I will teach you the mentality so you will be the *** KICKER, not the healer.
It's possible to be a monster in melee and still be able to heal your party as needed.
The challenge, memorize NO heal spells (unless you are fighting Undeads).
note: CHALLENG
Except his group apparently needs a healer. It's possible to both have some heals AND still be a melee monsters. My playing style has always been, DONT ever heal another cuz they are too lazy to do it for themselves. This is how clerics got the idea of being a healer and it erks me to no end!!
Quote: mem ONLY one buff spell each (i list the most useful ones, but in high magic, you only need Div fav and Div power cuz you should have +10 in Epic lvls anyway).
He hasn't specified exactly what he means by high magic, but having more than 1 Divine Favor/Prayer/Battletide/Divine Power might still be useful depending on resting limits. And having Aid for party members as well as Darkfiring their weapons as a minimum will do wonders. now it is clear as to why you dont understand clerics at all!! AND, clerics make their own gear, so they are always high magic!
Quote: And NEVER offer to heal your party. NEVER offer to spell raise your party (grab Rez Rods!! Much betta
You're assuming ressurection rods or indeed any item with raise dead or ressurrection will be available. We don't know the situation. But if they're available, then yes, memorizing raise dead/ressurrection is a bit of a waste. if rez rods or raise scrolls werent available, i STILL didnt worry about it! If people think they can depend on your rez vs depend on your spells and blade, they do assinine things! I dont support stupidity [/b}
Quote: And if you still need help, PM me. I will teach you the mentality so you will be the *** KICKER, not the healer.
It's possible to be a monster in melee and still be able to heal your party as needed. (b) i guess if you miss the whole point.
The point ISNT to argue. The point is to CHALLENGE his ideas about what is POSSIBLE! It took me a LONG time to get to where i am in my views, playing ALOT of different builds, listening to TONS of different ideas. In the end, the most powerful class, bare NONE, in nwn is cleric, as far as MY playing style goes! I know for a fact that others cannot do what i did. They dont understand, and thats why other classes exist! This was to help this poster to let go of his preconcieved ideas to MAYBE learn something.
In the end though, he doesnt like spellbook management, and hotkeys are too tricky. SO clerics are a moot point anyway _________________
We don't know his situation, so such a challenge may be a death warrant for his group.
Quote: My playing style has always been, DONT ever heal another cuz they are too lazy to do it for themselves. This is how clerics got the idea of being a healer and it erks me to no end!!
What makes you assume they have more available than maybe Cure Critical Wound pots? If they have unlimited Heal potions, then sure, he doesn't need to heal, but I'm guessing that's not the case due to him specifically mentioning they don't have a healer yet.
Quote: now it is clear as to why you dont understand clerics at all!! AND, clerics make their own gear, so they are always high magic!
Oh? Do tell.
And clerics can't make +10 weapons like you seemed to imply.
Quote: (b) if rez rods or raise scrolls werent available, i STILL didnt worry about it! If people think they can depend on your rez vs depend on your spells and blade, they do assinine things! I dont support stupidity [/b}
Because no one has ever autofailed an instant death effect or whatever, right? Or taken a few bad crits and died before you can reach them.
Quote: The point ISNT to argue. The point is to CHALLENGE his ideas about what is POSSIBLE!
It took me a LONG time to get to where i am in my views, playing ALOT of different builds, listening to TONS of different ideas. In the end, the most powerful class, bare NONE, in nwn is cleric, as far as MY playing style goes! I know for a fact that others cannot do what i did. They dont understand, and thats why other classes exist! This was to help this poster to let go of his preconcieved ideas to MAYBE learn something.
And you claiming that he should never heal, buff, or rez his group as a cleric is hyperbolic, as I've mentioned you tend to be
I agree that a cleric is far more than a healer and indeed can be one of the most powerful melee characters. They also have a lot of tricks up their sleeve.
Quote: In the end though, he doesnt like spellbook management, and hotkeys are too tricky. SO clerics are a moot point anyway
True.
*sigh* I knew that bit about healers was a mistake.
PW info -- only IGMS is nerfed, +20 weaponry, +6 gear, +4ish ability boost items, the requisite forge for custom gear (regen, vamp regen, freedom, haste, immun items, keen, extra damage types, you all know the deal), only pick pocket and dev crit disabled, alignment restrictions on classes, ready access to any scrolls, have seen +12 weapon in a drop at lower level, can rest every 2 IG hours....
I surely know how to hotkey, I just try to keep too many spells in my inventory for flexibility. I have read the guides and suggestions and have spent an embarrasingly large amount of time reading the builds. I am a fairly good builder utilizing 3 classes but always use a prestige class.
