I beleive that you can change into a dragon with any of the two, but which one would be better? Well, unless you are talking about a PRC build, which you should probably specify, then a cleric can't become a shifter unless you pick up 5 druid levels as well. So, you should probably clarify whether you meant a cleric/druid/shifter build or you wanted builds using the PRC.

Steve Even with the PRC cleric does not give access to the PnP Shifter class so cleric/shifter is not going to be an option unless you take a race like Rakshasa or Pixie or class like Werewolf that gives access to the PnP shifter. Without the PRC druid/shifter is the best option although druid/cleric could get the druid animal/elemental and dragon shapes.
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Quote: Posted 07/15/05 00:02:13 (GMT) -- Amazon Queen
Even with the PRC cleric does not give access to the PnP Shifter class so cleric/shifter is not going to be an option unless you take a race like Rakshasa or Pixie or class like Werewolf that gives access to the PnP shifter.

Actually, that's incorrect. A level 9 cleric with the animal domain can take the shifter class regardless of race, because that gives you access to Polymorph Self as a domain spell. That's what I was referring to. Although your ways would be other ways a cleric could become a shifter.

Steve

Edited By Stravinsky00 on 07/15/05 04:32

Quote: Posted 07/15/05 04:30:54 (GMT) -- Stravinsky00

Quote: Posted 07/15/05 00:02:13 (GMT) -- Amazon Queen
Even with the PRC cleric does not give access to the PnP Shifter class so cleric/shifter is not going to be an option unless you take a race like Rakshasa or Pixie or class like Werewolf that gives access to the PnP shifter.

Actually, that's incorrect. A level 9 cleric with the animal domain can take the shifter class regardless of race, because that gives you access to Polymorph Self as a domain spell. That's what I was referring to. Although your ways would be other ways a cleric could become a shifter.

Steve

First, let's assume, since this isnt in prc, that thats not an option. Steve, WHAT are you talking about? The ability to cast poly self has NO bearing on becoming a shifter! Wildshape + alertness are what allow you to become a shifter! I just ran it through to lv 15 and still NO shifter. Maybe, somewhere in a long forgotten world of pnp does a cleric get to be a shifter, OR in the land or PRC is this relevant, but THIS is basic nwn, not dungeons and dragons or prc. Thanks for the input though.

If you can somehow get a cleric to be a shifter without 5 druid lvls LIKE YOU SUGGEST, please post it. Do i have to point out that I'm not interested in how you can do this in prc... since this isnt that forum!

NOw, to answer the question asked: IT DEPENDS on how you want to play (man i have been typing that alot recently). If you are looking for a buffed dragon, a cleric druid shifter (18/5/17) would be adequate. If you are looking for a tough dragon, stick with dru/shifter as your dragon toughness is related to those classes. Ask me how and you will get a blank stare! I know of that someone here can give you the ratios, but its not I.

My advice to all new players: determine if you like melee or casting, THEN and ONLY THEN, start looking for builds. OTherwise its too hard for anyone to suggest anything.

Peace
Quote: Posted 07/15/05 07:45:49 (GMT) -- avado

Quote: Posted 07/15/05 04:30:54 (GMT) -- Stravinsky00

Quote: Posted 07/15/05 00:02:13 (GMT) -- Amazon Queen
Even with the PRC cleric does not give access to the PnP Shifter class so cleric/shifter is not going to be an option unless you take a race like Rakshasa or Pixie or class like Werewolf that gives access to the PnP shifter.

Actually, that's incorrect. A level 9 cleric with the animal domain can take the shifter class regardless of race, because that gives you access to Polymorph Self as a domain spell. That's what I was referring to. Although your ways would be other ways a cleric could become a shifter.

Steve

First, let's assume, since this isnt in prc, that thats not an option. Steve, WHAT are you talking about? The ability to cast poly self has NO bearing on becoming a shifter! Wildshape + alertness are what allow you to become a shifter! I just ran it through to lv 15 and still NO shifter. Maybe, somewhere in a long forgotten world of pnp does a cleric get to be a shifter, OR in the land or PRC is this relevant, but THIS is basic nwn, not dungeons and dragons or prc. Thanks for the input though.

If you can somehow get a cleric to be a shifter without 5 druid lvls LIKE YOU SUGGEST, please post it. Do i have to point out that I'm not interested in how you can do this in prc... since this isnt that forum!

NOw, to answer the question asked: IT DEPENDS on how you want to play (man i have been typing that alot recently). If you are looking for a buffed dragon, a cleric druid shifter (18/5/17) would be adequate. If you are looking for a tough dragon, stick with dru/shifter as your dragon toughness is related to those classes. Ask me how and you will get a blank stare! I know of that someone here can give you the ratios, but its not I.

My advice to all new players: determine if you like melee or casting, THEN and ONLY THEN, start looking for builds. OTherwise its too hard for anyone to suggest anything.

Peace

Avado, I would suggest you refrain from posting if it stresses you out too much like this. Get a grip.

I don't think a cleric can become a shifter, and show me how would have been a simple enough a reply.

