I have been thinking about playing a fighter on one of the servers I play on. I think I have a pretty good build here except for maybe some of my feat choices. There is a level cap at 13, but sometimes you are allowed to go over that.
Anyways, my question is basically whether or not I should get Luck of Heroes and Iron Will instead of Lightning Reflexes and Iron Will. The reason I kind of hesitate to get Luck of Heroes instead of Lightning Reflex is because with the lvl 13 cap, I will probably have to get one of my feats at lvl 14, most likely Improved Expertise. Would taking LR+IW be on par with LoH+IW? Or would it end up being weaker?
Also if anyone has any other suggestions I would appreciate it.
Here is the actual build: STR16 DEX13 CON16 INT13 WIS8 CHA8
Skills: All go into: Discipline, Heal, Tumble, and Spellcraft.
-Thanks.
Are you married to katanas? You'd free up a feat by dropping exotic proficiency.
When you think about it, a katana's average diceroll damage is only 1 point over a longsword, and magic longswords tend to be more power and more common than practically any other weapon type.
I guess if your server has a high powered katana you'll want to keep it but otherwise it's something to consider.
Since you have a small dex bonus you'll probably find it's close to a wash between lightning reflexes and luck of heroes. You gain a point in your will save - which will be your lowest by far - and lose a point in your reflex save.
I'd say it's worth it unless mind spell immunity items are available. Otherwise, will saves are what resist ugly things like fear and stun/daze/etc. A mighty fighter who gets disabled by almost any mind attack is going to have a really tough time fighting a lot of enemies.
If you're concerned about your saves, switch to Champion of Torm at level 8. You'll get the same bonus feats but +1 to your saves every 2 levels. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
I probably won't be able to get CoT levels because these require approval as well... So, are you saying that it would be worth taking Improved Expertise after the level cap to get Luck of Heroes over Lightning Reflexes(Which means I may or may not ever be able to get it)? Or are you saying that I should get rid of Weapon Focus:Katana (Was thinking of a scimitar if I didn't get that) and get Luck of Heroes in its place and keep Imp Expertise? I would think that having a Katana would be better than just +1 to saves, but I don't know. Also, aren't more things reflex based anyways? Thanks for the reply
I probably won't be able to get CoT levels because these require approval as well...
Bummer, but still, something to try for. Once you have 4 levels of fighter (weapon specialization) the only reason not to be a COT is if you can't (don't meet prereqs, already have 3 classes, requires approval) or are a dualwielder (fighters get dualwield feats as bonus feats, COTs don't).
Quote: So, are you saying that it would be worth taking Improved Expertise after the level cap to get Luck of Heroes over Lightning Reflexes(Which means I may or may not ever be able to get it)?
Improved Expertise isn't a very useful feat for a fighter in my opinion. You sacrifice 10 AB for 10 AC... unless you plan on being the tank for a party who's doing damage from behind you, how do you expect to kill anything? Especially because a fighter in plate with a tower shield will have more AC than any other level 20-or-under character with the same +s to equipment.
Normal expertise is a good feat for a fighter since it preserves enough of your AB to hit things with at least as reliably as a rogue, while improving your survivability. This makes it good for crowds when solo. But improved expertise just takes so much off the AB that you, at best, end up in a stalemate - they can't kill you very fast but you aren't killing them either. Anything you can hit often with -10 to your AB is trivial and probably can't hit you enough to hurt you even if your AC is 10 points lower.
Bumper Sticker: Improved Expertise is a loser feat in almost every solo situation, and many team ones too. Easily sacrificed IMO.
Quote: Or are you saying that I should get rid of Weapon Focus:Katana (Was thinking of a scimitar if I didn't get that) and get Luck of Heroes in its place and keep Imp Expertise?
A katana is 1d10 (19-20 x2). A longsword is 1d8 (19-20 x2). A scimitar is 1d6 (18-20 x2). As you can see the katana and the longsword are almost identical - the only difference is that the katana has a slightly higher base damage. The scimitar is different - it's got less damage but a larger critical threat range.
Going from a katana to a scimitar is losing 2 average damage per hit in return for a larger critical threat range and a feat. Going from a katana to a longsword would be losing 1 average damage per hit in return for a feat.
Generally speaking, losing 1 or 2 points of damage per hit is worth freeing up the feat when you are looking at a level 14 cap. The damage dice of a weapon is one of its least important attributes, to be blunt, the majority of your character's damage will come from strength bonus, enhancement bonus, specializaton bonus, and elemental bonus. The weapon's dice are just icing.
The extended crit range from the scimitar will probably turn out best for you at higher levels (when you have improved critical and have more bonus damage).
Quote: I would think that having a Katana would be better than just +1 to saves, but I don't know. Also, aren't more things reflex based anyways? Thanks for the reply
As noted you aren't losing much by changing, once you get into using magic weapons and buffed strength, the katana isn't really better. You'll do good damage regardless of what weapon you use, and you'll have good AC without improved expertise.
