Im having a bit of trouble maximizing level 40 BAB and initial attack AB for arcane archer builds.

The best Ive been able to get so far was a BAB of 29, and an effective initial AB of around 66 or 68 (dont recall at the moment) with a +4 longbow and normal arrows.

I know its possible to break 30 BAB with an archer build, but all the ways I can see to do so require sacrificing things important to archers like reflex saves.

The build types I go with are generally rogue/wiz or bard/barbarian or bard/monk based and I shoot for at least 23 levels of arcane archer, 27 if I can manage them.

Frankly Ive given up on the idea of dev crit archers as the best threat range you can get with a bow is around 17-20, which with 4 to 6 attacks per round (haste, rapid shot) is a dubious idea at best, so maxed bab, maxed ab builds are the way to go.

The reason I push for such high attack ratings is to combat damage reduction and high ac builds, and the fact that a full 29 level arcane archer has +15 to damage with a normal arrow, enough to make all the devcrit melee demi-god wanna-bes cry 'mommy'.

If someone can give me a few tips on getting that 30 BAB with enchant arrow fifteen while maintaining the ability to dodge fireballs, etc I'd be really grateful. How about a build with more Fighter levels, with Weapon Specialisation and Epic Weapon Specialisation?

For example, look at Torias' Reliable Archer build?
_________________
Don't take life too serious. You won't survive it anyway!
Quote: Posted 05/12/05 12:35:35 (GMT) -- Elanthil Seldavius

Im having a bit of trouble maximizing level 40 BAB and initial attack AB for arcane archer builds.

The best Ive been able to get so far was a BAB of 29, and an effective initial AB of around 66 or 68 (dont recall at the moment) with a +4 longbow and normal arrows.

I know its possible to break 30 BAB with an archer build, but all the ways I can see to do so require sacrificing things important to archers like reflex saves.

The build types I go with are generally rogue/wiz or bard/barbarian or bard/monk based and I shoot for at least 23 levels of arcane archer, 27 if I can manage them.

Frankly Ive given up on the idea of dev crit archers as the best threat range you can get with a bow is around 17-20, which with 4 to 6 attacks per round (haste, rapid shot) is a dubious idea at best, so maxed bab, maxed ab builds are the way to go.

The reason I push for such high attack ratings is to combat damage reduction and high ac builds, and the fact that a full 29 level arcane archer has +15 to damage with a normal arrow, enough to make all the devcrit melee demi-god wanna-bes cry 'mommy'.

If someone can give me a few tips on getting that 30 BAB with enchant arrow fifteen while maintaining the ability to dodge fireballs, etc I'd be really grateful.

Your choices really are

X 10/wiz 1 /AA 29

Rogue will get you improved evasion and + 7 pre epic AB and 5d6 sneak attack damage.
Fighter will get you + 9 pre epic AB and +6 post epic damage.
Bard will get you +8 pre epic AB, will allow you to do 2 classes ,get some buff spells and give you bard sone +2 AB and +3 dmg.

Highest AB will be bard with bard song on.
Highest damage would be the rogue against non sneak immune
Highest damage non situational damage and AB would be Fighter.

Rogue is alone in getting improved evasion to avoid spells.

Syrath
_________________
It's SHADOWDANCER, dammit, shadowdancer!!!
Quote: Posted 05/12/05 12:35:35 (GMT) -- Elanthil Seldavius
The best Ive been able to get so far was a BAB of 29, and an effective initial AB of around 66 or 68 (dont recall at the moment) with a +4 longbow and normal arrows.

I know its possible to break 30 BAB with an archer build, but all the ways I can see to do so require sacrificing things important to archers like reflex saves.

It is not possible to break 30 BAB. Your BAB is only your attack bonus from your levels. It doesn't take anything else into consideration. Even the enchant arrow feats from Arcane Archer go to AB, not BAB. 29 BAB is pretty much the maximum you would get from an Arcane Archer build, since you need a level of wizard, bard, or sorcerer. The only way you could manage 30 BAB would be to take a fighter type (fighter, barbarian, paladin, ranger, etc.) for your first 20 levels, and then take one level of your arcane class and start taking arcane archer levels. But doing that would make the character a much weaker archer for much of its life (and overall as well), and is certainly not worth it for 1 BAB.

