Good no longer needs to wait for Evil to come within arms reach. Retribution to the unjust can now be delivered on sight, in sufficient damage and quantity to make it seem like like the heavens have opened up and is raining divine thunderbolts.
Yes, this build has no PRC classes in it. It does have PRC FEATS in it though, and has been optimized to use them to full effectiveness. As you will see, that takes it to an entirely new level of damage. . .even with no dispellable buffing required. The major feats to watch (and affect the build) are:
Holy Martial Strike Prerequisite: Smite Evil, Good Alignment, Epic character. Any weapon used is treated as a holy weapon (+2d6 holy damage).
Epic Divine Might Prerequisite: Divine Might, Turn Undead, Cha 21+, Str 21+, Power Attack. The character may spend one of his turn undead attempts to add twice his Charisma bonus to all weapon damage for a number of rounds equal to twice the Charisma bonus.
This guy is geared towards getting the most out of all forms of ranged damage possible; he is very damaging in normal circumstances, but he gets SERIOUS damage when you have Mighty bows, and Str+Charisma enhancement. And almost half is Divine damage (very unlikely to be resisted). Both versions of damage delivered are high enough to break most DRs.
Elf 9/2/29 Paladin/Sorc/AA
Str 16 (22) Con 10 Dex 14 (18) Wis 8 Int 10 Cha 16 (22)
Wears Plate Mail due to sub-optimium Dex.
1 Sorc - Point Blank Shot 2 Pal 3 Pal - WF(longbow) 4 Pal - Char(17) 5 Pal 6 Pal - Pow Attack 7 Pal 8 AA - Cha(18) 9 Pal - Divine Might 10 AA 11 AA 12 AA - Cha(19) Called Shot 13 AA 14 AA 15 AA - Imp Crit(longbow) 16 AA - Cha(20) 17 AA 18 Pal8 - Extra Turning (Discipline to 20) 19 Sorc2 - (Spellcraft to 20) 20 AA - Str(17)
8/2/10 Pal/Sorc/AA pre-epic; 4 attacks/round
21 AA - Holy Martial Strike (gains 2d6 vs evil on all weapons) 22 AA 23 AA 24 AA - Str(18) EWF(longbow), Rapid Shot 25 AA 26 AA 27 AA - GreatStr(19) 28 AA - Str(20), GreatDex(15) 29 AA 30 AA - GreatStr(21) 31 AA 32 AA - Cha(21), GreatDex(16) 33 AA - GreatDex(17) 34 AA 35 AA 36 AA - Str(22), Many Shot, GreatDex(18) 37 AA 38 AA 39 Pal9 - Epic Divine Might (Cha bonus gives 2x to damage, duration) 40 AA - Cha(22)
Saves - add +4 to these for Spellcraft against magic ----- Fort 29 Reflex 29 Will 23
AB 51/46/41/36 As usual, True Strike is available too. Having a 29 BAB makes up somewhat for having a low Dex, but it cant cover the fact that most AA builds have around 30 Dex instead of 18. Still, in comparision, whats a pure Fighter got to do to get 51AB?
Bow Damage ----------
Bow damage (all normal, no mighty, no items, EpicDivineMight) ----------- --------------- ------------- ------------ ----- 15 Turn Undeads at 12 rounds each. So for 180 rounds a day, he can do, with EACH ARROW:
vs non-evil d8+15 + 12(Divine) = 31.5 Avg, 35 Max vs Evil d8+15 + 12+2d6(Divine) = 38.5 Avg, 47 Max The bow crit is 19-20x3 of that.
Bow damage with HotU items (+12 Cha, +8 Str, Mighty+10, unlimited arrows+5, EpicDivineMight) ----------- ------------- ------------- -------------- ----- 21 Turn Undeads at 24 rounds each (affected by Cha bonus). So for 504 (yes 504!) rounds a day, he can do, with EACH ARROW:
vs non-evil d8+15+10+5 + 24(Divine) = 58.5 Avg, 62 Max vs Evil d8+15+10+5 + 24+2d6(Divine) = 65.5 Avg, 74 Max The bow crit is 19-20x3 of that.
Pros: The damage per arrow is simply awesome. All Divine damage shown will work with melee weapons as well.
Cons: Its embarassing to wear plate mail as an AA. For an AA build, the AB is 4-5 points lower than typical. Really wants ability enhancement (items or party member buffing) to come into full effectiveness. No access to Haste, but could if you gave up some AA levels (oddly enough, wont really affect overall damage much) Could use something to help with Will saves.
Personally, I think I'm not sure I like the Many Shot feat, and as embarassing as it is to have 16 Dex for an AA, perhaps it would be better to drop 2 Great Dex feats, and take Epic Prowess and ArmorSkin.
Enjoy! Comments and constructive criticism welcome. _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
Excellent way to take a classic style build and give it a great PRC upgrade. Looks like a serious damage threat.
This build, while good, can IMO be improved.
Firstly, Pal12/Sorc1/AA27. (14, 18, 22, 26, 30.. so don't lose a bonus feat)
You lose an AB but gain access to 3rd lvl pally spells and divine favor becomes +4 instead of +3.