When using a cleric, I do heal and buff the group as much as possible. Not looking to leave a smoking crater whenever I leave an area or be the man all the time. I know how to do that a few ways and do when I solo and/or grind. Yes, I have also used avado's techniques to great success and have a couple successful iconic builds in other classes.
This project is for a primarily RP campaign that will have multiple DMs at set times every week. Eventhough this is a RP build, it never hurts to have great stats. I do not want to get stuck with a character that gets whomped and is too much like work to play.
As I always have thought, it is possible to RP a character designed to wipe the floor with enemies but throwing down with some willy nilly RP character is suicide. I am not a big fan of getting dead and watching everyone else killify stuff.
Sooooooooo, let's start over...
-- Looking for a bard heavy build in the setting described above with limitations of 2 classes and no prestige classes. -- Would prefer a dedicated archer for RP purposes. -- As in the original post NO DESIRE TO RUN A TANK -- Does not have to be super deluxe build, just solid. -- Not looking to max bard song as I feel 25 - 27 is enough and 100 perform is not worth the work to get. Not many perform boost items and those that are there are only +4 or so. -- Think that with a dedicated archer, rogue is probably the better choice for damage output with the SAs -- Indifferent to race and second class ... NO GNOMES!! -- Not looking for a challenge when just asking for ideas. I'll run an iconic cleric outside this campaign.
avado -- I appreciate what you are saying but posts like yours and players with the mentality you display are why I stopped playing for over a year and reading the forums. I have read several of your posts in other threads and they are all the same. "Clerics are the best, why do you waste your time with other classes, you are stupid if you disagree, blah, blah, blah...."
If you cannot help me or are unwilling to, take your argument with someone else somewhere else and stop hijacking threads with this cleric talk. I'd also appreciate it if others who are arguing in other threads did not take the bait and bring their arguing into my thread.
NOTE TO MODERATORS: I double posted the original in the build request section on account of I did not read properer. Do with the posts as you will and my apologies.
Edited By Pipwhistle Goblinsbane on 10/07/09 05:56
With the equipment you mention, bard is abetter bet than Cleric anyway.
I'm not sure what you need, really?
You seem to know what you want, like Bard24/Rogue16? And when you already stated you wanted an archer, the obvious choice is to get your 16 CHA, a little STR to boost your damage a little, and just pump DEX. Go for Epic Dodge, of course with all the prereqs within easy reach. I'm sure you'll figure out how to level efficiently. All you must remember is to go with splits divisible by 4 pre-epic to preserve your BAB. Not sure but I'd probably do a 16/4 split pre-epic one way or the other.
You can justify 12/8 too of course, but I think it's better with 16/4 personally. To avoid xp penalty you have to be Human or Halfling. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Thanks Grim. That's about what I had in my head. I was just looking to the pros to see if they had any whiz-bang ideas or odd takes on a 2 class build of this nature.
This forum has provided me with a lot of inspiration and I know that some of you may have experience with something a little different. As before this character will give me fits with spell selection. I am suprised no one pointed that out. That is just me being a sneaker at heart and preferring the stealth to the punch in the mouth. Get in, get out, engage if you have to, come back as clean as you went in.
I am not unwilling to change the idea totally for a character that was fun to play because of the oddity. I think that oddity is what makes it difficult for those that think in min/max terms.
Guess I was looking for a quirky sneaker build with emphasis on bard.
Hmmmm .. *quirky* sneaker...
I'm guessing in the high magic setting the sneak dmg of the rogue is going to be nerfed a bit by the damage bonuses available on all weapons, and crit immunities galore on anything that slightly matters? Also, there tends to be more than normal amount of TS, so the whole sneaky thing sometimes goes out the window. Thats been my experience, but then again i never lingered long in high magic env, i prefer +5(ish) pw's.
so lets explore the possibilities..
All the following can be built around a stealthy toon with a quirky twist. If theres an idea here you like, the guild can help flesh it out?
How about 23 Bard, 17 Druid. - Go WIS all the way, with Zen Archery. - Druid allows you to buff your Hide/MS, along side the Bardsong, assuming theres not alot of TS - You can lay down some nice covering/disabling spells eg layered creeping dooms, grease, vine mine etc and then party can pick away
How about 16 Paladin, 24 Bard *ack* - Go 14Wis, CHA most of the way - Divine goodness for unresistable dmg - Some nice buffing going on - you can still hide/ms ok to land the first killer blows - its an RP problem looking for a good story
How about 24 Bard, 16 Barbarian - Go for Terrifying Rage? Not sure about high magic environment DC checks etc
Ranger/Bard = probably not worth it - theres some synergies, maybe is trapping something you could use effectively in your PW??
Quote: mem ONLY one buff spell each (i list the most useful ones, but in high magic, you only need Div fav and Div power cuz you should have +10 in Epic lvls anyway).