I don't really see any Wiz/SD builds. Or am I better off going with the "Arcane Trebuchet" that is pure wiz? Would it be able to stand up to the "Exalted Sorc" build?

I prefer wiz to sorc just because of the variety but I've heard the "Exalted Sorc" is probally the best mage build. I love telling this story;
Think of casters as caped heros. A Wizard is like Batman, strategic, preparing the right spells for the occasion and deeply knowledgeable of the art.
A sorc is more like Superman. He can only do a few things well, but he can do them all day long.
The tradeoff is versatile vs. user-friendly. if you like knowing your limits and powering through obstacles, dorc is for you. If you like to attack a situation from the best possible angle, go with wizard. Dunnna nunna nunna nunna
Dunnna nunna nunna nunna
BATMAN!

Wizard.. uhm.. 38 Wizard 1 Fighter 1 Monk? if you wanted to get up close and personal to the exalted sorc.. that's pretty much wizard clone of it without the pally saves..

I like Wizard 28 PM 10 SD 2 but that has a few to few caster levels to really pose much of a threat to the exalted..

-DaMouse Wizard 39/Bard 1(At 37 or later) gives him access to the best skillset available, he also has 1 more caster level than the exalted sorc and frees 4 feats (I dislike casters on armor).

Wizard 38/Ftr 1(At 20)/Bard 1(>=37) makes a similar build to the sorceress without the extra saves.

What I like about taking that PG bard level is the fact that the best base 0 armor (No arcane casting failure) is made for monks, with a level of bard at 37 (or 38 if you have 8 cha), you can take your effective UMD to 40 and be able to use good equip that wont make you need to invest the still spell ones (trade them for quicken or silent spells).

If you want to stand an exalted sorceress you wont need an armor, they will rarely enter melee, and if they do their AB and damage will stink unless they use true strike, that would give you enough time to fry them.
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HEAD KNIGHT: Shh shh. We are now the Knights Who Say Ekke ekke ekke ptang zoo boing!
RANDOM: Ni! Okay dumb question: They why take Bard, why not 1 lvl of Monk? The Monk's one has Tumble and Discipline (These are the ones I find interesting here).

Bard's skillset has Spellcraft, Tumble, Use Magical Device and Discipline (These are the ones I find interesting here), also gets 2 extra skillpoints comparing it with monk ( I had to say it).

Wizard has spellcraft, so there is no need for it with bard, but it can help .

It is just matter of taste, if taking monk you will switch UMD (a very useful skill) for adding your wis modifier to your AC (it can be good in low magic worlds), cleave and improved unarmed fighting (As a mage you will be using a staff for it's magic properties, no need for brawling nor meleeing).

Except for the fact that you can add your wis modifier to your AC, monk doesn't add anything new over bard.

The Exalted sorceress uses monk because alignment, paladin must be Lawful good, and bard needs to be nonlawful (neutral or chaotic).
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HEAD KNIGHT: Shh shh. We are now the Knights Who Say Ekke ekke ekke ptang zoo boing!
RANDOM: Ni!

Edited By fernandooa on 08/19/05 13:00

Monks get Evasion at level 1.. Bards do not..

-DaMouse
Quote: Posted 08/19/05 13:25:24 (GMT) -- DaMouse404
Monks get Evasion at level 1.. Bards do not..
-DaMouse
I didn't remember that one. *blushes*
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HEAD KNIGHT: Shh shh. We are now the Knights Who Say Ekke ekke ekke ptang zoo boing!
RANDOM: Ni!
Quote: Posted 08/19/05 12:58:44 (GMT) -- fernandooa

The Monk's one has Tumble and Discipline (These are the ones I find interesting here).

Bard's skillset has Spellcraft, Tumble, Use Magical Device and Discipline (These are the ones I find interesting here), also gets 2 extra skillpoints comparing it with monk ( I had to say it).

Monks and Bards get the same number of skill points.

Quote: Wizard has spellcraft, so there is no need for it with bard, but it can help .

It is just matter of taste, if taking monk you will switch UMD (a very useful skill) for adding your wis modifier to your AC (it can be good in low magic worlds), cleave and improved unarmed fighting (As a mage you will be using a staff for it's magic properties, no need for brawling nor meleeing).

Except for the fact that you can add your wis modifier to your AC, monk doesn't add anything new over bard.