Secondly, skip out dex. Do zen archery instead. This saves you some (well needed) stat points. In addition, it gives you some massive spell slots = more divine favors, more prayers, etc.
Third, don't take many shot. It's not really all that useful.
Fourth, pump that wis higher! You need it. Your AB lower than 3-4 AB from the standard AA builds; i'd say more like 5-8.
Also; you may look into doing Cleric 12 instead of Paladin 12. I think you can accomplish everything just as good. The pros and cons are (of doing cleric instead)
Pros: WAY more spell power, and the ability to really enhance your prowess
Cons: Lower saves Slightly lower BAB
~ Lock. _________________ "Life builds you up just to tear you down." - 3rd Strike
Edited By Lockindal on 08/17/04 17:09
Some nice ideas!
Quote: Also; you may look into doing Cleric 12 instead of Paladin 12. I think you can accomplish everything just as good.
I need Smite Evil for Holy Martial Strike. I dont think Clerics can get it, so I think I'm abck to Pally again. Too bad; I would like the heavy Cleric buffs on this guy.
Quote: Firstly, Pal12/Sorc1/AA27. (14, 18, 22, 26, 30.. so don't lose a bonus feat)
You lose an AB but gain access to 3rd lvl pally spells and divine favor becomes +4 instead of +3.
Interesting thought; I'd given up on spells. But I only get 1 each of levels 1, 2, and 3.
Divine favor only lasts 1 Turn.
Aura of Glory gives be 4 Charisma for 12 Turns. Nice. Eagles Splendor lasts for much longer, but only guarantees 2 points of Cha.
Prayer only lasts 12 rounds.
You really think its worth it to lose BAB for such short durations? Mabe there are some nice PRC spells I dont have with me at work that would be better. . .
My other idea was to get 2nd or 3rd level Sorc spells, because: - Charisma is plentiful for bonus spells - a later Sorc level would let me increase Spellcraft - Sorc has most of the basic buffing spells too.
Quote: Secondly, skip out dex. Do zen archery instead. This saves you some (well needed) stat points. In addition, it gives you some massive spell slots = more divine favors, more prayers, etc.
I'll look into it this way. The problem is that the AA bonus feats give me Dex only, and nothing else. That hurts getting mucho Wisdom; a lot.
Plus I have to be Elf/Half-Elf, and Elf helps Dex but does nothing for Wisdom. I think this may be a case where I get better ability points by going Half-Elf instead of Elf. . .hmm. Never saw that before.
On the other hand, if reducing AB is in, then changing a few Dex points to Charisma and boosting damage isnt a bad way to go either. That Epic Divine Might bonus is really, really nice; a little change goes a long way!
Quote: Third, don't take many shot. It's not really all that useful.
I was suprised at the number of PRC archery feats, yet how few I actually wanted. Maybe Zen Archery for Many Shot then. . .
[qoute] Fourth, pump that wis higher! You need it. Your AB lower than 3-4 AB from the standard AA builds; i'd say more like 5-8. (/quote)
How high? I'm not sure I see reaching 18, like I did with Dex, given the lack of ways to get Great Wis. And I really NEED the 21 Str and Cha, so I have very little leeway to work with here.
Keep'em coming; this is good stuff. I've always wanted a really damaging AA, and this looks like its it for me. _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
Yea, Half-Elf would be better for this build probably.
Also, remember, while divine favor would only last 1 turn... you would have A LOT of uses for it.
I'd try to fit in extend spell, too, if I was you.
Also remember using WIS, if you find a item that raises paladin spell slots, and you get an item that gives fourth lvl slot, you can cast those fourth lvl spells (albeit only from the bonus slots).
For your AA bonus feats, I would select the following:
AA 14 - EWF: Longbow AA 18 - Epic Prowess AA 22 - Great Dexterity I (remember, you need a lil DEX for AC; plus there's not much else to take) AA 26 - Great Dexterity II
Sure it'll slow down getting your AB a little bit, but not much else.
For starting stats: 14 str (??) how many grt strs you wanna take? 08 dex 10 con 16 wis (20) 10 int 16 cha (22)
Divine Favor gives +4 ab/+4 dmg using my template --- that's a whole lot more dmg
Prayer is ALSO +1 dmg, so.. Remember, if you're assuming mighty bow, you miaswell assume +12 str from items --- and sinc emighty bows above +8 are almost unheard of everywhere I play, 14+12 = 26 STR = +7 mighty; which is about as good as you're gonna get.
~ Lock. _________________ "Life builds you up just to tear you down." - 3rd Strike
Quote: I'd try to fit in extend spell, too, if I was you.
I have a sample build coming using Wisdom; I dont think its possible to get this without losing something else about as useful. I'll post shortly.
Quote: For your AA bonus feats, I would select the following: AA 14 - EWF: Longbow AA 18 - Epic Prowess AA 22 - Great Dexterity I (remember, you need a lil DEX for AC; plus there's not much else to take) AA 26 - Great Dexterity II
I went this way, but I had to drop the Dex, to put Called Shot there, to make way for Zen Archery pre-epic. Feats are VERY tight all the way. You'll see soon. . .