Now as to the question, this may be a newbie question, and myself never created a shifter so it's legitimate - so I can't see why your advice has any bearing whatsoever on the question that was asked. If you have experience, and feel you can tell something constructive about it, then do it. REQUIREMENTS:
Spellcasting: 3rd level spells.
Feats: Alertness, Endurance
Special: You must be able to assume an alternate form. See the following list:
Arcane Classes: The ability to cast the 4th level spell Polymorph Self.
Druid: Level 5 or higher.
Ranger: Level 15 or higher.
Cleric: Animal domain and the ability to cast level 5 spells.
Ninja Spy: Level 7 or higher.
Initiate of Draconic Mysteries: Level 10 or higher.
Bonded Summoner: Level 10 or higher.
Werewolf: Level 1 or higher.
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Quote: Posted 07/15/05 13:17:34 (GMT) -- Kaelaenn Mort'Noire

REQUIREMENTS:
Spellcasting: 3rd level spells.
Feats: Alertness, Endurance
Special: You must be able to assume an alternate form. See the following list:
Arcane Classes: The ability to cast the 4th level spell Polymorph Self.
Druid: Level 5 or higher.
Ranger: Level 15 or higher.
Cleric: Animal domain and the ability to cast level 5 spells.
Ninja Spy: Level 7 or higher.
Initiate of Draconic Mysteries: Level 10 or higher.
Bonded Summoner: Level 10 or higher.
Werewolf: Level 1 or higher.

Umm.. This is all well and good, but alas, this is NOT prc. I have played the game for 3 years now and have yet to see a ninja spy or werewolf class. The ONLY requirements for a SHIFTER are ALErTNESS and WILDSHAPE! The ONLY class that has access to WILDSHAPE is DRUID. Trust me! I tried the polyself cleric and its a no Like it or not, and I have looked at the prc game, it is NOT biowares game, which is what THIS forum is for. In prc, im sure you can do lots of things!

If I am mistaken by the fact that this was posted outside of prc forums, please let me know.

And, excuse me? I am not frustrated in posting things here. All i suggested was that this particular poster should get a feel for how they like to play the nwn game. That was all. Then, with that info, posting a question that can be answered in the best interests of the poster becomes easy. Otherwise, the question is impossible to answer, and becomes a case of, "i like this.." "I like that.." and it doesnt answer the question posted. Any build that is made intelligently can be enjoyable or not if it doesnt suit your personality or play style. That is all i was saying.

Edited By avado on 07/16/05 01:38

Wow, I had know Idea this would turn into a touchy issue.I have another question though. I got tenth level spells for my wizard, and I got a spell that would allow me to change forms. There was dragon, balor, and some other stuff. But I was never able to change into the dragon. Did my alignment have anything to do with that? Avado, I'm totally at a loss as to why you feel the need to be obnoxious in so many of your posts. As a prior poster pointed out, your could have made your point far more effectively if you weren't intentionally rude about it. And anyway, it's not like giving the poster PRC information after having said it was based on the PRC's PnP Shifter and not the Bioware shifter is some horrific sin that needs to be punished or something. It's just giving them another option that they might be interested in, even if you aren't. Your attitude toward your fellow guild members is offensive, completely uncalled for, and utterly ridiculous. I highly doubt you would expect/want us to treat your suggestions in such a manner if we disagreed with them.

Steve

Edited By Stravinsky00 on 07/18/05 06:15

Avado, all suggestions are welcome in here. Even the PrC. The one of the rule(s) states that if you are planning to post your own build... it needs to be original NWN for the ECB form... and those with PrC in it... anything that is from PrC... would need to be posted in the PrC ECB forum.

And this is build request forum... anything goes in here.

Also, the PrC is not a game... it is an addition to the existing game to improve options that you have when building a build. If you want to have werewolf class... look into the PrC, they have them, I am sure they are adding ninja class as well.

And, please, tone down the posts, meaning unnecessary caps, and so forth. It is forum to improve the build, or offer insights about what builds that may suit the need to build the particular build that the posters want. If he wants the cleric shifter, then anyone can suggest a PrC build and then post it in the apporiate PrC forum. And same with Cleric/druid... if there are builds that suits his needs.. then post the links to it.

Just don't want to have another flame war or any of that sort in here again like before... I am sure many remember that.

Thank you all.

Anuis
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Edited By Anuis on 07/18/05 16:49

I didn't know that you had to have wildshape before you could be a shifter. I guess it will just be a cleric/druid build. Either way, I hope I can change into a bloody dragon
Quote: Posted 07/21/05 17:10:13 (GMT) -- Rileigh

I didn't know that you had to have wildshape before you could be a shifter. I guess it will just be a cleric/druid build. Either way, I hope I can change into a bloody dragon

Yes, you can be a dragon without shifter. Just need 30 wisdom and a decent amount of druid levels, and must be in epic levels. Something like 15-16 levels, not sure exactly. The manual/Grimoire says you need Wildshape 6x/day, which is druid 18, but I know you can do it with less than that.

Steve Druid 14 iirc..

-DaMouse Just a note. All you need to be a dragon is druid and 30 wisdom. The shifter/druid dragon only has a slightly better breath weapon. The best dragon builds have no shifter at all. This is NON-PRC.