I'm updating my king of pain build so I have two variants I've made but I'm not sure which is better. Perhaps some of the other builders could help me out and I'll do the write up and post the build
King of Pain V. 2 a)
Race Human
Alignment Lawful Good (change to lawful evil between level 16 and 17, then to lawful neutral between 29 and 30 and back to lawful good by level 40)
Base Attributes STR 15 DEX 8 CON 10 WIS 14 INT 12 CHA 16
Final Level Distribution Blackguard 13 Champion of Torm 10 Paladin 17
Attribute Bonuses Levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24 and 28 go to CHA Levels 32, 36 and 40 go to STR
Feats Level 1: Weapon Focus (Longsword), Power Attack Level 3: Divine Might Level 6: Divine Shield Level 9: Knockdown Level 12: Improved Critical (Longsword) Level 15: Cleave Level 18: Extra Smiting Level 21: Epic Weapon Focus (Longsword) Level 24: Great Charisma I Level 27: Great Charisma II Level 29: Epic Prowess Level 30: Great Charisma III Level 31: Great Smiting I Level 33: Great Smiting II, Great Smiting III Level 35: Great Smiting IV Level 36: Great Smiting V Level 37: Great Smiting VI Level 39: Great Smiting VII, Great Smiting VIII
Final Attributes STR 18 DEX 8 CON 10 WIS 14 INT 12 CHA 26
Hit points 400 (max every level)
Final Saves (Sacred Defense) Fortitude 40/45 Reflexes 31/36 Will 34/39
AB and Damage
(without items or buffs, normal longsword) 38/33/28/23 4+1D8 (17-20 x2) (+4D6 sneak attack)
(with +10 STR [Bull's Strength x2], +8 CHA [Eagle's Spendor and Aura of Glory], divine favor, divine might, divine wrath, bless, prayer, holy sword, bless weapon, regular longsword) 60/55/50/45 15+1D8 (+5 magic, +17 [+1D6 vs. evil, +2D6 vs. undead] divine, dispel on hit DC 26) (17-20 x2) (+4D6 sneak attack)
AC 24 (With full plate and tower shield, no buffs) 64 (With +4 to DEX, +12 to CHA, Divine Shield, +5 full plate, +5 tower shield, boots of speed, +5 amulet of natural armor, +5 ring of protection)
Final Level Distribution Blackguard 16 Fighter 4 Paladin 20
Attribute Bonuses Levels 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24 and 28 go to STR Levels 32, 36 and 40 go to CHA
Feats Level 1: Weapon Focus (Scimitar), Power Attack Level 3: Divine Might Level 6: Divine Shield Level 9: Knockdown Level 12: Improved Critical (Scimitar) Level 15: Cleave Level 18: Great Cleave Level 21: Great Strength I, Epic Weapon Focus (Scimitar) Level 24: Great Strength II Level 27: Great Strength III Level 30: Great Charisma I, Overwhelming Critical (Scimitar) Level 31: Devastating Critical (Scimitar) Level 33: Great Charisma II Level 34: Epic Prowess Level 36: Weapon Specialization (Scimitar), Epic Weapon Specialization (Scimitar) Level 39: Great Charisma III
Final Attributes STR 26 DEX 8 CON 12 WIS 14 INT 12 CHA 20
Hit points 440 (max every level)
Final Saves (with +12 to CHA) Fortitude 35/47 Reflexes 25/37 Will 28/40
AB and Damage
(without items or buffs, normal scimitar) 42/37/32/28 14+1D6 (15-20 x2) (+5D6 sneak attack) Devastating Critical DC 38
(with +10 STR [Bull's Strength x2], +8 CHA [Eagle's Spendor and Aura of Glory], aid, deafening clang, divine favor, divine might, bless, prayer, holy sword, bless weapon, regular scimitar) 60/55/50/45 25+1D6 (+5 magic, +3 sonic, +9 [+1D6 vs. evil, +2D6 vs. undead] divine, deafen on hit, dispel on hit DC 26) (15-20 x2) (+5D6 sneak attack) Devastating Critical DC 43
AC 24 (With full plate and tower shield, no buffs) 61 (With +4 to DEX, +12 to CHA, Divine Shield, +5 full plate, +5 tower shield, boots of speed, +5 amulet of natural armor, +5 ring of protection)
I have done part of the write up for each of the builds, but I'd rather the community evaluate them without my prejudices before I make a decision. I also welcome any comments, critiques or suggestions. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Edited By Mithdradates on 06/04/05 14:33
I've looked at KoP 2a.
I think it is a strong build and only have some minor comments.
If I should play the levels I'd prefer to take cleave earlier. I suggest taking cleave at lvl 1 or 3. Divine shield can wait until later, lvl 15 perhaps.
If you plan on using divine might/shield a lot consider taking extra turning for more uses per day.
I guess you have taken 13 lvls of BG to get 4d6 sneak attack bonus and one bonus feat. If you take 4 lvls of BG and 26 lvls of paladin instead, you only get 1d6 sneak bonus, but that is compensated with two bonus feats and full paladin spellslot progression. 4 levels of BG will give you the most important class feats IMO. _________________ I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it...
If I should play the levels I'd prefer to take cleave earlier. I suggest taking cleave at lvl 1 or 3. Divine shield can wait until later, lvl 15 perhaps.
I guess this is a matter of personal preference. I find the extra AC from divine shield to be more useful at the lower levels. I never got much mileage out of cleave, except with devastating critical builds.
Quote: If you plan on using divine might/shield a lot consider taking extra turning for more uses per day.
I wanted to, but I didn't see any feats I could really drop. The smites and buffs don't last that long, so I figured that this build would be resting frequently and didn't really need it.
Quote: I guess you have taken 13 lvls of BG to get 4d6 sneak attack bonus and one bonus feat. If you take 4 lvls of BG and 26 lvls of paladin instead, you only get 1d6 sneak bonus, but that is compensated with two bonus feats and full paladin spellslot progression. 4 levels of BG will give you the most important class feats IMO.
The other reason was the smite good damage, with 13 levels he gets 117 points of bonus damage on a smite good (he has 243 on a smite evil). If you went with 26 levels of paladin he would get, 36 points of damage on a smite good and 324 on a smite evil. It might be worth it, but I'll have to give it some thought. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
I think it is hard to compare the two because they focus differently.
Both are great builds and i think that it is personal preference only that changes these builds.
Post both of them IMO.
I think cleave is best in the early lvls when you only have 1 attack per round and get 2 attacks if you kill someone.
The effect of the divine feats is in a way proportional to the square of your charisma bonus - (cha depending bonus x cha depending duration). So they become much better later in the game when you get a higher charisma.
But I guess the setting in which you play your character to some degree dictates what you really need at different levels.
I didn't think of smite good when I wrote the above post. You have a good point there. _________________ I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it...