Quote: 14 str (??) how many grt strs you wanna take?
I need 21 STR for the Epic Divine Might, so. . .a lot.
Quote: Remember, if you're assuming mighty bow, you miaswell assume +12 str from items --- and sinc emighty bows above +8 are almost unheard of everywhere I play, 14+12 = 26 STR = +7 mighty; which is about as good as you're gonna get
I prefer to go with the HOTU "standard" of +10 Mighty; its more universally known, at least. As much as I like the extra damage from Mighty, I would MUCH prefer to have put the points in Charisma, wher eI get more benefits. But that darn Epic Divine Might pre-req forces 21 STR, so I do 22 to keep from wasting a point. . . _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
Okay, here is what a 12/1/27 version that uses Wisdom would have to do in order to make this work.
NOTE: I havent tested this yet so I might have a mistake in the build. There is one BIG detail that would improve it a bit, but I dont have access to the game to check right now, and the grimoire says no. More details below. We'll see. . .
Half-Elf 12/1/27 Paladin/Sorc/AA
Str 14 (21) Con 10 Dex 8 (10) Wis 16 Int 10 Cha 16 (22)
Wears Plate Mail due to REALLY sub-optimium Dex.
1 Pal - Point Blank Shot 2 Pal 3 Pal - WF(longbow) 4 Pal - Cha(17) 5 Pal 6 Pal - Pow Attack (pre-req for EDM) 7 Sorc - (Spellcraft to 10) 8 AA - Cha(18) 9 Pal - Divine Might 10 AA 11 AA 12 AA - Cha(19) Zen Archery (was Called Shot in old build) 13 AA 14 AA 15 AA - Imp Crit(longbow) 16 AA - Cha(20) 17 AA 18 Pal8 - Extra Turning 19 AA 20 Pal9 - Str(15) (Max Discipline to 20+)
9/1/10 Pal/Sorc/AA pre-epic; 4 attacks/round
21 AA - Holy Martial Strike (gains 2d6 vs evil on all weapons) 22 AA 23 AA 24 AA - Str(16) GreatStr(17) EWF(longbow)*** 25 AA 26 AA 27 AA - GreatStr(18) 28 AA - Str(19), Epic Prowess*** 29 AA 30 AA - GreatStr(20) 31 AA 32 AA - Cha(21), Great Dex(9)*** 33 AA - Rapid Shot 34 AA 35 AA 36 AA - Str(21), Called Shot, GreatDex(10)*** 37 AA 38 Pal10 39 Pal11 - Epic Divine Might (Cha bonus gives 2x to damage, duration) 40 Pal12 - Cha(22)
*** Denotes AA bonus feat.
Basic Changes versus the dex-build: ------- - gained 2 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level Paladin spells. - Elf to Half-Elf - Spellcraft dropped by 10; Listen and Spot increased by 5 each. - Drop in AC by a point due to lower Dex
AB Changes ---------- - Lost one; using 16 Wis instead of 18 Dex - Lost one; 2 fewer AA levels. - Gained one; due to Epic Prowess. - Spells can improve this temporarily beyond losses.
Damage ------ - Lost one; 2 fewer AA levels. - Lost one? Drop in Mighty damage due to lower Str (fixable via items since Mighty+10 caps this) - Spells can improve this temporarily beyond losses.
Notes on changes ------- -------- - Dropped Many Shot from original build
- I'd like to maybe put Extend Spell in, but dont see how, without giving up something about as nice.
- Called Shot and Rapid Shot are base requirements in any AA build, IMO. But I had to wait until epic to put them in, which is unfortunate. The order of the epic feats can easily be changed to get Called Shot and Rapid Shot earlier; I put them where they are mostly because its easy to talk about them and swap them out, from where I put them. . .
- I would have raised Wisdom on levels 33 and 36, but I do not beleive Called Shot and Rapid Shot are AA bonus feats (Grimoire says no). If they were bonus feats, then I'd drop the 2 Great Dexes, put them there, and take 2 Great Wisdoms instead (or other feats). . .
Personally, its a nice variation of the build, and perhaps slightly better than the original in the end, but not earthshakingly so. This build does get more of a synergy from Wisdom boosting, but it seems less "fun" than the original during leveling, due to delayed AA feats, etc. Mostly its a tradeoff of: - consistent non-dispellable damage and AB versus - lower consistent damage and AB, that 3-4 times a day can be made to be higher than the original (and can be dispelled)
I'll check on the AA bonus feats tonight. . . _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
Quote: - I would have raised Wisdom on levels 33 and 36, but I do not beleive Called Shot and Rapid Shot are AA bonus feats (Grimoire says no).
Confirmed; they are not AA bonus feats. So the Wisdom version stands as it is, I think. _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
It does have PRC FEATS in it though, and has been optimized to use them to full effectiveness. As you will see, that takes it to an entirely new level of damage. . .even with no dispellable buffing required. The major feats to watch (and affect the build) are: