Swift, silent, and adaptable; capable of dealing fatal damage with any number of weapons. A true ninja warrior that uses the shadows and his stealth skills to such good affect that even in the light of day nobody sees more than a blurred shape. To his chosen victim, it seems that a piece of darkness itself, a splinter of shadow, has come to kill him. . .
The "Splinter of Shadow" Elven 19/4/17 Rogue/Ninja Spy/Man At Arms
Str 13 Dex 20 (32) Con 10 Wis 8 Int 13 Cha 8
Ability Summary ----------------------- Sneak is 11d6 (10 Rogue, 1 Ninja) Improved Knockdown Superior Initiative HIPS Epic Dodge Self-Conceal5 WF and ImpCrit in ShortBow and Kukri WF, EWF, and ImpCrit in Rapier and Mace Strike at the Core - All weapons used have a DC27 Con Drain Furious Assult (extra attack/round) Focussed Strike - Adds Dex Bonus to damage when using Power Attack. Hint: use PrCs PowerAttack1 to get maximum damage/AB loss of -1 to attack, +12 to damage (unbuffed dex mod).
21 MaA - Epic Dodge 22 MaA 23 MaA 24 MaA - Dex(26), Knockdown 25 MaA 26 Rogue 27 MaA - GreatDex(27) 28 MaA - Dex(28) 29 MaA 30 MaA - GreatDex(29), EWF(Rapier)** 31 MaA 32 MaA - Dex(30) 33 Rogue - Improved Knockdown, SC1 34 Rogue 35 Rogue 36 Rogue - Dex(31) , SC2, SC3 37 Rogue 38 Rogue 39 Rogue - SC4, SC5 40 MaA - EWF(mace)**
** -denotes ManAtArms bonus feats; other good feat alterantives allowed are ArmorSkin, Epic Prowess, etc.
Saves (add +4 due to Spellcraft) ------- Fort 21 Reflex 36 Will 19
AC 32 (using a Tower Shield I probably cant justify on a Ninja-type)
Chosen Weapons (one ranged, and 3 finessed weapons of each damage type) All weapons have 11d6 Sneak, and OnHit DC27 Constitution drain. ----------------- 43/38/33/28 Rapier d6+16 (preferred weapon) 43/38/33/28 Mace d6+16 (also preferred, use on undead) 41/36/31/26 Bow d8, (+1 if Mighty; for ranged sneak damage) 41/36/31/26 Kukri d4+16
Build Comments ---------- ------------- Has proven to be a very strong build once it got going. Sadly, the build is weaker than I hoped in the early going, thanks to the significant pre-reqs of ManAtArms, and desiring 4 attacks/round; it forced Weapon Finesse back too late in the build for me to call it a truly good build from level 1. However, once you get HIPS at level 11, you are dealing ranged sneak damage at will, and the rest of the trip to Weapon Finesse is a piece of cake. And once you have Finesse. . . you are awesome.
I also would have liked to be able to squeeze in Expertise; but I saw no way with Self-Conceal.
Here is an alternative approach to the build that also works; intended for people who consider Self-Conceal to costly: Replace ManAtArms levels from 26-32 with Ninja Spy, thus ending at 19/10/11 Rogue/Ninja/MaA. This does the following:
- Gives you Imp Invisibility via Ninja Level 10; giving you some Self-Conceal. This frees up 5 feat slots; 2 epic, and 3 Rogue bonus feats. - Gets 2 more Sneak attacks, Slippery Mind, and the really neat "Mask of a Thousand Faces"; something every RP assassin type would enjoy. - Alas, you also lose 2 ManAtArms feats from the build.
Pros ------ - Very high damage for a Dex build. - Versatile; can always use the weapon appropriate for the job, and deal good damage in the process (not countng the sneak). - Mega-stealth, with high initiative, ImpKnockdown, and excellent sneak damage. - The extra attacks (Furious Assult) and auto-weapon Con drain are definite plusses.
