I was just looking into the search engine for builds and found so many Dragon builds that are no longer legal effectively since DS minimum required Druid level became 18 instead of 14.
I started this topic because I don't think that masterpieces such as Puff the Magic Dragon, Order of Jormungandr, Dragon Savant and others, who were legal back in the day, should be excluded from the database. That is both a disrespect to the great builders that came up with the concept and a waste of background for everyone that searches this grimoire for inspiration to build. However, I do think that something needs to be done to AT LEAST specify to those people that are now reading the builds that they're no longer legal. I have 2 suggestions to make. The first is less work, but also not quite as fulfilling as the second one. Here they are:
1- The title of each build could receive an addendum that says "no longer legal, from patch 1.69 on" (or whatever the patch number was that changed the requirements).
2- The original creators of the build could post an alternate version or legalized version of the build so that they could continue to be used as basis and inspiration for other builders. This would be hard to do, since so many people have retired from both playing and posting here, unless a moderator does the work for the ones that no longer participate. To know which OPs are willing to re-legalize their builds, a moderator could PM all and give them, say, 2 or 3 weeks to reply, and if they don't, the moderator would then do it himself. Hell, I would be thrilled to work on preliminary versions and then send them to anyone who is willing to do the work, just for the sake of keeping this forum up to date.
Anyway, IMHO this should be done for every great build that is no longer legal, not only Dragon builds, although I don't know if there are other prestige classes / feats or even epic spells / skills that had a recent change in requirements. This way, we pay homage to those templates while performing a "public service" to the newer members.
Let me know what you think.
Take it EZ!
My suggestion is a bit more practical. Post an addendum to all non 1.69 compliant builds stating as such. The downside is that this will lead to like a gazillion useless bumps. The upside is the ease of implication. Find one? Tag it.
Whenever possible, it would be nice to have a 1.69 compliant version posted as well, again in the same post as the original. I wouldn't leave it up to the original builder though, that person may not be around. Only when changes are suitable, and simple, should they be included. For example:
Moving Epic Dodge from level 24, to level 27, is simple, and suitable. The caveat is that if the build was designed solely for an early epic dodge, I don't see the point in making it compliant, as 1.69 effectively ruined building for an early ED (not to mention scratching the best use of HS...).
Redistributing feats, or even levels, to fix dragon shape builds may be both simple and suitable, but only if the resulting build shares a strong enough resemblance to the original one.
One of the advantages to this approach is that there's really no harm done for unnecessary 'fixes.' Again, lots of bumps, but if someone wants to take the time, then sure, it's a useful reference.
I do very much like the idea of somehow noting when a build is illegal under 1.69. I think relying on posters to tag builds is sufficient. I mean, if a mod wants to dig through every ED, and DS build, then, sure, no argument, but over time, we can achieve the same results organically.
For the record, though I continually remind myself how great it was to get that last patch, I still think that what it did to character building was a grave mistake. Sometimes when things are broken long enough, they deserve to stay that way.
Quote: (not to mention scratching the best use of HS...).
Forgive my ignorance, but what does HS stand for in the above sentence?
Another thing, while we're at it: what changed in ED requirements in this last patch?
Take it EZ!
Quote: Posted 06/01/10 10:47 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane
Forgive my ignorance, but what does HS stand for in the above sentence?
Harper Scout. It got Great CHA or Great DEX as a bonus feat on HS lvl 1.
Quote: Posted 06/01/10 10:47 (GMT) -- Maximillian Kane Another thing, while we're at it: what changed in ED requirements in this last patch?
Take it EZ!
They finally decided to correct it, after several years of being "wrong" according to description. All prereqs are tha same, except now you must have 30 ranks in tumble. Before you needed only 1 rank. Thus you could get ED at lvl 21 before, now you can't get it before 27. fixing that and the DragonShape thing was just stupid, IMHO. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again