Hi eveyone. I am just starting to try personal builds for the first time. I see great ones on this site. Anyone have some hints on a Sorceror/Pale Master/RDD. I know that Sorcs work on Charisma and feats that compliment that ability. Would it be wise to go dex based or str based for the other 2. As far as weapons I also like scimitars and longbows. Also I do not like PvP so please take that into account. So also am I thinking right when taking feats that compliment charisma or strength or dex. Please give me ideas.
Thanks, Thaylander Fleit When in doubt punt
This build is generally done as a Sorcerer 20/PM 10/RDD 10, as that will get you everything you really need from PM and RDD, while still getting you a decent Sorc level.
Alternatively, you could go Sorc 23/PM 10/RDD 7 and get a higher caster level and an Epic Spell (preferably Epic Warding), but then you would lose 4 Str, 2 Int, and 2 Cha from the previous build, so it's debatable whether or not this is worth it.
Note that with this build the only proficiency you get for free is Simple Weapon Prof. If you want any armor or shield proficiencies, or you want to use martial or exotic weapons, you will have to buy the feats.
Also note that you don't get many bonus feats. You can get 1 bonus feat at 1st level if you go Human, but other than that, that's it (unless you go with the 2nd version, in which case you get an extra feat at Sorc lvl 23).
Thus, the build tends to be rather short on feats, although it's still doable, especially if you're not going for Dev. Crit.
As for Str vs. Dex, you should have higher damage and AB going Str-based, given that you get +8 Str from RDD. Going Dex-based might not be a bad idea, however, because it could actually save you a lot of feats. Not only would you not need to spend feats on armor and shield proficiencies, you also wouldn't need to spend any feats on Still Spell or any of the Auto-Still spell feats.
Note that if you go Dex-based you will want to plan on using either ranged weapons or weapons which can be finessed, meaning that although you could do a Rapier, a Scimitar wouldn't work quite as well as your Dex would be higher than your Str.
As for race, I'd say Human if going Str-based or Elven if going Dex-based. Elves are nice because they get certain proficiences for free (Longbow, Rapier, Longsword) and they get +2 Dex, although they suffer a penalty to Con, which I don't really like, especially when your main class only gets d4 HP already.
As for stats, you'll want at least 19 Cha, and I'd probably go for 20 just to end it on an even #. You could go higher and it would help your DC and give you more spell slots, but if you're doing a hybrid type character you'll want decent combat abilities as well, which means pumping Str or Dex.
Thanks a lot. I do like Dex based characters and if I do the RDD at least to 10 then I would even out with my strength. I was workin on the build a little bit and came to the decision that the pale master doesn't really give a lot except the undead summon and the hardening of bone. I discovered if you use two weapons, you can't use the graft anyway. So what I think I'll do is make a elven ranger/red dragon disciple/sorceror. This way I get good levels of spells, 10 levelsI need from the RDD and 9 levels on the ranger. Put points into charisma like you were sayingand kick dex up and pick up the strength from RDD and items along the way. How does that sound. I think it is very workable. Thanks, Thaylander Fleit When in doubt punt.
Sure, that would work, although I'd probably go Fighter rather than Ranger, as you don't really get that much out of Ranger unless you're taking it to a fairly high level. Nine levels of Fighter would give you 5 bonus feats, which would be enough to get all the dual-wield feats as well as Epic Weapon Spec.
If you take your levels Sorc 4/Fighter 8/RDD 8 pre-epic, this will give you 4 attacks per round, and then if you take your last Fighter level on a level that you would normally get a feat, you should be able to pick up Epic Weapon Spec.
Of course, you'll want to make sure to take a late level of either Fighter or RDD to max your Discipline score, but other than that it should work. Other feats to pick up would be Epic Spell Penetration, because you'll have a relatively low caster level and you may have some trouble beating SR.
Got you. That sounds great. Thanks for the help. I still think I can take still spell and wear armor and that would increase melee, not take so much in stength, because I can augmen t that with bulls strength and RDD levels.
Generally, a Rdd/Palemaster combination would hint towards a melee character because of the boosted strength, constitution, Armor Class and Immunity To Critical Hits, therefore, if I were doing this build I would subsitute Bard in for your Sorceror. PM and RDD are only really effecient when taken all the way to the tenth level, only leaving 20 levels of Sorceror, which leaves the DC's and Spell Penetration etc. extremely low. Subsituting the bard would allow more weapon proficency, medium armor profinceny (boosted to heavy armor which is an extreme help) and if you a rapier and have 10 levels of RDD it would be extremely easy to get Dev. Crit. Hit at pretty much a low Epic Level which helps alot if you're playing the modules. Although Bard spells can only go up to level 6 I think (correct me if I'm wrong) and not the more powerful spells, if you're playing the module, which I extremely recommend for newcomers, you will only get up to level 24-27, which means that you will probably on get up to level 6 bard spells anyways. If you are playing a server that it easy to level up at, I would just get up to level 6 spells of Bard, then take your extra levels of PM, you will get more Bard spells, more hitpoints, and more armorclass.Another good part of this build is that you will get Bardsong, which can easily sway a battle.Try and spread your skillpoints out between concentration, discipline, use magic device, lore, perform, and maybe, tumble. I would probably put my class as human for the extra feat and skillpoints.
Sorry if this is a little unorganized and I ramble or repeat some parts, but I am extremely tired right now.
EDIT: And with a keen rapier your critical threat (including the feat "Improved Critical") would be something around the lines of 15-20 or 14-20, which is totally awesome, and with devastating critical hit and a high ab (also bonused by buffs), not much will stand in the way of your character. Also your Bard will be able to suit up in Full Plate.
Edited By antmayfield on 03/10/05 03:54
Not a bad idea, but a few things:
1) Caster level has nothing to do with DC. Spell DC has to do with the level of the spell, the stat mod associated with casting (Cha for a Bard/Sorc), and any appropriate Spell Focus feats.
2) Bard doesn't get you any more weapon profienciencies. Both Sorcs and Bards get Simple Weapon Prof., although Bards do get shield prof., as well as medium armor, as you pointed out.
3) It's entirely possible to do a melee build with Sorc being the main class. Sure, a Bard build would get slightly better AB, and probably better AC (at least with items), but not necessarily better damage (Sorcs get Flame Weapon, as well as more reciprocal damage spells).
That said, going with Bard rather than Sorc would still allow you to make a strong melee build, although you would sacrifice a lot in the way of spell power.
Personally, I like the Sorc build better, but I guess it's sort of a matter of preference.
You guys gave me a lot to think about and I appreciate the info. I like the sorc build because I like spells and melee tends to get real boring. I love great cleave when they whack 3-4 monsters in a row, but still I like spells and their effects. What I want to do from this point on is try doing both, sorc for spells and then I will play with the bard for the song and melee capabilities. One thing I like about the bard build is that most of the protection spells that I use are below 6th level. Thanks again guys and I really thank you a lot.