Quote: The build types I go with are generally rogue/wiz or bard/barbarian or bard/monk based and I shoot for at least 23 levels of arcane archer, 27 if I can manage them.

Frankly Ive given up on the idea of dev crit archers as the best threat range you can get with a bow is around 17-20, which with 4 to 6 attacks per round (haste, rapid shot) is a dubious idea at best, so maxed bab, maxed ab builds are the way to go.

I'm playing a rogue/wizard/arcane archer right now, and I'm finding it a lot of fun. The extra sneak damage is very helpful, and with evasion (soon to be improved evasion) and my killer reflex saves, I basically never take damage from reflex save spells.

Quote: The reason I push for such high attack ratings is to combat damage reduction and high ac builds, and the fact that a full 29 level arcane archer has +15 to damage with a normal arrow, enough to make all the devcrit melee demi-god wanna-bes cry 'mommy'.

If someone can give me a few tips on getting that 30 BAB with enchant arrow fifteen while maintaining the ability to dodge fireballs, etc I'd be really grateful.

Well...as I said before, 29 BAB is the best you're going to get. You'll need at least 29 levels of arcane archer to get the +15, which means you have to take at least one level of wizard, sorcerer, or bard pre-epic. But in order to get something like evasion to dodge fireballs completely as opposed to just taking half damage, you'd need to take something like rogue, shadowdancer, or monk, all of which would lower your AB further. You will have decent reflexes from 10 levels of arcane archer pre-epic though, especially with your high dex. If you want to maximize your AB as much as possible, start with an elf with 20 DEX, go fighter(9)/wizard(1)/Arcane Archer(10) pre-epic. Then take Arcane Archer all the way to 30 in epic levels. Put all your stat points into DEX, You'll have 12 epic feats (7 regular, 5 arcane archer bonus feats). Take Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Prowess, and then take Great Dexterity for all the rest of your epic feats (all 10). So you'll end with a Dex of 40.

AB = 29 (BAB) + 15 (from DEX) + 4 (from weapon focus, epic weapon focus, and epic prowess) + 15 (arcane archer enchant arrow XV) = 63 AB with a mundane bow.

Which sounds exactly like what you said you managed to get yourself before. I think you already know how to get the max possible AB out of an archer, You just didn't realize that was the best you could do.

Steve

Edit: Yeah, as Syrath pointed out, with Bard Song and Cat's Grace, a Bard could eke out another point of AB or so, although the Bard Song doesn't last very long.

Edited By Stravinsky00 on 05/12/05 17:03

16 Rogue/2 Wizard/22 AA is definitely the way to go since you can get Epic Dodge and 5 Self Concealments.
Quote: Posted 05/13/05 01:39:08 (GMT) -- Giantevilhead

16 Rogue/2 Wizard/22 AA is definitely the way to go since you can get Epic Dodge and 5 Self Concealments.

Yeah, the build I'm currently playing is leading toward Rogue(17)/Wizard(1)/Arcane Archer(22) (still debating whether that extra 1d6 sneak is really worth the one less AB) which will get Epic Dodge and Self Concealment V. So far it's at Rogue(9)/Wizard(1)/Arcane Archer(5), and it's working out quite nicely.

Steve
Quote: Posted 05/13/05 01:39:08 (GMT) -- Giantevilhead

16 Rogue/2 Wizard/22 AA is definitely the way to go since you can get Epic Dodge and 5 Self Concealments.

Im curious to see the levelling for this to get imp evasion, def roll and enough DEX to get all the SC feats before 40. I tried it but couldnt figure it out.

Syrath
_________________
It's SHADOWDANCER, dammit, shadowdancer!!!
Quote: Posted 05/13/05 07:01:51 (GMT) -- syrath1001

Quote: Posted 05/13/05 01:39:08 (GMT) -- Giantevilhead

16 Rogue/2 Wizard/22 AA is definitely the way to go since you can get Epic Dodge and 5 Self Concealments.

Im curious to see the levelling for this to get imp evasion, def roll and enough DEX to get all the SC feats before 40. I tried it but couldnt figure it out.

