Question is why would a monk say that is a dex monk thats lets say 20 level large get 1d20 damage ever use a kama even duel weilded except another attack perhaps ...when kama does only 1d6?
I know get a kama suppose :
+5 kama flame weapon on it not sure keen one? one for the other hand get another strike with improved weapons and such
Put all my points into dex, left my wisdom around 16 now is it worth going now more dex and pick up all the weapon feats for duel wielding?
just handy to have wehn you travel with a strong mage?
thanks sorry not play monks much trying to wrap my head around the idea.
why take 4 fighter levels before 20 to get the extra attacks and how effective the kamas are to your bare hands?
Leave it to the monks of the world to enlighten this darken soul
Question is why would a monk say that is a dex monk thats lets say 20 level large get 1d20 damage ever use a kama even duel weilded except another attack perhaps ...when kama does only 1d6?
This is a good question. WHile not an expert, i did play a fister a few times. Generally, the difficulty is getting junk on gloves that add damage is not an easy thing to do. While some pws have great gear for this, they cant be depended on.
Also, you are actually loosing 2 sockets that could have other bonuses ( ) on them. It is ONLY 1d20, which is NO big deal. I know it sounds HUGE, but really it isnt. Id take a rogue with a dagger (1d4) or even a rogue with WHIP (1d3) with junk over 1d20 and NOTHING else.
Generally speaking, base damage doesnt really matter that much when you get into epic lvls (20+). It really depends on where you are playing, but remember, the monks' damage must be looked at vs what else is available.
Quote: ...into dex, left my wisdom around 16 now is it worth going now more dex and pick up all the weapon feats for duel wielding?
This is why people DONT make good builds! While, on the surface you THINK you have a good idea, in practice you just cut off +2 from your hands! Yes, the lv 20 monk gets +3 hands, but with 21 wisdom, you gain access to imporved ki strike 4 and 5! Probably another reason why people dont worry so much about fists, when all you need for +5 kama is.... +5 kama (OR, a divine friend ) _________________
If you have access to +7 kamas or better the average damage is better than the d20 from unarmed because gloves tend to have +X AB only, not the bonus to attack and damage kamas have. I have seen gloves that were haked to give a proper enhancement bonus though.
Kamas are buffable, dual wieldable, don't waste a gear slot (gloves/bracers), can benefit from the keen property, have an enchantment bonus rather than just an attack one and in a +5 plus some elemental damage environment and a reasonable availability of scrolls or in a party generally deal more damage output than unarmed. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
I have seen gloves that were haked to give a proper enhancement bonus though.
Doesn't need to be "haked" or "hacked" just give them the proper damage bonus in the toolset.
Aye, add them the desired attack bonus property and an equivalent damage bonus (blunt) and you have the same result given by the enchantment bonus. In my experience few apply this simple fix. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Foe arguement sake lets go with the fact that monk is a pure monk no umd no caster with him and such. Leaves him with 1d20 hand ,most servers seen try to limit the monk. The gear is dumbed down usually due to balance or overall abuse from previous monks. Hey there great killing machines what can you say.
here my senario perhaps this might help where my question is lying and my roadblock......
dex maxed so far 20 wisdom is 14
give me hands of +3 ,gloves blunt +2 attack and +2 blunt damage. The gear is removed i mean kama +3 no effects is possible. Nothing else.
I wanted to be pure monk,thought might take 4 fighter levels to increas my bab debating that and any comments be good.
1. Do i want to be dependant on a mage every time need to get to that +5 to get around damage reduction?
2. is worth pumping up the wisdom here on in to get to the +5 ki and just use my hands?
3. do i abandon that idea of hands and go kamas and rely that find a mage to wander with and take duel weild , or later in epic take some rogue level maybe and dump points into umd which i not get many really.
4. asking not much a monk build so new ground like anywhere tread make mistakes, seeing the wisdom a thorn now in my side.
Aye, add them the desired attack bonus property and an equivalent damage bonus (blunt) and you have the same result given by the enchantment bonus. In my experience few apply this simple fix.
Probably because most people think "Given +5 gear, Kama is 8.5 damage and hands are 10.5...hands are fine" and don't consider the darkfire/flame weapon/lack of gear slot.