What you won't have is good defenses against magic, which is why you want to free exotic proficiency and improved expertise (unless it's seriously needed for the environment), and get luck of heroes and move either lightning reflexes or iron will to where improved expertise was.
Reflex saves are generally against damage, will saves are generally against mind affecting or death magic. You'll have a lot of hitpoints so while you don't want to ignore damage spells, you at least have a backup defense against them and they won't necessarily knock you out of the fight.
If you get Paralyzed, Stunned, Blinded, or Feared (let alone instant-killed) it will be disabling, however. And one of the most common enemy types - undead - tend to have attacks or auras that require will saves. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Alright, that seems to be some pretty solid advice. Thanks. One question I would have is that when extending this build above the cap up to 20, should I be replacing Great Cleave with something else? Also should I be trying get Iron Will before Blindfight as well? I tried changing the level progression to get the feats you suggested, here is what I ended up with:
Edit: Seems I can't get LR and Great Fortitude at the same level. Guess I will have to move Blind Fight back to level 18 anyways and Lightning Reflexes to 15 anyways. Won't have any choice about when I get Blindfight, it seems, unless I get it at 20 instead.
Edited By OMGZERGRUSHWTF on 10/27/05 23:48
Neither LR nor Great Fortitude are a fighter bonus feat so you can't have them both on the same lvl up
Yeah I just realized that.
I guess maybe Improved Expertise would be useful taken at 18th or 20th level. I could take Imp EX at 18 and then Blindfight at 20. Or vice versa. By then my AB should be high enough to hit most stuff, since the highest AC possible on this server is about 40.
Edited By OMGZERGRUSHWTF on 10/28/05 00:39
Edit: Just wondering if there is a better feat I should be taking instead of Imp Ex to replace Great Cleave?
Called shot is not bad
Called shot is a useful feat. You might also consider spring attack if you get sick of provoking AOOs from moving and can't afford to crossclass tumble. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Perhaps it is my own likings (I am sure it is). But when I am making a build with only 1 or 2 classes I feel like I can give it a bit more of cheese.
Have you considered adding a single bard and a single barbarian level?.
A single barbarian level could give you 10% extra movement speed. It is not much but it can help you, and a single bard level could help you getting tumble to 20, that means 4 more AC, and, if going human you could also take spellcraft to 20, that is +4 to all your saves vs spells. Plus they give you a (very) weak bardsong and a single rage per day at the cost of 1 AB and a Feat.
IMHO no feat can give you +4 to saves, a decent chance to avoid attacks of opportunity, +4 AC and once-per-rest buffs that could give you a further +1 to will saves and +1 to damage and AB. You could forget about the mobility feat as you have +20 tumble (It will not work always, but will be of some use).
For attacks of opportunity I would take it to 23, with your dex bonus it would be 24, IIRC a full plate will give you a -8 penalty and the tower shield another -3, that means your "effective" tumble will be 13, that means you have a 90% chance of avoiding an attack of opportunity with tumble, and only 10% will be checked vs your AC.
It wont give you any xp penalty nor anything.
It would work mostly with human because the extra skillpoints. _________________ HEAD KNIGHT: Shh shh. We are now the Knights Who Say Ekke ekke ekke ptang zoo boing! RANDOM: Ni!
I guess the only problem with doing that is that the server has a cap around 13 and each level over that has to be gained via a token. So sometimes you would be going over the cap and you wouldn't know when your final level would be, I guess. But maybe I would just do that if I got to lvl 20? Highly unlikely but feasible.
Edited By OMGZERGRUSHWTF on 10/29/05 21:47
Armor check penalty on a tower shield is a whopping -10. With full plate, that's a total of -18, so with Tumble maxed, you'd have a modified 6 score, meaning you need to roll a 9 or better, so a 60% chance of avoiding AoOs.
Remember, though, Tumble avoids AoOs for moving in combat, not for any other types of AoOs you may generate, so it's nice, but not a huge deal. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
I heard somewhere that there might be other combos that would be stronger than just plain fighter levels. One of them I heard about was Rogue4/Barb5/Fighter4 by level 13. Increases to Rogue4/Barb12/Fighter4 by level 20. Anyone know whether it would be better to drop the barb levels and maybe just go Rogue4/Fighter 9 by 13 for the feats (4/16 at level 20?)or maybe add cleric levels or something? Only multiclass restrictions are no PRC w/o DM permission. Thanks
Edited By OMGZERGRUSHWTF on 11/01/05 21:05
a 4rog/5barb/ftr is a good choice. It is alot more versatile than a plain fighter build. Of course I would advice you to take Human as a race, because it is difficult to advance as any other race, because of the experience penalty they recieve.
Start out as a rogue to get the maximum skill points at lvl 1. From that point on do what suits your style of play. My own suggestion would something along the lines of 2 rogue/4fighter to get weapon spec right away and of course gain the most feats in as little time possible. _________________ Be realistic...
Okay, one last thing. If I went for that rogue/fighter4/barb5, would expertise + rage work well together? Also would a scimitar/shield be more useful or maybe something like a Greataxe instead?