Cons ------- - Has decent AC with all that Dex, but not exceptional (still grumpy about not getting Expertise). - Could use some help in Fort/Will save area. Slippery Mind would have helped (see alternative build), and the UMD can be used to help this as well. - Haste item highly desired (as usual).
Constructive comments welcome. _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
Quote: 21 MaA - Epic Dodge 22 MaA 23 MaA 24 MaA - Dex(26), Knockdown 25 MaA 26 Rogue 27 MaA - GreatDex(27)
I don't think you can get epic dodge where you listed it. You need 30 ranks of tumble. Just move knockdown and great dex up and put epic dodge where your great dex is and you're all set though.
As for your late weapon finesse issue, what about switching it and power attack around. You don't really need power attack that early on a rogue build as DR critters aren't to common yet.
Also you said mace is a finesse weapon, but I don't recall it being one. It's still a good choice for a blunt weapon though as mace of disruption really does a number on the other big problem monster for rogue builds - undead.
What does epic levels of master of arms do? I have read what the first ten do, but haven't experimented with the class yet.
Edited By Emrill on 08/22/04 13:44
Don't need 30 ranks in tumble, manual is wrong.
Just need A rank in tumble.
~ Lock. _________________ "Life builds you up just to tear you down." - 3rd Strike
Hmm that sounds liek a fubared 2da file then, because even the pnp epic handbook states it needs 30 tumble.
I did look at weap finesse and sure enough mace is on there though. That's kind of nice to know. I've been trying to look at a blunt sneak attack build.
/ed ROFL I just looked at the feat.2da file and sure enough no min skill requirement. Looks like the game is wrong in this instance instead of the manual.
Edited By Emrill on 08/22/04 14:53
Quote: I don't think you can get epic dodge where you listed it. You need 30 ranks of tumble. Just move knockdown and great dex up and put epic dodge where your great dex is and you're all set though.
Its allowed; either the Tumble requirement is wrong in the docs, or the 2da files are. We may never know which. I havent heard if there is a change in 1.64 yet, but its a possibility, and I am curious. (I think the 2da file is, personally, but I'm going with the flow for now)
Quote: As for your late weapon finesse issue, what about switching it and power attack around. You don't really need power attack that early on a rogue build as DR critters aren't to common yet.
Unfortunately, Power Attack is a ManAtArms pre-req, so I need it early too.
Being human would have been solved it nicely too with the extra feat, but that made my Dex lower, making Epic Dodge later, pretty much wipes out Self-Concealment (so I'd want to take 10 Ninjas for ImpInvis). . .it would be a completly different build as human, but in some ways, a more viable one.
Quote: What does epic levels of master of arms do? I have read what the first ten do, but haven't experimented with the class yet.
Other than feats, and improving the Con DC on your weapon(s), I dont think it does anything extra to the class. It has an odd set of epic feats too, but it is one of the few classes that has Great Strength as an epic feat. Too bad its main benefits are focussed on Dexers. . . _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
Edited By xitooner on 08/22/04 15:56
Ahh didn't know about the power attack prereq. I knew it had 4 weapon focus prereq.
I was talking with Georg Zoeller about getting epic dodge's tumble prerreq fixed in 1.64. At first he said he was going to get it in, but he later said there may be to many characters becoming invalid if they did patch it in. I can definately understand not wanting that. I guess the no rank prereq is here to stay.
Quote: I was talking with Georg Zoeller about getting epic dodge's tumble prerreq fixed in 1.64. At first he said he was going to get it in, but he later said there may be to many characters becoming invalid if they did patch it in. I can definately understand not wanting that. I guess the no rank prereq is here to stay.
Interesting; thats for checking that out. I think its true that a lot of characters would become invalid; I know I have a few I'm not sure how big a deal that would be for SP play, but I guess it could be a very big deal on PWs where some legality scripts are being run. _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
Even one of the first epic builds would become illegal. The Rogue Archer takes epic dodge earlier than level 27.