Foe arguement sake lets go with the fact that monk is a pure monk no umd no caster with him and such. Leaves him with 1d20 hand ,most servers seen try to limit the monk. The gear is dumbed down usually due to balance or overall abuse from previous monks. Hey there great killing machines what can you say.
here my senario perhaps this might help where my question is lying and my roadblock......
dex maxed so far 20 wisdom is 14
give me hands of +3 ,gloves blunt +2 attack and +2 blunt damage. The gear is removed i mean kama +3 no effects is possible. Nothing else.
I wanted to be pure monk,thought might take 4 fighter levels to increas my bab debating that and any comments be good.
1. Do i want to be dependant on a mage every time need to get to that +5 to get around damage reduction?
2. is worth pumping up the wisdom here on in to get to the +5 ki and just use my hands?
3. do i abandon that idea of hands and go kamas and rely that find a mage to wander with and take duel weild , or later in epic take some rogue level maybe and dump points into umd which i not get many really.
4. asking not much a monk build so new ground like anywhere tread make mistakes, seeing the wisdom a thorn now in my side.
Any help be appreciated Raven
see, i knew my esteemed colleagues would add to the conversation!
The question was NEVER, DO I play fists over kama! It was, which is better! My colleagues answered it in spades. Your resistance to it indicates YOU WANT to use fists, and there is NOTHING wrong with it!
I am not sure why you think dex! You wont have any real damage output, so you really need to use str with fists! Look at it this way: A PURE str Half Orc RDD would have a BASE of 44 str and with +12 gear, 56! This means EVERY hit with his WHIP (d3) or DAGGER (d4) HITS for +23+die roll! What you describe with your dex monk with fists is 1-20+3! SO, while the rdd hits +24 EVERY TIME MINIMUM, you MAYBE hit for 23 on a PERFECT roll! Which is easier?
Now, you are asking an entirely DIFFERENT question with "should i hang with a wiz"... Solobility is in the SKILL of the player AND the character. The monk isnt the easiest to solo with. Again, i hate sounding like a broken record, but WHAT DO YOU WANT? _________________
Just to make sure...we're talking about a level 40 server, right? Cause otherwise you won't be getting Ki Strike +5.
WHAT! Dude, NO DISTRACTIONS!! lv 40 isnt necessary as we are still trying to understand HOW this guy plays! He is wanting to use fists and you guys failed to sell that!
FOCUS
Regularly kamas are taken by multiclassed builds with low amount of Monk levels, so kama can take all the advantages of Monk's APR progression with all the regular advantages of having a weapon such as buffing and such, as easy as that. Why would a level 20 Monk use kamas? I suppose they regularly don't do so. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Quote: Posted 11/19/09 04:00 (GMT) -- avado
WHAT! Dude, NO DISTRACTIONS!! lv 40 isnt necessary as we are still trying to understand HOW this guy plays! He is wanting to use fists and you guys failed to sell that!
FOCUS
Hmm? Monks can function using both fists and kamas, either is typically viable. There's not really a playstyle difference either, unless you count spamming stunning fist. Which is better is completely server dependent.
Regularly kamas are taken by multiclassed builds with low amount of Monk levels, so kama can take all the advantages of Monk's APR progression with all the regular advantages of having a weapon such as buffing and such, as easy as that. Why would a level 20 Monk use kamas? I suppose they regularly don't do so.
Kama average damage: 3.5 Fist average damage: 10.5
If you can make up 7 damage (via darkfire, weapon enhancement including GMW, or the kamas available are simply better), then a single kama is better.
And if you want to dual-wield it's your only choice
Okay okay Avado(sorry hope that right post alot read them but late and tired) think got it like to sway to the fist side of things. This is more personal choice and i know certain builds rock others. Guess what is my concern hate to see say well had kamas be doing like twice as mucha nd more attacks and man you sure were out to lunch making this character good with that. Sure the paranoid response we all fear.
So this where its at then. server is low magic somwhat nothing over +3 , most monk items there are none. Some super uber monk came and ripped through and pretty much abolished all monk stuff to follow for sake balance. I know yuck. But up to the challenge to compete.
so start increasing wisdom nice take awile and by time reach that level maybe need the +5 .
does the fighter levels even matter at this point to increase anything can just still go straight monk...now think about it can I take great wisdom as a monk?
now seeing that strength comment too yeha see where strength build works to a monks favor
raven
What's the level cap on the server?
The cap is 40th sorry pretty tired last night.
thanks Raven
Play around with this...
Str 10 Dex 14 (22) Con 14 Wis 16 (22) Int 14 Cha 8
Put the stat increases up until level 24 into wisdom, then 28/32/36/40 into dexterity.
1 Toughness, Luck of Heroes 2 3 Weapon Finesse 4 5 6 Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike 7 8 9 Blind Fight 10 11 12 Expertise 13 14 15 Improved Expertise 16 17 18 Improved Critical: Unarmed Strike 19 20 21 Epic Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike 22 23 24 Epic Prowess 25 Improved Ki Strike 4 26 27 Armor Skin 28 29 30 Great Dexterity I, Improved Ki Strike 5 31 32 33 Great Dexterity II 34 35 Improved Spell Resistance I 36 Great Dexterity III 37 38 39 Great Dexterity IV 40 Improved Spell Resistance II
Mundane AB: 25 + 4 + 6 = 35
AB is definitely a lot lower than I'd like, but if you want Improved Ki Strike 4 and 5...yeah. On the flip side, your naked AC is...
Items will add more...every 2 dex or 2 wisdom is 1 AC. If you can get +3 items, then you're looking at 52 AC from that plus your dexterity/wisdom additions...if you're able to add, say +6 dexterity total and no wisdom, that's 55 AC. Potential of 64 if you can get a druid to cast owl's insight, aura of vitality, and somehow get cat's grace.
You can also then active (improved) expertise if you want.
Thanks rolling around with it right now trying different aspect of it, still curious about a strength build toward this due to Avado thinks dexers are just flies trying to stop trucks. Question then is are not strength monks challenged in ac alot more?
raven
Str monks won't get the same high AC as dexer or stunner (wis based) monks, but it is still quite good compared to other strength based builds, especially in high levels and when you can buff dex and wis.
A typical greatsword-wielding lvl 40 figher in mundane gear will have an AC of 25 if tumble is cross classed and 29 with skilldump from a tumble class. If you add a towershield you get 28 and 32. A str monk of lvl 40 (with dex 14 and wis 14) in mundane robes will have AC 32
A figher can get shield AC on the shield, something the monk won't have access to. But the monk can get extra AC from increasing dex and wis with items and potions. _________________ I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it...
Thanks rolling around with it right now trying different aspect of it, still curious about a strength build toward this due to Avado thinks dexers are just flies trying to stop trucks. Question then is are not strength monks challenged in ac alot more?
Avado is obsessed with killing quickly to the exclusion of all else. A dex based monk won't do much damage but he'll be insanely hard to kill. A strength based monk will lose a good chunk of AC, yes, especially on a lower magic server.
Avado is obsessed with killing quickly to the exclusion of all else...
and HOW! When i got into this guild way back when, i was looking for the soloable character! Party players are fine, but i used to play at hours where noone else was on. I HATED long fights as the longer they go on, the longer they go on (with regen and stuff). There is nothing wrong with dexer monks, as long as there are damage sources. Hitting for 1 point just doesnt get me excited to play!
I was just looking through the forums and came across a snipet that gloves with enchantment can make u pand add to ki strike +3
so are the gloves these?
Gloves acid (attack bonus +2 acid damage +2)
if so that save alot of headaches but is it so?
raven
By default, those gloves will not pierce 10/+3 reduction, but Ki Strike +3 will.
The attack bonus on gloves(+2 on your exampl) does penetrate DR. So if you can get +5 gloves there's no need to get KI strike at all. If that was what you were asking.... _________________ Dragonlance ROH is back, better than before! and I spend a little time here WoG
) on them. It is ONLY 1d20, which is NO big deal. I know it sounds HUGE, but really it isnt. Id take a rogue with a dagger (1d4) or even a rogue with WHIP (1d3) with junk over 1d20 and NOTHING else. 
)