The Exalted sorceress uses monk because alignment, paladin must be Lawful good, and bard needs to be nonlawful (neutral or chaotic).

It pains me to say this (as I hate monks), but Monk is probably a better choice than Bard.

If you're not going to go the Autostill route and wear armor, then UMD is really only needed to access the Monk gear, which you'll be able to do with the Monk level. Also, Evasion is much more valuable than the Bard's skillset, as Monks get Discipline and Tumble as well.

Spellcraft probably won't need to be maxed to 43, depending on your Wizzie's INT modifier, so that's another reason Bard could be considered superfluous.

Finally, the Monk's WIS boost to AC is something that can be capitalized on with Empowered Owl's spells and/or WIS boosting items. Overall, I'd say go with *choke, gasp, wheeze* Monk.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 08/19/05 15:39:07 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din

Quote: Posted 08/19/05 12:58:44 (GMT) -- fernandooa

The Monk's one has Tumble and Discipline (These are the ones I find interesting here).

Bard's skillset has Spellcraft, Tumble, Use Magical Device and Discipline (These are the ones I find interesting here), also gets 2 extra skillpoints comparing it with monk ( I had to say it).

Monks and Bards get the same number of skill points.

Yeah, IIRC, bard's getting 6 skill points instead of 4 is one of the 3.5E changes that we won't see until NWN2. Or with any module using the Enhanced Magic System by Arqon, which implements that.

Steve Hmmm... I think next time I should think things better. I agree, I was wrong with bard vs monk here. My fault. Next time I will think things better before posting and probably leading someone to commit a mistake .
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HEAD KNIGHT: Shh shh. We are now the Knights Who Say Ekke ekke ekke ptang zoo boing!
RANDOM: Ni! I don't mind doing a pure wiz ie Arcane Trebechet if it's the best wiz build, just wondering cause I play on a pretty tough server.

What is the best wiz build?
Quote: Posted 08/19/05 12:58:44 (GMT) -- fernandooa

The Exalted sorceress uses monk because alignment, paladin must be Lawful good, and bard needs to be nonlawful (neutral or chaotic).
From the exalted sorceress description:

"The Exalted Sorceress has one level of monk to help her maximize such skills as discipline and tumble, but, more importantly, she gains feats like Evasion. Evasion will allow her to take no damage from spells that allow a reflex save if she succeeds at her saving throw. With a base reflex score of 27 (naked) and her spellcraft bonus of +8, the Exalted Sorceress can reliably Evade most reflex saving throw spells. This is a very nice boost to her defense and allows her to not fear many Evocation spells that other wizards or sorcerers use"

EDIT: besides, alignment changes are hardly an issue for epic characters builders

Edited By Kail Pendragon on 10/28/05 01:23

37 wiz/3 rogue/1 sd

3 rogue for Uncanny, SD for HiPS. It's alot more playable than the exalted build for PvM's. Well, atleast in the PvM's that I've tried it in. Wiz 37, SD 1, Rogue 2

Rogue 2 gives uncanny, not Rogue 3. I think it's 3 Rogue for uncanny. Rogues get it later than SDs and Assassins IIRC.
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.:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in
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(|__|)
.."..".. It is Rogue 3 for uncanny dodge. SD and assassin get it 1 lvl earlier The ES has focused on getting higher AC, better discipline and concentration, better saves, and evasion. Much of her qualities serve to defend her against physical attacks.
As a caster, she has epic focus in necromancy and 38 caster lvls. Her cha at lvl 40 is 30. Not shabby, but not extrordinary.
Her weakness is low HPs (256)
Her defense against casters is: High saves and evasion, improved combat casting and spells.
Against a high lvl caster, spellmantle, shadowshield, lesser mind blank and energy buffer are her best pure defensive spells. Sha has some spells that defends against low lvl magic as well, like minor globe against flame arrow.

If I were to fight her with a wizard, I would have made a pure wizard with Auto Quicken III and high spell penetration.
I'd start with time stop and follow with a couple of high lvl spells to wear down the spell mantle. Then I would recast TS or Bigby (7 or 9) and finish her off with non save spells like IGMS.
The outcome of the fight depends on who's the quickest gun-slinger. If she's hasted, she can win, otherwise, she's dead.
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