Syrath

Here:

Start with 20 DEX

1: Rogue(1) - Point Blank Shot
2: Rogue(2)
3: Rogue(3) - Rapid Shot
4: Rogue(4) - DEX 21
5: Rogue(5)
6: Rogue(6) - Weap. Foc. (Longbow)
7: Rogue(7)
8: Rogue(8) - DEX 22
9: Wizard(1) - Called Shot
10: A.A.(1)
11: A.A.(2)
12: A.A.(3) - Imp. Crit. (Longbow) - DEX 23
13: Rogue(9)
14: A.A.(4)
15: A.A.(5) - Toughness
16: A.A.(6) - DEX 24
17: A.A.(7)
18: Wizard(2) - Dodge
19: A.A.(8)
20: A.A.(9) - DEX 25
21: A.A.(10) - Great Dex I - DEX 26
22: Rogue(10) - Improved Evasion
23: Rogue(11)
24: Rogue(12) - Great Dex II - DEX 28
25: A.A.(11)
26: A.A.(12)
27: Rogue(13) - Def. Roll, Epic Dodge
28: A.A.(13) - DEX 29
29: A.A.(14) - Great Dex III - DEX 30
30: A.A.(15) - SC I
31: A.A.(16)
32: A.A.(17) - DEX 31
33: Rogue(14) - SC II
34: A.A.(18) - Epic Weap. Foc. (Longbow)
35: A.A.(19)
36: A.A.(20) - SC III - DEX 32
37: Rogue(15)
38: A.A.(21)
39: A.A.(22) - SC IV, Great Dex IV - DEX 33
40: Rogue(16) - SC V - DEX 34

Steve

Edited By Stravinsky00 on 05/13/05 07:52

Quote: Posted 05/13/05 07:48:59 (GMT) -- Stravinsky00

Quote: Posted 05/13/05 07:01:51 (GMT) -- syrath1001

Quote: Posted 05/13/05 01:39:08 (GMT) -- Giantevilhead

16 Rogue/2 Wizard/22 AA is definitely the way to go since you can get Epic Dodge and 5 Self Concealments.

Im curious to see the levelling for this to get imp evasion, def roll and enough DEX to get all the SC feats before 40. I tried it but couldnt figure it out.

Syrath

Here:

Start with 20 DEX

1: Rogue(1) - Point Blank Shot
2: Rogue(2)
3: Rogue(3) - Rapid Shot
4: Rogue(4) - DEX 21
5: Rogue(5)
6: Rogue(6) - Weap. Foc. (Longbow)
7: Rogue(7)
8: Rogue(8) - DEX 22
9: Wizard(1) - Called Shot
10: A.A.(1)
11: A.A.(2)
12: A.A.(3) - Imp. Crit. (Longbow) - DEX 23
13: Rogue(9)
14: A.A.(4)
15: A.A.(5) - Toughness
16: A.A.(6) - DEX 24
17: A.A.(7)
18: Wizard(2) - Dodge
19: A.A.(8)
20: A.A.(9) - DEX 25
21: A.A.(10) - Great Dex I - DEX 26
22: Rogue(10) - Improved Evasion
23: Rogue(11)
24: Rogue(12) - Great Dex II - DEX 28
25: A.A.(11)
26: A.A.(12)
27: Rogue(13) - Def. Roll, Epic Dodge
28: A.A.(13) - DEX 29
29: A.A.(14) - Great Dex III - DEX 30
30: A.A.(15) - SC I
31: A.A.(16)
32: A.A.(17) - DEX 31
33: Rogue(14) - SC II
34: A.A.(18) - Epic Weap. Foc. (Longbow)
35: A.A.(19)
36: A.A.(20) - SC III - DEX 32
37: Rogue(15)
38: A.A.(21)
39: A.A.(22) - SC IV, Great Dex IV - DEX 33
40: Rogue(16) - SC V - DEX 34

Steve

Thanks and nice build btw.

Syrath
_________________
It's SHADOWDANCER, dammit, shadowdancer!!!